Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

We all know that to repair and improve we need to be taking in lots of protein, but my question's for the moment are these:

How much?

How do we know when our intake is correct?

Does it vary according to training?

If we dont have enough, what happens?

If we have too much, what happens?

Discuss

Paul Eggleton

Stu, the rule of thumb is 1-1.5 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight each day

For heavy training I would always go for 1.5grams, but if you are into general fitness and go to the gym regularly doing circuits etc then 1 gram will suffice.

So for you I'd go for over 1 gram and try for 1.5. You then need to split this up so you get no more than 30-35 grams every 2-3 hours.

Paul.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

So i need 257 grams per day

Is it acceptable to take the bulk of these from Whey protein shakes?

What technically would happen if i took, say: 150?


What technically would happen if i took, say: 450?

Soprry to be a pain

DaveEscos

Im currently taking

1.5 scps AM


2 scps PWO

2 scps 6pm


1 scp of casein peptide before bed

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

I have 4 shakes a day, but that only equates to 100grams so i need to process another 157 through my normal foods which i reckon is VERY unlikely given my current Diet, so im wondering what will have been the result of me not consuming enough?

RSPTG

Weight training as you do,,,,..

v.slow gains if any, less repair and can lead to catabolism Stu.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Just realised, i actually need:

107kg = 235.4lb x 1.5 = 353 grams per day

Fook, whats the best and easiest intake? More Whey? is it safe to do it that way?

Paul Eggleton

Stu, you need at least 1 gram, ideally 1.5 grams so don't beat yorself up if you don't make 1.5grams each day.

On a good day I get through upto 300grams of 90+ protein powder which is 270 ish grams

My meals at lunchtime and in the evening are high protein too. At least 30 grams so this will take me into the 330gram range. I'll also get some through breakfast and other foods.

This is why protein drinks were invented, because you'd never leave the dinner table if you had to take it all in food form.

What are your proper meals like. Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner?

RSPTG

Few ideas Stu to up ya protein intake....best to get what you can from real foods.

Whey
MR
Chicken
Fish
Cottage Cheese
Egg Whites
Prawns
Tuna
Turkey
Lean Beef
Peanut Butter
Skim Milk
Yoghurt
Low Fat Cheese
Walnuts

I also snack on Protein Bars, my current ones are;


100g Peanut Butter
60g Oats
6 Egg Whites
3 Scoops Choc Whey
2 Tblspoons Cocoa Powder
Half jar Apple Sauce

Add PB & Microwave for 20sec
add oats and egg whites and mix together
add applesauce and cocoa and mix
add 1 whey and mix, add another then mix, add third and mix

Get 8"x8" baking tray and coat with 0% cooking spray and add above contents.
Cook at 160 for 8mins, turn and cook for another 8mins.

Cut into 8 bars

Protein =16g - Carbs=10g - Fat=7g (most is poly and mono so good fats!)

You could always alter the ratios to meet your needs....more oats or more egg whites, up to you.

Hope that helps Stu.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Thanks very much guys

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Morning.
2 weetabix or shredded weat with ss milk.
1 whey protein drink (25g)

Mid Morning.
Oat Bar and bacon butty.

Dinner
Large jacket spud with a LOT of tuna mayo.
whey protein drink. (25g)

Mid Afternoon:
Banana

Before Training.
Packet of BM turkey. 200g
Creatine

After Training.
Whey Protein drink (25g)

Tea:
chicken breasts or beef
pasta
peas etc

Bedtime:
Whey Protein drink. (25g)

Approx 10 cups of caffeine free tea and coffee through the day.

Comments?

DaveEscos

Is the bacon buttie really needed Stu?

also can you change brekkie to say Oats and water.. maybee with some chopped almonds/banana in?

maybe a teaspoon of peanut butter for snacks/evening?

If you're trying to lose some weight.. get rid of the creatine imo!

Paul Eggleton

I'd move the lunch time protein drink to mid afternoon, as you will be getting your protein from the tuna.

You could also increase the amount of protein powder, double it infact.

Paul.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Your just jealous
More seriously, i dont really see it as an issue with my current 6 day routine im aiming to bulk and tone as fast as possible, not lose weight just yet as ive decided to wait until i pleateu and then hit my Atkins diet for a month and see what happens.


