What foods? To lose weight and allow muscle build.
29-10-2005, 06:52 AM
#1
What foods? To lose weight and allow muscle build.
As topic really.
I need to lose fat and build muscle, im currently working out regularly but i believe there are certain foods i can eat that will maximise the possibilities of me achieving my goal as opposed to hindering it.
Any help greatly appreciated.
I need to lose fat and build muscle, im currently working out regularly but i believe there are certain foods i can eat that will maximise the possibilities of me achieving my goal as opposed to hindering it.
Any help greatly appreciated.
29-10-2005, 11:07 AM
#2
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Tuna, chicken etc Anything high protein and low carb really. You need carbs also though for energy. The first step is to think of what your goal is. If you want to be a 20 stone muscle man you have to eat like a 20 stone muscle man, if you want to just tone up and lose some pounds then the diet is totally different again.
Gets the ball rolling anyway doesnt it
Gets the ball rolling anyway doesnt it
29-10-2005, 11:11 AM
#3
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O and 6-8 meals a day is better than 2 big meals. I found that eating tortilla wraps instead of sandwiches helped. Also no crisps chocolate or alcohol helped me acheive what i wanted. I went from 106kg with a kite and general rubber ring to 110kg with muscle. So although i had put weight on i had lost a few % body fat
29-10-2005, 02:35 PM
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I'm going to come at this from a different angle.
Protein shakes.
Ah but arent they normaly associated with adding weight? I here you say!
I found that when suplementing my diet with Protein shakes, Id end up feeling full yet had'nt eaten much more than I'd regularly eat, I then had to eat smaller and more regular. This with the aim of adding weight.
If your burning energy rapid style, your bodys going to crave food.....if you then feed your body 'Protein' it will assist muscle strength growth development & recovery making you feel less hungry.......id have thought then cutting down on fat intake resulting in weight loss whilst assisting muscle growth.
hth
Protein shakes.
Ah but arent they normaly associated with adding weight? I here you say!
I found that when suplementing my diet with Protein shakes, Id end up feeling full yet had'nt eaten much more than I'd regularly eat, I then had to eat smaller and more regular. This with the aim of adding weight.
If your burning energy rapid style, your bodys going to crave food.....if you then feed your body 'Protein' it will assist muscle strength growth development & recovery making you feel less hungry.......id have thought then cutting down on fat intake resulting in weight loss whilst assisting muscle growth.
hth
29-10-2005, 02:48 PM
#5
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Stu, most food is absolutely fine, its more of a case of how it is prepared and what form it comes in.
Having your steak and chips is fine - as long the steak is lean and grilled, and the chips are low fat (5%) oven chips. I used to have this at least once a week.
Same with chicken, fish etc. These are all good high protein sources. A good piece of fish also contains the good fats, omega 3,6's etc.
I'm not trying to put anyweight on at the moment and this is my diet. I'm not really a breakfast person either.
6:00 1 pint skimmed milk
7:00 Get to work - Jacobs fruesli bar and a banana
9:00 Protein drink (50grams of powder mixed with water) 70% protein powder
12:00 - Lunch - Either Tuna (1 can) Sweetcorn(0.5 can) + Jacket spud(microwaved). I'm naughty and mix my tuna and sweetcorn with a dollop of full fat mayo
or I cook up 400gms of turkey in a stir fry with vegies, onions/peppers etc. I don't have any carbs with this. I cook this in the morning.
2:30 Other half of protein drink - Same as 9:00
5:00 Training
6:30 Evening meal - varies but is always based around turkey, lean mince, steak, chicken or salmon. No sauces except maybe some soya if stirfrying the turkey. Either with boiled potatoes, noodles, oven chips. Loads of veggies - brocolli, cauli, cabbage, mange tout, sugar snap peas, peas.
Or if I want something quick and easy we'll do pasta, with grated low fat cheese, tuna and sweetcorn. I cook a load so I can box it up for lunch the next day.
8-9 If I am hungry I may have some tuna.
At weekends I do have the odd beer, bottle of red and we like our curries and chinese.
As I am not actively trying to loose fat. I just make sure I keep my protein in take high over the weekend. I therefore don't feel too bad about letting the other things slip. It also keeps you sane. I would allow yourself a couple of transgressions during the week, but nothing major.
You also mentioned your caffine intake in the other thread. I like my coffee too. I probably have a couple of cups a day. It can be a good stimulus before your workout.
Not that you would want to try anything like this yet but there are tablets called eph based on caffine, asprin and ephidrine, and are designed to help burn fat. They aren't particularly legal but it goes to show that caffine can have a positive impact of stimulating the metabolism.
I also drink about 4-5 litres of water a day too.
Having your steak and chips is fine - as long the steak is lean and grilled, and the chips are low fat (5%) oven chips. I used to have this at least once a week.
