mbeblue70

anybody fitted a cossie rear end in to a mk1 escort. is it easy to do or is there any one that could supply a space frame and arms to bolt straight in.

James-W

Dunno but its been done to a p100.

danrs escort

very difficult to do the only one ive seen is colin mcraes mk2 and it looks like hard work! why use independent suspension?

foreigneRS

the one in colin mcraes escort is not a cossie rear end the diff is, but what he has is far superior compared to a sierra semi-trailing arm setup in terms of geometry control.

is that a question, or a rhetorical question?

mbeblue70

what i want to do is have a space frame made to take the diff and then make up top and bottom arms that are fully adjustable to get camber right and use coilovers and cossie hubs

danrs escort

i agree colin mcraes is a much more technical set up for obvious reasons i was just using it as an example of the rear sub frame to house the diff casing. as for the question i was just wondering what was going to be gained from using the independant set up

mbeblue70

i want to do something different from using an atlas axle. there not cheap to buy parts for. i can get complete cossie rear end for £200 and thought that it would be different

foreigneRS

what's to be gained?

better geometry control and lower unsprung weight

ian sibbert

Last thing you want to do is change a live axle to a trailing arm.....camber changes from full compress to full droop are massive.....mccrae's car uses the central cradle and lateral links....ideal for nearly 0 bumpsteer and adjustments to camber, castor and toe....ive thought of doing this in a mk2 and i'd make it integral to the roll cage/body to provide addtional stiffness.....matched to some ally hubs and decent driveshafts....

HTH

foreigneRS

semi trailing arm on sierra and escos

not just camber, toe and castor are also affected.

i've done it to my mk1

ian sibbert

Didn't realise it was an exercise in such precision....I was generalising rather than going into such depth....my point was its not a viable proposition.....

That's a lot of the reason I love posting on this website....you try and share and just get taken the P*** out of....

I'm sure you will have your car dimensionally correct to avoid it crabbing down the road..... have carried out the recognised calculations for bumpsteer and optimised the camber, castor and toe settings...done numerous tests, have the necessary data to conclusively set your dampers....selected appropriate spring rating/progressions for the application...not compromised the unsprung weight.....car weight distribution correct.....centre of gravity ideal....and so on and so on !!!

Not that I have ever built a competitive car or know the difference between a semi or trailing arm....

Oh....and ive done to to a MK5......

mbeblue70

that rear end looks well trick. have you got more photo's you could send me so i can get an idea of what im doing

foreigneRS

how can you have done it to a mk5, it's not a viable proposition now i'm taking the piss

drop the attitude, buddy. i didn't see where anyone was taking the piss out of you. you'd posted up a few points that were not 100% correct, and i was just correcting them as other readers may not know as much as you do.

and yes, rod ends are used in all of my joints to be able to set geometery. adjustable spring and damper locations make it possible to change effective rates without changing parts and so on. it's not optimised yet, as i only just built it before moving out of the country for 4 years.

i'm absolutely sure that it will never be optimised. i'm just as sure that it is a definite improvement over something that was designed and made before i was born though.

i'm impressed with what you've done on your mk5 having done it yourself, why aren't you being more encouraging to others and helping them, rather than saying don't do it?

ian sibbert

Excuse me pal.... I aint got an attitude and I'd be as encouraging to this chap as I can....to the point where if he wanted to come and take dimensions from the car he's more than welcome......

I never said 'dont do it'....I actually said putting a (semi) trailing arm setup was not a viable propostiion....doing a cradle and lateral links is dead easy.....my advice was to use decent hubs and to integrate it to the cage....I will post some pics of the bosses on the car coming through from the cradle to the cage when I next get some time...

Below is a pic inside the car with the turrets and cage links going down to the cradle.....

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

Ian, what hubs and hub carriers do you use ? standard/modded parts or completely fabricated ?

ian sibbert

Jon,

On this car we have used pukka wrc front hubs all round with the forged rear steering arms to accomodate the 6 lateral links....
we have built numerous grp'a' saph's and esc's with the various beams (square & round) and both types of arms (mag & steel).
On the later square beam and mag versions we have managed to dial out most of the bumpsteer but this is my own car and i've opted for the cradle route because of not only the bumpsteer problems but the savings in weight......
Even though its primarily a gravel car we have gone to great lengths to reduce the weight of the car.....

pics of the cradle & diff







Cheers

Ian

mbeblue70

i want to fit a cradle to my mk1 but can't find any one to make one for me. i was thinking about using 4x4 saff front hubs and using the track rod ends to get the rear wheels straight. if there's any one who can make a cradle can you PM me

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

Cradle looks nice Ian.

On a WRC escort, do the trailing arms mount to the cradle, or to some bracketry near the original beam mounts ? (or is the piccy a standard WRC cradle, which picks up on the original beam front mounts?)

PS any nice pics of the front (rear) hub carriers please ? (fully dimensioned of course, so I can make some)

ian sibbert

Jon,

The cradle doesn't use any of the original beam mounting points....they are all new mounts through the shell 6 x M14 x 2....then the lateral links inner joints connect to the the cradle, outer joints to the hub...all the links are M18 x 1.5 left and right hand threaded to enable in situ adjustment...

Proflex 3 way suspension....being a gravel car we run full soft frt ARB and no rear ARB

I'll happily give you some dimensions but the hubs are cast ally machined up for the bearings with a retaining cap.....you'll need a big billet to machine em up There is a nice man near you who is actually producing em....DPE....

I'll post some pics but i'll apologise in advance my photography skills aint that good.....

mbeblue70

ian i want that cradle. where did you get it from or did you make it yourself

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

So these don't bolt up vertically to the original beam mounts ? How did you determine the geometry ? Have you got a program like Adams ?

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

An off-the-shelf cradle would be no good to you unless you've got a 9 inch diff and want to mount it in an escort cossie.

If you want one making, trailer your shell up to Zoo in Birmingham and Brom will make you one if you ask nicely.

foreigneRS

sibster sorry mate, i got the wrong impression from what you were saying. it seemed to me that you were saying that it wasn't worth changing from a beam axle to anything else.

i'd definitley agree with you that it's not worth changing to a semi-trailing arm axle as found on sierra and escos, as they are shit

what you have done there, and dared to show to others in these pics is awesome. that and what brom @ zoo has done to his sierra is the future of how all rear wheel drive fast fords should be

ian sibbert

A few more pics of the rear end....some are taken on the P***....

Regards

Ian

8rxsv7oi

what rear hubs are they?

Richie.

iTrader: (5)

They are GrpA/909 alloy uprights.

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