Possibly, what would be the benefits from oats?


I love peanut butter and keep forgetting to buy some, will do so tonight.

Thanks for the input

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Will do so starting today paul, thanks

DaveEscos

you got that right!!


aah, ok cool.. i thought you wanted to shred a bit




A complex carb storer.. a nice slower release through out the day. Although Im not sure whats in shredded wheat.. probably just oats


yes, get the natual type.. not the sunpat shot

you can get organic natural peanut butters with 96-98% peanut content

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Really? Somewhere like Tesco yeah? Or do i have to do a healthfood store?

DaveEscos

hang on, ill email the doris... she does all my shopping

DaveEscos

women.. gotta love em!

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Cheers Dave, il call in Morrisons tonight on way home for a few supplies

RSPTG

Some one say, Peanut Butter..........get ya apron on boy .........

you can get them bars made now Stu....lovely jubleeeey

FAST AS FORD

If you get proper peanut butter form a health food shop it will be 100%
Tastes far better too, can be quite pricey tho (maybe Ł1.50ish for 200g), so if you eat loads of it, like me, then tescos own make (NOT THE LOW-FAT ONE ) are 95% with the remainder being brown sugar, sea salt and oil and only 87p for 454g

FAST AS FORD

"So i need 257 grams per day

Is it acceptable to take the bulk of these from Whey protein shakes?

What technically would happen if i took, say: 150?


What technically would happen if i took, say: 450?"


If you ate 450g of protein that would be 1800 cals, meaning you not gunna be able to eat much carbs or fats without gaining weight (calorie surplus).
Best way to maintain protein levels is to base each meal around a protein source (some mentioned above) and eat every 3 hours. Unfortunately it isn't particulary easy because not many protein foods are desirable or easy to snack on .
Protein shakes are good but if your looking to loose weight then you far better with food as there is no thermogenic response from shakes which you can take advantage of with food

DaveMCMkIII

In sports science the rule of thumb we have is no more than 1.7g per KG of body weight for strength training athletes (not lbs). Studies that have been done suggest comsuming anymore has no extra effect on muscle building so is guide by which many athletes go by. Therefore your aily protein intake via this rule is alot easier to achieve.

Also Stu try and eat your high glycemic foods (spud for example) after training and lower glycemic things before. I talked about this briefly in a post a while back as it is suggested to improve sports performance by suplying the body with energy in a more efficient way. This said, I dont think its been looked at in regards to strength performance, just endurance.

Paul Eggleton

Thats interesting as I've always been educated, albeit through the magazines over the years, that it applies to lbs. Have you got any more info on this?

rs_si

Hope you don't mind me jumping on this thread but I'm quite into bodybuilding and interested as to what is the 'ideal protein amount'

I've got a book called Power Eating by Susan M. Kleiner

In this book it advocates that a body builder who is bulking should aim for 1.6g of protein per KG of body weight.

For someone who is cutting then it says aim for 1.8g-2g per KG of body weight.

The body is built for survival, If you lift weights then the body will automatically start to use whatever amount of protein you give it for repairing the muscles. The recommended daily intake of protein is 0.8g per KG and obviously as the average person doesn't lift weights then understandably weight lifters will benefit from increased protein intake.

The book states that they looked at research carried out by a university, where by two groups of people were put on a weight lifting routine. One group was given 1.4g per KG and the other group 2.4g per KG. They claim that their was no extra protein synthesis to be found in the higher group, suggesting that the extra protein simply wasn't used.


I would be interested to here other views on this

Simon

DaveMCMkIII

Magazines are fairly cheap and can provide alot of information regularly on training, nutrition etc which is great. Unofrtuatley non of these are peer reviewed meaning they can write what they want in the magazine (even if it is rubbish) and it gets read by millions of people. Its not un-common to find untrue, unsubstansiated statements in magazines, so i tell people not to always believe what they read, especially in magazines. This said, I'd say in gyms etc more people think that the portein requuirement is in 'grams per lbs of body weight' and not 'grams per kg of body weight', theres even a sign up in my gym saying that its lbs!