Same with chicken, fish etc. These are all good high protein sources. A good piece of fish also contains the good fats, omega 3,6's etc.
I'm not trying to put anyweight on at the moment and this is my diet. I'm not really a breakfast person either.
6:00 1 pint skimmed milk
7:00 Get to work - Jacobs fruesli bar and a banana
9:00 Protein drink (50grams of powder mixed with water) 70% protein powder
12:00 - Lunch - Either Tuna (1 can) Sweetcorn(0.5 can) + Jacket spud(microwaved). I'm naughty and mix my tuna and sweetcorn with a dollop of full fat mayo
or I cook up 400gms of turkey in a stir fry with vegies, onions/peppers etc. I don't have any carbs with this. I cook this in the morning.
2:30 Other half of protein drink - Same as 9:00
5:00 Training
6:30 Evening meal - varies but is always based around turkey, lean mince, steak, chicken or salmon. No sauces except maybe some soya if stirfrying the turkey. Either with boiled potatoes, noodles, oven chips. Loads of veggies - brocolli, cauli, cabbage, mange tout, sugar snap peas, peas.
Or if I want something quick and easy we'll do pasta, with grated low fat cheese, tuna and sweetcorn. I cook a load so I can box it up for lunch the next day.
8-9 If I am hungry I may have some tuna.
At weekends I do have the odd beer, bottle of red and we like our curries and chinese.
As I am not actively trying to loose fat. I just make sure I keep my protein in take high over the weekend. I therefore don't feel too bad about letting the other things slip. It also keeps you sane. I would allow yourself a couple of transgressions during the week, but nothing major.
You also mentioned your caffine intake in the other thread. I like my coffee too. I probably have a couple of cups a day. It can be a good stimulus before your workout.
Not that you would want to try anything like this yet but there are tablets called eph based on caffine, asprin and ephidrine, and are designed to help burn fat. They aren't particularly legal but it goes to show that caffine can have a positive impact of stimulating the metabolism.
I also drink about 4-5 litres of water a day too.
30-10-2005, 06:01 PM
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Hi Stu,
Try stacking some Tribulus Terrestris capsules about an hour before you work out, they are fantastic at increasing muscle mass after working out. Take it everyday but only stack it on days where you are doing your weights. Also, make sure you don't do your weight training everyday, always allow a recovery period after training.
For example, do weights one day and rest the next, do weights for 2 days then rest for 2 etc. Keep a journal and always compare your performances - this is really important!
Don't eat after a designated time ( I don't eat after 8pm ), and if you get hungry just drink a glass of water, this will aid your body in burning fat while you sleep (the easiest workout of all lol!).
Hope this all helps - if you need any help with working out a weights exercise regime let me know, I have a few that I use with excellent results!
Best Wishes
Craig
Try stacking some Tribulus Terrestris capsules about an hour before you work out, they are fantastic at increasing muscle mass after working out. Take it everyday but only stack it on days where you are doing your weights. Also, make sure you don't do your weight training everyday, always allow a recovery period after training.
For example, do weights one day and rest the next, do weights for 2 days then rest for 2 etc. Keep a journal and always compare your performances - this is really important!
Don't eat after a designated time ( I don't eat after 8pm ), and if you get hungry just drink a glass of water, this will aid your body in burning fat while you sleep (the easiest workout of all lol!).
Hope this all helps - if you need any help with working out a weights exercise regime let me know, I have a few that I use with excellent results!
Best Wishes
Craig
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31-10-2005, 10:20 AM
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It is hard as Paul would agree to loose fat and build muscle at the same time but this is a good guide for some.
Do cardio on alternate days to your weight training.
Cardio is done in the morning on an empty stomach for 30-40mins at 70-80% of your maximum heart rate. Example How to work it out for a Male 220 minus your age35=185x70%=129
220 minus your age35=185x80%=148 So between 130 & 148 for fat burning.
This burns more fat because the body is depleted of carbs from you overnight fasting i.e the majority of fuel source burned on an empty stomach in the morning is from FAT.
Have a stong cup of coffee 30min before with no milk or sugar as this will blunt the effect of releasing fatty deposits.
45 mins after cardio have your first meal...as Paul stated you need an idea of the calories you consume to loose fat i.e you need to consume less calories than you burn to burn fat, but you must eat to keep you matabolism going which burns the calories. As if you want to add muscle you need to eat more calories than you burn! get it.
Simple method to start with is your weight in stone say...11stonex14=154lbsx10=1540calories a day. to loose FAT. or x15-17 to add muscle.
To break it down this is to loose fat. "to build you would need more carbs"
Protein 1540 x 50%=770calories divided by 4 =192.5g per day
Carbs 1540 x 35%=539calories divided by 4 =134g per day
Fat 1540 x 15%=231calories divided by 9 =25g per day
Split the above in to 6 small meals a day.
