other than the obvious ones such as 2wd and 4x4 and the wheels etc

whats the differences between the later 4x4's and the earlier 2wd's

i understand later 4x4's came with a different dash and air con? what else

also can you get saffs with black carpet? or is it always grey?

looking into getting one soon and wanna know whther to spend 3.5-4k on a 2wd, or go 5k and get a late 4x4 as it nicer inside?

are there any external differences other than the lights and the wheels?

cheers guys

rory

 

The early 4x4s with the older dash also have other differences to the 2wd.

The early 4x4s came with the older 2wd top half of dash but have the same lower half as the later 4x4s.

All 4x4s have petrol flap that is released from inside the car - no key. Also the boot lock is not a push in type on the 4x4s they are also released by either the key only or via a pull cord inside the car.

I dont think there's much else that differs.

 

Late 4x4s have electric sunroof also (which as a bit of an after thought from ford use the Mondeo style window switches!!!)

 

any pics of the dash? thought it was just the bit around the clocks that was different?

good news about the fuel cap, do the older 2wd's have the same as my escort, with the key in cap type afair?

cheers 4 the info

whats the jump from escort rs turbo to saff like , have driven one before but are they more refined, quiter, nicer to drive etc? looking forward to p/steering etc

 

The 4wds have a bigger glove box and a drivers pull down pocket. The 2wds have speaker grills - but I dont think there are any speakers behind them! Also the later saphs have a different centre heater vents and switch panel on the right hand side.

The ecus are in different places too, 2wds have them behind the top panel on the passenger side, 4wds have them located behind the glove box which you gain access to by dropping the glove box. So the 4wds come with a pocket rather than a blanking panel...

Pocket....


Panel...


Petrol caps...
4wd - flush fit release by cable inside car...


2wd flip open by hand and unluck screw cap with key (like rs turbos)...


Yup saphs are all of the above in terms of how they drive compared to the rs turbo. But because of this they lose their Rawness. Its kind of a natural progression though, I dont regret the money I spent on the rs turbo and I still love it, but at the same time I dont regret getting a saph and I very much doubt I would go back to an rs turbo now. The hard thing about a saph is making it standout without it looking crap - there's not much u can do with their looks.

 

Something else I just thought of, obviously the 2wds and 4wds have different gearboxes, which means the gear sticks are different too. This also means they use different gaitors, the 2wd has one similar to the standard rs turbo. The 4wds have the lose leather type as pictured.

 

Also another small thing I remembered! lol

The lower pocket in the center of the dash under the stereo is DIN size on the 4x4 dashes. But on the 2wds they're not.

 

Oh and the centre consoles are slightly different too!

Some come with blanking switches for heated seats, some dont. Also they come apart slightly differently too.

 

A couple more differences...

4x4 has heated washer jets
4x4 has a different shaped bonnet at the scuttle end
The 4x4 heater blower always runs, unless the right-hand knob is all the way down.
4x4's have small sapphire badges on the rear window plastics.

Facelift saphs (91) had single-colour rear spoilers (i.e. no black lip)

I'm sure there are loads more!

Neil.

 

so this would be an early 4x4 dash?




cos of the old style clock surround but new style glove box etc

very thorough thread

so does the saff. feel fast? my rst does, even if its not actually that fast

just looking forward to something a little more grown up, less wind noise, quiter comfier etc??

so the fuel cap is the only external difference between 2 and 4wd's??

 

What do you need to get these to come on? Turn on front or rear heated screen I presume?

 

1992 very late interior:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/06...gshotLarge.jpg

Carpets with leather are black.

 

Front.

 

more good info

 

Anal detail i know but the 2wd's have different front speaker grilles than 4wd........

 

Yup thats an early 4x4 dash. Its out of my early J Reg 4x4.

Feel fast? 2wds and 4wds feel totally different. Launches even in a standard 4x4 are fooking superb! But once they are going they're a bit sluggish compared to the 2wds and RS turbos. But a stage 3 conversion makes a hell of a difference.

2wds will always be quicker than 4wds of same power once they're moving. But a 4wd will handle better.

In a saph you need to be doing 150+ to get the feeling you do in a rs turbo at 130.

Its hard to compare cause the 2 cars are really very different. Some people have bought cossies and not looked back (like me) others have tried all the variations of cossie and gone back to rs turbos! (like gadget!)

You need to drive one! And do drive it! passenger rides dont give you anywhere near the idea of what its like in the drivers seat!

 

Ta

 

hmmm

dunno what i want now

maybe a late spec 4wd with a 2wd conversion

i can understand why the 4wd will be slower, but id it really noticeable?

used to love going for passenger rides in my mates old 2wd

dark greens, t34, about 25psi?......is this stage 3?

do like the leather though, been offered a few without, but really think i'm gonna hold out till i find exactly what i want.

essexboyracer, can you pm me with what you paid for yours, and what spec etc, so i know what i can expect for my money

One last point, if i had 6k to spend on a saff would it be too much to ask for one with no rust? just wondering, if they are out there for that money, or would a little around the arches etc be acceptable?

cheers

 

rory

do you still see Ray at all?? if so, whats he driving these days?

also, fair play for wanting a Saff..