Here is a link from a scientific study and two excerts from two scientific reviews on the subject. All are peer riewed so have been accepted by the worlds best doctors and sports scientisits for publication. Unfortuatley im unable to send full text links to alot of articles because you wont have the requried access, hense why ive only put in excerts.

Study conducted in the early 90's:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

Excert from a 1996 paper by peter Lemon reviewing a number of studies:

'These data suggest that the RDA for
endurance athletes should be about 1.2 to 1.4 g
protein * kg-’ * d-r (150 to 175% of the current RDA) and
1.7 to 1.8 g protein * kg-’ * d-’ (212 to 225% of the current
RDA) for strength athletes. Fortunately, this quantity of
protein can be obtained in a mixed diet and inadequate
protein intake should not be a serious problem for most
athletes assuming their diet comes from a wide variety of
foods and they are careful to consume adequate energy.'

Excert from the published joint statement by American College of Sports Medicine (one of the most highly regarded sports/medicine science organ isations in the world) and Dieticiens of Canada from the year 2000:

'Protein requirements are slightly increased in highly
active people. Protein recommendations for endurance athletes
are 1.2 to 1.4 g/kg body weight per day, whereas those
for resistance and strength-trained athletes may be as high as
1.6 to 1.7 g/kg body weight per day. These recommended
protein intakes can generally be met through diet alone,
without the use of protein or amino acid supplements, if
energy intake is adequate to maintain body weight.'

EssexBoyRacer

Bloody hell, I'd need 367.5 grams a day on my current weight!

I only tend to take a double scoop (50g protein) after training (sometimes with 2 x raw eggs mixed in) - been concious of the calories as Im also trying to lose weight.

Anonymous

Too much... When your kidneys have a sharp pain....

NoOt enough... When your still aching after 2 nights sleep!

Paul Eggleton

Thanks Dave , the magazines(when I used to read them) certainly were written by enthusiasts and contained a lot of, lets say 'traditional techniques' . I would class Dorian Yates as the most scientifc bodybuilder of our time and would love to know what he was taking, protein wise

Paul.

Harry.

Oooh! I wondered why I got that sometimes.

This thread has been very helpful, I didn't realise you shouldn't have more than 30g of protein every two/three hours. In that case I've wasted a lot of whey powder!

Red16

another interesting thread in this section shame i got nothing to contribute

AndyBlackFRST

Think I need to sort out my diet and eating regime

RSPTG

Always conflicting reports on this one.

I always use 1.5 per lb of bodyweight.

This is also stated by Dorian Yates and John Hodgson and listed on both the websites, Protein 1.5 per lb, Carbs 2-3 per lb and fat 20% incase you are wondering. As most of you know these are two of the most respected and knowledgeble people in the circle of bodybuilding

But then again on the other hand it does state in Ironman's "Ultimate Guide To Bodybuilding Nutrition" and other papers... and illustrated above by DaveMCMKIII that 1.7-1.8 per kg of bodyweight.

So two very different formulas with very different "g" for "g" results!

200lb individual x 1.5 per lb=300g per day.
200lb individual /2.2 x 1.8 per kg=163g per day

At the end of the day take what you will &.....make up ya own mind! ....
and make sure you drink plenty of water!

FAST AS FORD

Tbh, protein timing is more important than eating huge amounts. Your body cannot store protein (only in muscle) as with carbs and fat, so after you've eaten a protein meal (not shake!) within 2.5 to 4 hours you are depleted of supplies and your body will use muscle as its protein source.
If you have suitable protein on average every 3 hours then you are supplying your body with usable protein. As to how much you have in each meal, 6 of them, if you look at 30-40g then you will be getting 180-240g per day.
Also importantly is protein quality, you need protein containg the essential 8 amino acids that the body cannot store/produce, examples are
meat
fish
eggs
milk
whey
Bear in mind if you have a whey shake as a protein meal, then have it with milk to make it slow release as if its with water it will have passed through you in 30-60 mins so you will need another protein source then!

RSPTG

or you could use a quality Casein drink, which would release over a longer period with out the milk sugars.

Paul Eggleton

From experience I know that without my protein drinks I take far longer to recover.

So I'll be sticking to 1.5gms per lb for now