If you have a good idea of what you are putting in your mouth the results will be two fold. Fact! "Flat tummy's and six packs are made in the kitchen"
Good Protein Sources.
Chicken, Turkey, Egg Whites, Lean Beef, Whey, Cottage Cheese, Salmon, Tuna, Natural Yoghurt
Good Carb Sources.
Oats, Bran Flakes, Wholemeal Pitta, Burgen, Brown Pasta, Brown Rice, Banana, Apple, Kiwi, Orange, Peach
Good Fat Sources.
Peanut Butter, Fish Oils, Flax, Nuts, Extra Virgin Olive Oil & Blends.
Beware that there are 9calories to 1g of FAT. Only 4 for Protein & carbs.
Reduce saturated fat as much as possible..i.e cakes, biscuits etc.
Try and eat low glycemic foods while stripping the FAT which will keep insulin levels low which can promote fat storage when raised. Beware most ready meals are high glycemic!!
Sample Meal for cardio day
6.30. Coffee & Multi vitamin-mineral tablet.
7.00. Cardio
8.30. 40g Oats, 1 Banana, Protein Shake made with water and 1 tblspoon oil in your shake or 6 egg white omellet instead of the shake.
11.00. Wholemeal Pitta bread fill with half tub cattage cheese, 1 chicken breast, salad, 1 tblspoon oil. "Cut in half and eat one half.
1.30. Eat the other half of the Pitta above.
Now we start cutting the carbs later in the day.
4.00. 4 boiled eggs....only eat one of the yokes.
6.30. Salmon Fillet with half tin mixed beans & loads of veg...i.e Brocolli, Salad up to you add 1 oil.
9.00. 3rd tub cottage cheese with whey blended in a blender or 6 egg white omellet, or "100g Natural Yoghurt with whey added".
Drink plenty of water throughout the day.
If using a protein shake before bed you need one containing Casein "this is a slow releasing protein which will keep feeding your muscles throughout the night where as Whey protein is a fast digesting protein good after your weight training.
On weight training days keep the workout short and sharp 45mins with 30secs rest between each set. With less rest period you will be burning more calories.
If you must do a bit of cardio do this after your weight session. The reason for this is because you will have lowered you glycogen levels from the weight session and will burn a little more fat due to this....but no more than 15-20 mins or you will be burning muscle proteins.
After you weight session you need to replace the lost glycogen stores by consuming simple carbs. By doing this you will raise your insulin levels which will help shuttle the protein into the boodstream to repair those muscles.
A good example is
500ml water, 4tblpsoons of honey, 1.5 scoop whey or
500ml water 2 bananas, 1.5 scoop whey or
Bowl of corn flakes with skim milk and Whey in water.
"Yes Corn flakes are high on the glycemic index!"
This must be consumed with in the 45min window for maximum results.
If you consume just a Protein shake after your workout This is incorrect. The body will break down the protein to replace lost glycogen stores and will not BE USED to repair the muscles. This is why we add simple carbs as above i.e banana, honey or corn flakes or anything high on the glycemic index which will do the job of replacing the glycogen stores leaving the Protein to build muscle. "Glycogen is your stored fuel source mainly from carbs you have eaten".
Hope the above helps some of you, it may sound in depth to some but it gets the results and will change your body shape for the better. This is just a little info to get the FAT ball rolling and there is much more, just keep it simple and be consistent and yes have your treat day to keep you sane!
Do cardio on alternate days to your weight training.
Cardio is done in the morning on an empty stomach for 30-40mins at 70-80% of your maximum heart rate. Example How to work it out for a Male 220 minus your age35=185x70%=129
220 minus your age35=185x80%=148 So between 130 & 148 for fat burning.
This burns more fat because the body is depleted of carbs from you overnight fasting i.e the majority of fuel source burned on an empty stomach in the morning is from FAT.
Have a stong cup of coffee 30min before with no milk or sugar as this will blunt the effect of releasing fatty deposits.
45 mins after cardio have your first meal...as Paul stated you need an idea of the calories you consume to loose fat i.e you need to consume less calories than you burn to burn fat, but you must eat to keep you matabolism going which burns the calories. As if you want to add muscle you need to eat more calories than you burn! get it.
Simple method to start with is your weight in stone say...11stonex14=154lbsx10=1540calories a day. to loose FAT. or x15-17 to add muscle.
To break it down this is to loose fat. "to build you would need more carbs"
Protein 1540 x 50%=770calories divided by 4 =192.5g per day
Carbs 1540 x 35%=539calories divided by 4 =134g per day
Fat 1540 x 15%=231calories divided by 9 =25g per day
Split the above in to 6 small meals a day.