 

seen him a few times

driving a company car nowadays, lost the bug since breaking his old RS years ago

was contemplating a sensible car, but have always wanted one (sapphire cosworth) , but if it costs too much, or pisses me off i'll just get rid

 

gingeRS you live in essex dont u?

Where abouts?

If you put a like for like 2wd against a 4wd you will see the 4wd suffer once the cars are rolling in a straight line. But dont forget a 4wd has the ability to lay down more power before the wheels break traction. (which also means they break easier!)

T34 is not part of a standard "stage 3" conversion on a saph, but obviously are on the big turbo esc coz.

I paid Ł5000 for mine, on 68k miles. Totally standard except for the wheels and suspension. Rot wise mine is pretty good thank god and nothing i've found that needs attention except for 2 scabs on the back panel under the lights where a disc lock kept in the boot slid back and dented the panel from the inside. This cracked the paint and its started to scab up, its got original panels but the sides have been painted again in the past and although it doesnt look bad, there are bits Im not happy with and will address later. Mechanically, it was fine except for a leaking rad and a few other little niggles that have been easy enough to sort. I feel I've got a good condition car that I paid a fair price for. hth

 

can always get rid if you do get pissed off

 

hmmm, sounds exactly what i'm looking for

gonna go see some as soon as the RS is sold

i'm in north london by the way

rory

 

2wd cars dont have bonnet vents! also the rear lights are tinted with a black centre panel on the later saffs,there ARE speakers behind the grilles on 2wd saff dash, 4x4 badges on the front wings( obviously!) different standard wheels on later cars(lattice on early cars,sharktooth on later ones), 2wds have better front brakes(4 pots),2wd box is nicer to drive,more positive on changes, different ecu(l6 on 2wd l8 on 4x4)2wd has a tubular manifold and smaller turbo(only just) 4x4 has a larger more efficient intercooler.shorter manifold and no need for a turbo damper, 4wd has the stronger 200 block engine with a different water pump(2 outlets on the front) radiator has different outlet positions. ill try think of some more,thats just off me head,didnt know how in depth you wanted it?

 

Good answer!

Also: Late 4x4 Saphs had the emissions friendly (83 US standard) green top engine with Lambada sensor on the turbo, plus knock sensor and cat.

 

early cars have a nice 3 spoke wheel that resembles a s1 rst wheel,late ones are the horrid std ford sierra crap wheel! 2wds run a 7.5 inch rear diff (4x4 is 7 inch), the heads are diffeent,as are the pistons(4x4s have an offset gudgeon pin to reduce piston slap which is common on 2wd engines,also if you fit 4x4 pistons to a 2wd engine you will acheive a cr of 7.8:1 instead of 8:1 ) the 2wd head has a mounting point fot the turbo hanger(dont know the rest of the differences but thee ARE some!) different tps (2wds run the opposite way around to 4x4,useful if fitting l8 to a 2wd car,swap the 2 outer wires on tps),4x4 standard injectors are dark blue,2wd ones are yellow( i believe they are near as dammit the same flow rate etc) obviously the sumps are different to allow for the front diff in a 4x4! early saffs(not ALL 2wds though) have a bayonet type cam cover oil filler cap aka the 3 door one,later cars hane a screw type cap. er.... ill keep thinking tell me if im getting carried away,i found a fair bit of the engine stuff while fitting a 4x4 engine to the 2wd saff i had

 

2wd front disc diameter:283mm,4x4:278,both have 273mm rear discs. getting technical now though! final drives:2wd 3.64:1 4x4 3.62:1, and a nice easy one,non technical:different sierra rs badges on the boot,early ones have the same font as the 3doors with a half cut style font,later ones a bit more boring on badge side right,think thats enough to go on!

 

4x4's had vented rear discs

 

nail, you say the blower always runs on 4x4s, what is it you do to stop it? mine is always running and its bloody annoying!

 

Neil, not Nail

Put the right hand side knob (direction) to the bottom stop.

or pull the fuse

Neil.

 

thanks ill try that in a minute

 

2wd thermostat is Ł7.00 from Fords and the 4wd one is Ł45.00 Different operating temp,2wd is 88 degrees and 4wd one is 82 degrees .Dont ask me why but it came as a shock to me when i went to buy one

 

more top information

looks like i'll be going for a 4x4 then i think

are there any drawbacks to having a cat, and lambda sensor etc? does the cat have to stay on to pass the mot?

cheers

 

Cat not needed even for MOT. Lambada can be bypassed by chip.

 

Cat normally required to pass the MOT test, although my software has passed without on a few occasions, dont bank on it.

 

didnt think '92 cars HAD to have a cat?

 

Never realisied this little lot before.