If you have a good idea of what you are putting in your mouth the results will be two fold. Fact! "Flat tummy's and six packs are made in the kitchen"
Good Protein Sources.
Chicken, Turkey, Egg Whites, Lean Beef, Whey, Cottage Cheese, Salmon, Tuna, Natural Yoghurt
Good Carb Sources.
Oats, Bran Flakes, Wholemeal Pitta, Burgen, Brown Pasta, Brown Rice, Banana, Apple, Kiwi, Orange, Peach
Good Fat Sources.
Peanut Butter, Fish Oils, Flax, Nuts, Extra Virgin Olive Oil & Blends.
Beware that there are 9calories to 1g of FAT. Only 4 for Protein & carbs.
Reduce saturated fat as much as possible..i.e cakes, biscuits etc.
Try and eat low glycemic foods while stripping the FAT which will keep insulin levels low which can promote fat storage when raised. Beware most ready meals are high glycemic!!
Sample Meal for cardio day
6.30. Coffee & Multi vitamin-mineral tablet.
7.00. Cardio
8.30. 40g Oats, 1 Banana, Protein Shake made with water and 1 tblspoon oil in your shake or 6 egg white omellet instead of the shake.
11.00. Wholemeal Pitta bread fill with half tub cattage cheese, 1 chicken breast, salad, 1 tblspoon oil. "Cut in half and eat one half.
1.30. Eat the other half of the Pitta above.
Now we start cutting the carbs later in the day.
4.00. 4 boiled eggs....only eat one of the yokes.
6.30. Salmon Fillet with half tin mixed beans & loads of veg...i.e Brocolli, Salad up to you add 1 oil.
9.00. 3rd tub cottage cheese with whey blended in a blender or 6 egg white omellet, or "100g Natural Yoghurt with whey added".
Drink plenty of water throughout the day.
If using a protein shake before bed you need one containing Casein "this is a slow releasing protein which will keep feeding your muscles throughout the night where as Whey protein is a fast digesting protein good after your weight training.
On weight training days keep the workout short and sharp 45mins with 30secs rest between each set. With less rest period you will be burning more calories.
If you must do a bit of cardio do this after your weight session. The reason for this is because you will have lowered you glycogen levels from the weight session and will burn a little more fat due to this....but no more than 15-20 mins or you will be burning muscle proteins.
After you weight session you need to replace the lost glycogen stores by consuming simple carbs. By doing this you will raise your insulin levels which will help shuttle the protein into the boodstream to repair those muscles.
A good example is
500ml water, 4tblpsoons of honey, 1.5 scoop whey or
500ml water 2 bananas, 1.5 scoop whey or
Bowl of corn flakes with skim milk and Whey in water.
"Yes Corn flakes are high on the glycemic index!"
This must be consumed with in the 45min window for maximum results.
If you consume just a Protein shake after your workout This is incorrect. The body will break down the protein to replace lost glycogen stores and will not BE USED to repair the muscles. This is why we add simple carbs as above i.e banana, honey or corn flakes or anything high on the glycemic index which will do the job of replacing the glycogen stores leaving the Protein to build muscle. "Glycogen is your stored fuel source mainly from carbs you have eaten".
Hope the above helps some of you, it may sound in depth to some but it gets the results and will change your body shape for the better. This is just a little info to get the FAT ball rolling and there is much more, just keep it simple and be consistent and yes have your treat day to keep you sane!
31-10-2005, 10:46 AM
#11
Originally Posted by RSPTG
Stu, the food is as important as the training you do if you want the results.
31-10-2005, 01:31 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by RSPTG
Stu, the food is as important as the training you do if you want the results.
01-11-2005, 10:06 PM
#13
Thanks Paul, heres an update:
Ive binned my usual club sandwich / bacon sarnie lunch order and ordered the following:
Breakfast every day:
1 bowl of cornflakes with no sugar:
1 glass of orange juice.
Mon wed fri:
Large baked potato with tuna mayo.
Tue Thur:
Salad bowl with double chicken or beef.
Teat Times still vary but im almost free of my usual high fat garbage.
It may not sound much, but its a big change for me and im hoping to feel some improvements to spur me on.
Incidentally: I take vitamins every day, unsure if they will help or not but i figure they cant hurt??
1000mg Cod liver oil.
1000mg super multi vitamin.
500mg L-Carnatine.
1000mg B100 complex.
Any comments at all from peeps in the know, especially with regards supplements that may be worthwhile?
Ive binned my usual club sandwich / bacon sarnie lunch order and ordered the following:
Breakfast every day:
1 bowl of cornflakes with no sugar:
1 glass of orange juice.
Mon wed fri:
Large baked potato with tuna mayo.
Tue Thur:
Salad bowl with double chicken or beef.
Teat Times still vary but im almost free of my usual high fat garbage.
It may not sound much, but its a big change for me and im hoping to feel some improvements to spur me on.
Incidentally: I take vitamins every day, unsure if they will help or not but i figure they cant hurt??
1000mg Cod liver oil.
1000mg super multi vitamin.
500mg L-Carnatine.
1000mg B100 complex.
Any comments at all from peeps in the know, especially with regards supplements that may be worthwhile?
02-11-2005, 01:03 AM
#14
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Thats a great step forward Stu 
I take a multi vitamin and cod liver tablet too. I also take a vitamin c tablet as this helpes the immune system and is also meant to help process protein.
I personally have never taken L-Carnatine so cannot comment on its effectiveness.
I take a multi vitamin and cod liver tablet too. I also take a vitamin c tablet as this helpes the immune system and is also meant to help process protein.
I personally have never taken L-Carnatine so cannot comment on its effectiveness.
02-11-2005, 07:59 AM
#15
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good for u, mens health magazine i find usefull as well, lots of tips in there as well as training programs so u dont get bored.
i also use `Thermobol` from maximuscle, one of the few things that works, and like others hav said multi-vits.
i also use `Thermobol` from maximuscle, one of the few things that works, and like others hav said multi-vits.
08-11-2005, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Thanks Paul, heres an update:
Ive binned my usual club sandwich / bacon sarnie lunch order and ordered the following:
Breakfast every day:
1 bowl of cornflakes with no sugar:
1 glass of orange juice.
Mon wed fri:
Large baked potato with tuna mayo.
Tue Thur:
Salad bowl with double chicken or beef.
Teat Times still vary but im almost free of my usual high fat garbage.
It may not sound much, but its a big change for me and im hoping to feel some improvements to spur me on.
Incidentally: I take vitamins every day, unsure if they will help or not but i figure they cant hurt??
1000mg Cod liver oil.
1000mg super multi vitamin.
500mg L-Carnatine.
1000mg B100 complex.
Any comments at all from peeps in the know, especially with regards supplements that may be worthwhile?
Ive binned my usual club sandwich / bacon sarnie lunch order and ordered the following:
Breakfast every day:
1 bowl of cornflakes with no sugar:
1 glass of orange juice.
Mon wed fri:
Large baked potato with tuna mayo.
Tue Thur:
Salad bowl with double chicken or beef.
Teat Times still vary but im almost free of my usual high fat garbage.
It may not sound much, but its a big change for me and im hoping to feel some improvements to spur me on.
Incidentally: I take vitamins every day, unsure if they will help or not but i figure they cant hurt??
1000mg Cod liver oil.
1000mg super multi vitamin.
500mg L-Carnatine.
1000mg B100 complex.
Any comments at all from peeps in the know, especially with regards supplements that may be worthwhile?
That's a good start Stu, and don't get to hung up on the supplement thing.
What you have at the moment is fine but if I was being picky I would exchange the cornflakes for Bran/Shreddedweat or Wheetabix.. just a suggestion though and yes everyone should take a multi vit-mineral tab everyday. Just by cleaning up the diet and a bit of exercise will get you some results...remember keep it simple and small meals throughout the day is the way to go.
Hows it all going anyway?
23-11-2005, 07:58 AM
#17
Sorry Paul, missed this post of yours...
Its going quite well, im not missing the crap i used to eat between meals as much as i expected to, ive dropped my 2 sugars in each tea (I drink LOTS of tea) down to one sweetner and ive changed my workout to reflect the advice given in this forum and it feels better, it hurts like i would expect it should
Problem is, due to bad lower back trouble im having to lose some weight fast and feel my diet may be a problem, but theres another topic all about that......
Thanks for all your help so far.
Its going quite well, im not missing the crap i used to eat between meals as much as i expected to, ive dropped my 2 sugars in each tea (I drink LOTS of tea) down to one sweetner and ive changed my workout to reflect the advice given in this forum and it feels better, it hurts like i would expect it should
Problem is, due to bad lower back trouble im having to lose some weight fast and feel my diet may be a problem, but theres another topic all about that......
Thanks for all your help so far.
25-11-2005, 08:36 AM
#19
My ONLY problem is Motivation on these cold days. My bench and weights are in the conservatory, and its wierd training at 7:30am after a 30min walk in the pissin down rain with the rain hammering down on the roof and windows while your train, and when you get home its hard to push myself back out into the rain and cold.
That said... i have not missed a planned session yet, so im doing ok i guess.
This has given me an idea for another topic.....
That said... i have not missed a planned session yet, so im doing ok i guess.
This has given me an idea for another topic.....
13-01-2006, 02:17 AM
#21
The motivation is a hard one
The best advice I can give you for this is get yourself a small mp3 player and put some songs on it that get you hyped up.
Alot of the time when I go for runs I go on my own. An Mp3 player really gets me into it and I knock quite a bit of time off the set route listening to music.
Plenty of sleep is very important as that's you recovery time.
Warming up properly is very important to get the best benefit and to prevent injuries.
Stretching off will can make a massive difference to how you feel the next morning.
I personally prefer to exercise in the evening as I know my day of work is finished and I can relax afterwards.
As said above eating late at night is a big no no as your body stops digesting food and it'll just sit on your gut, probably giving you an unsettled sleep too.
Hope some of this helps Stu
The best advice I can give you for this is get yourself a small mp3 player and put some songs on it that get you hyped up.
Alot of the time when I go for runs I go on my own. An Mp3 player really gets me into it and I knock quite a bit of time off the set route listening to music.
Plenty of sleep is very important as that's you recovery time.
Warming up properly is very important to get the best benefit and to prevent injuries.
Stretching off will can make a massive difference to how you feel the next morning.
I personally prefer to exercise in the evening as I know my day of work is finished and I can relax afterwards.
As said above eating late at night is a big no no as your body stops digesting food and it'll just sit on your gut, probably giving you an unsettled sleep too.
Hope some of this helps Stu
13-01-2006, 09:42 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by Cliff S1
As said above eating late at night is a big no no as your body stops digesting food and it'll just sit on your gut, probably giving you an unsettled sleep too.
Hope some of this helps Stu
We spend a good amount of time sleeping and your muscles still require nutrients to build muscle after intense training. If the average person gets 8 hours of sleep this is a long time for the body to go with out food! You wouldn't want to miss out on building while you are sleeping and this will keep you in an anti catabolic state and limit muscle breakdown. A lot of people put some form of protein into the system 30mins before bed for a steady release during the night, be it a shake with milk, Casein Shake, cottage cheese or other form.
Just a little Food for thought
13-01-2006, 10:29 AM
#23
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I make a shake where I have half before bed and the other half as soon as I get up. Makes a huge difference to recovery.
I try not to have anything solid past 7pm
I try not to have anything solid past 7pm
13-01-2006, 11:23 AM
#25
Originally Posted by Paul Eggleton
I make a shake where I have half before bed and the other half as soon as I get up. Makes a huge difference to recovery.
I try not to have anything solid past 7pm
I try not to have anything solid past 7pm
I currently have one in the morning, sometimes one after lunch, and one with my tea after training.
13-01-2006, 12:38 PM
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so what would some one like me who is 18.5 stone 6'2 just starting to go to gym again after 5 years look to eat so i can get into shape aswell as build muscle i understand that if im trying to loose weight then im not going to be able to build as much muscle so what would be the best weight to start building muscle and stop dieting? im lost lol
13-01-2006, 02:02 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by Paul Eggleton
I make a shake where I have half before bed and the other half as soon as I get up. Makes a huge difference to recovery.
I try not to have anything solid past 7pm
I try not to have anything solid past 7pm
I currently have one in the morning, sometimes one after lunch, and one with my tea after training.
you are fine with what you have and what has been worked out for you. I was just pointing out that there is reason to eat before bed under some circumstances, as Cliff stated ""it's a big no no to eat before bed"".....which isn't an entirely correct statement.
For building, yes you would fit that shake in before bed, but eating at 8pm as on your need help post for ""loosing the fat"" then you do not need it as the calories have been worked out for you. If how ever you are loosing more than 2-3lbs a week then you could put the extra shake in to up the calories instead of altering another meal.
Just see how it all goes first or you will be upping the calories and this could hamper your results. Remember your calories and plan is not a building one! you wanted to loose.
13-01-2006, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by fords4fun
so what would some one like me who is 18.5 stone 6'2 just starting to go to gym again after 5 years look to eat so i can get into shape aswell as build muscle i understand that if im trying to loose weight then im not going to be able to build as much muscle so what would be the best weight to start building muscle and stop dieting? im lost lol
As for best weight then no-one can answer that. We are all built differently and its about how you perceive yourself at a certain weight. If I was to step on the electronic scales in Boots it would probably tell me I was overweight but it cannot see muscle or general build. You know your own structure, personally I would be guided by weight, more about how I looked.
13-01-2006, 08:57 PM
#29
Originally Posted by RSPTG
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by Paul Eggleton
I make a shake where I have half before bed and the other half as soon as I get up. Makes a huge difference to recovery.
I try not to have anything solid past 7pm
I try not to have anything solid past 7pm
I currently have one in the morning, sometimes one after lunch, and one with my tea after training.
you are fine with what you have and what has been worked out for you. I was just pointing out that there is reason to eat before bed under some circumstances, as Cliff stated ""it's a big no no to eat before bed"".....which isn't an entirely correct statement.
Makes a huge difference to recovery.
14-01-2006, 08:52 AM
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Stu, I think you will still get the pain, it should just disappear quicker with the extra protein.
I also used to take Glutamine(an amino acid of which there are 22 which make up protein) in powder form. This helped recovery too. Could be a substitute for a drink.
YOu can also get amino acid tablets which are primarily used to keep you in an anabolic state between meals, but I don't here of many people taking them any more. You could try these before bedtime.
I also used to take Glutamine(an amino acid of which there are 22 which make up protein) in powder form. This helped recovery too. Could be a substitute for a drink.
YOu can also get amino acid tablets which are primarily used to keep you in an anabolic state between meals, but I don't here of many people taking them any more. You could try these before bedtime.
14-01-2006, 09:02 AM
#31
So is this pain pretty normal Paul(s)?
I used to ache when i was younger and did weight training regularly, but this is more painfull, especially the shoulders, although i am definately pushing myself harder than i ever used to.
I used to ache when i was younger and did weight training regularly, but this is more painfull, especially the shoulders, although i am definately pushing myself harder than i ever used to.
14-01-2006, 05:42 PM
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Is it numb, aching pain or slightly sharper stabing pains as if its a nerve.
What is your warmup like, do you do enough of the lighter weights first, plus a bit of stretching. I know that if I don't warm up enough I get a bit more joint pain.
Very similar scenario as thrashing a car from cold
What is your warmup like, do you do enough of the lighter weights first, plus a bit of stretching. I know that if I don't warm up enough I get a bit more joint pain.
Very similar scenario as thrashing a car from cold
14-01-2006, 06:01 PM
#33
Hmmm...by warmups i guess you are suggesting i shouldnt walk in teh Gym, do 10mins on the bike then go straight to my max weights as i do now? 
The pain is kind of a permanent ache, that aches more if i use the shoulder in wierd angles, like sleeping with my head on my arms etc...
The pain is kind of a permanent ache, that aches more if i use the shoulder in wierd angles, like sleeping with my head on my arms etc...
14-01-2006, 07:51 PM
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OK, no you shouldn't jump straight into you 'working' weight. THere is a well known training term called pyramiding, which is what you should do at least on the way up e.g.
1st set: 12 x 50% of working weight (maybe do this twice)
2nd set: 10 x 75% of working weight
3rd set: 8 x working weight
4th set 8 x working weight
5th set: 8 x 75% of working weight
6th set: 10 x 50% of working weight
THere are variations to this, for instance I would do 2 x 12 x 50% on my first exercise for a muscle just to make sure (assuming you do more than one exercise for each muscle group) its warm. On subsequent exercises for that muscle group I would do just one lighter set to get into the groove and then go onto my working weight.
However, depending on what suits you if you do the above for each exercise you could spend hours in the gym and do 20 odd sets for each muscle group. I can't train like this so once I get to my working weight set I will either do a 'drop set' or used 'forced' reps e,g.
1st set: 12 x 50% of working weight (maybe do this twice)
2nd set: 10 x 75% of working weight
3rd set(drop set): 8 x working weight + 8 x 75% of working weight + 8 x 50% of working weight
The final set is an all out ball breaker with no rest in between. If you have a helper/spotter they can strip the weights off while you keep hold of the bar.
With forced reps your working set might be as follows
3rd set(drop set): 8 x working weight +2 forced reps
Forced reps are when your helper/spotter aids you with the lift to help you squeeze out an extra couple of reps. You can also do 'negatives' where your helper/spotter will help you lift the bar, but you control it on the way down (ish )
But don't get in to the trap of putting too much weight on and your spotter ends up doing all the work. I see this a lot where the ego is bigger than the muscles. Its the same with half movements - do not do them! I have seen 12 stone blokes put 400lbs on the bar and try and do squats. THey move 2 inches up and down and think they have achieved something. Not only is it bollocks, its also very dangerous as they only have to go another inch lower and they will hit the floor as they don't have the sdtrength in the full range of motion.
Got off topic a bit there but you should do a couple of lighter sets first combined with a bit of streching to warm the muscles up. Also warm up the ancillary muscles for example, if training chest, warm up the shoulders and triceps. If working back, warm up the biceps.
The other think to note is the angle. I personally do not get on with flat bench as it aggrevates the rotar cuff tendon in my shoulder, so I always run a slight incline on the bench. Also if it hurts with a barbell it maybe fine with a dumbell so experiment with angles and different bars.
1st set: 12 x 50% of working weight (maybe do this twice)
2nd set: 10 x 75% of working weight
3rd set: 8 x working weight
4th set 8 x working weight
5th set: 8 x 75% of working weight
6th set: 10 x 50% of working weight
THere are variations to this, for instance I would do 2 x 12 x 50% on my first exercise for a muscle just to make sure (assuming you do more than one exercise for each muscle group) its warm. On subsequent exercises for that muscle group I would do just one lighter set to get into the groove and then go onto my working weight.
However, depending on what suits you if you do the above for each exercise you could spend hours in the gym and do 20 odd sets for each muscle group. I can't train like this so once I get to my working weight set I will either do a 'drop set' or used 'forced' reps e,g.
1st set: 12 x 50% of working weight (maybe do this twice)
2nd set: 10 x 75% of working weight
3rd set(drop set): 8 x working weight + 8 x 75% of working weight + 8 x 50% of working weight
The final set is an all out ball breaker with no rest in between. If you have a helper/spotter they can strip the weights off while you keep hold of the bar.
With forced reps your working set might be as follows
3rd set(drop set): 8 x working weight +2 forced reps
Forced reps are when your helper/spotter aids you with the lift to help you squeeze out an extra couple of reps. You can also do 'negatives' where your helper/spotter will help you lift the bar, but you control it on the way down (ish
)But don't get in to the trap of putting too much weight on and your spotter ends up doing all the work. I see this a lot where the ego is bigger than the muscles. Its the same with half movements - do not do them! I have seen 12 stone blokes put 400lbs on the bar and try and do squats. THey move 2 inches up and down and think they have achieved something. Not only is it bollocks, its also very dangerous as they only have to go another inch lower and they will hit the floor as they don't have the sdtrength in the full range of motion.
Got off topic a bit there but you should do a couple of lighter sets first combined with a bit of streching to warm the muscles up. Also warm up the ancillary muscles for example, if training chest, warm up the shoulders and triceps. If working back, warm up the biceps.
The other think to note is the angle. I personally do not get on with flat bench as it aggrevates the rotar cuff tendon in my shoulder, so I always run a slight incline on the bench. Also if it hurts with a barbell it maybe fine with a dumbell so experiment with angles and different bars.
14-01-2006, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Hmmm...by warmups i guess you are suggesting i shouldnt walk in the Gym, do 10mins on the bike then go straight to my max weights as i do now?
The pain is kind of a permanent ache, that aches more if i use the shoulder in wierd angles, like sleeping with my head on my arms etc...
The pain is kind of a permanent ache, that aches more if i use the shoulder in wierd angles, like sleeping with my head on my arms etc...
15-01-2006, 12:17 PM
#37
Ok, that all makes sense Paul, many thanks again
Just to clarify, the working sets, are they done to failure and that is why you then run weights that are lower as per your example in the 3rd set:
Are we doing 75% and 50% simply because we CANT lift anymore? Or is it some kind of cool down excersize?
Im sure it will make more sense when ive actually tried it tomorrow night
Just to clarify, the working sets, are they done to failure and that is why you then run weights that are lower as per your example in the 3rd set:
1st set: 12 x 50% of working weight (maybe do this twice)
2nd set: 10 x 75% of working weight
3rd set(drop set): 8 x working weight + 8 x 75% of working weight + 8 x 50% of working weight
2nd set: 10 x 75% of working weight
3rd set(drop set): 8 x working weight + 8 x 75% of working weight + 8 x 50% of working weight
Im sure it will make more sense when ive actually tried it tomorrow night
15-01-2006, 12:33 PM
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Stu, It not a warm down but a very very good way to fatigue the muscle. By doing max weights for a couple or three sets you lift all you can but cannot sustain this for any more sets for the reps you require. Therefore as your muscles are already tired you drop the weight to allow another decent repped set.
If you are pushing yourself 100% on the heavy sets you will certainly understand once you drop the weights for a couple more goes.
I also like doing this as the muscles will get a burn as apposed to a pump.
If you are pushing yourself 100% on the heavy sets you will certainly understand once you drop the weights for a couple more goes.
I also like doing this as the muscles will get a burn as apposed to a pump.
15-01-2006, 12:40 PM
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No Stu it isn't a warmdown. When you try it you will see its actually the opposite. Its a method of making sure the muscle is absolutely fecked from that exercise, meaning you don't have to repeat the working weight sets 2 or 3 times.
This is the difference between intense training and that where you keep plodding away with the same weight for 4 or 5 sets.
I expect once you get to the 50% weight, your muscles will be screaming
So yes, go to failure on your working weight - drop the weight immediately to 75% and start lifting again - go to failure again - and then drop the weight to 50% and carry on to failure.
Essentially this means you go to failure 3 times in one set
This is the difference between intense training and that where you keep plodding away with the same weight for 4 or 5 sets.
I expect once you get to the 50% weight, your muscles will be screaming
So yes, go to failure on your working weight - drop the weight immediately to 75% and start lifting again - go to failure again - and then drop the weight to 50% and carry on to failure.
Essentially this means you go to failure 3 times in one set
