rayccfc

zvh 1.9 efi rs turbo coil pack wasted spark cossie managment l8
could this be the problem when i start the car up it does fire for about 30 seconds then number 3 stops firing when i take the plug out it is wet with petrol when number 124 are running i take the lead of number 3 which is in the head nothing happens to the revs and when i take the injector clip off still no change in revs so in other words why does the spark and injector stop working at the same time
cheers

lesley7

i would imagane that if it was the spark plug not sparking the feul air mixture wouldnt be able to ignite and the same if it was the injector not opening to let feul into the head the plug would have nothing to ignite they both need to be working together one without the other can have the same effect with a diesel is a bit different its based on compression ignition and can cause a knocking noise hydrolicing

lesley7

what i meant to say this could be something as silly as a spark plug gone bad when plugs start to break down they dont only miss fire the stop working on rich cold start feul first thing and cheap thing to try is a plug but dont hold your breath theres a few things that can be makeing it do that

rayccfc

i have just sent my ecu to jano at oddkids hes checked it out and said it is ok no problem so when i get it back i will try the plug idea but i have been down this route but will try a better plug i will post a reply when i try it
thanks for the info
cheers

lesley7

other possable causes if not the plug may be coil pack breaking down or the plug lead you say it runs fine for 30 secs so it wouldnt be a valve they eigher seal or dont compresion test would be my next check could be head gasket gone near the plug when the engine warms slightly it starts spraying a fine watery mist over the plug causing it to misfire im a mechanic so it dont cost me to comp test but to try the coil pack or lead it does not unless you got a m8 or a rs owner that could swop yours out breifly unlikely to be the feul injection side its getting feul to the others be different if it wasnt getting feul at all when you say it runs fine for 30 secs no disrespect to a trained ear might be a different case it should be one of those

rayccfc

checked compression 11.5 bar on all 4 cylinders also i have tried another coil pack still no change plus i have checked the lead they are all spot on let me try another plug as i said and will you know what happened should get my ecu back tomorrow
cheers lesley

lesley7

sorry m8 what i meant by comp test was on the water system its a pump you put on the exspansion bottle you pressurise the cooling system and look for a steady drop of it can search out the head gasket this is best done with a warm engine even if it runs like shit get it warm or run it see if it seems to be presureising rock solid top bottom hoses are a clue or run it for coule mins at a time and unscrew the exspansion cap slighty and note if its building presure each time or try a snifer ive never used one when warm if its very steamy out the exhaust but these days you cant really tell by that one my cossies steams like fuk esp in the winter stainless exhaust absorb moisture if its not head gasket or that plug your looking at the feul injection metering unit would be a good place to start if that the case its cheaper to get a specialist to look at that side only take one hours laboure to diagnose sorry for banging on i f...ing love it lol i only said because i didnt make my self clear in the last post

rayccfc

no probs m8 theres npthing wrong with head gasket its top of the range one from burton power i shall try things again when my ecu comes back
cheers

rayccfc

still no ecu

Caddyshack

I have noticed that modern fuels go off really quickly, if the car has stood for over 3 months it could just be that, ecu' s with maps in have far less tolerance for crap fuel. Also, chuck a set of properly gapped and tuner spec'd plugs in there for good measure.

rayccfc

its stood for a couple or weeks should be ok
cheers

lesley7

they must have forgten about you or lost it

lesley7

just because its top of the range h/gasket dont mean much if the head needed skimming and wasnt just as well have cornflake box in there

rayccfc

got my ecu back from jano turned the engine and fired up after round about 6 seconds after 3 weeks stood idle took it for a spin for about 10 minutes brilliant know probs so i will leave it over night and see what happens tomorrow now

lesley7

result ray

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

Ecu tested out fine Ray, i guess you still have a problem with the cylinder?

rayccfc

here we go again just started it up and again number 3 spark plug wet again when you take the lead off there is a little change in revs and the same with the injector plug like i said before 1 2 4 are working perfect you really notice the change in revs when i do the above check i have checked the compression and they all read the same 11.5 bar

rayccfc

would i be right in saying that if i swap 2 3 leads on the coil pack because its twin coil pack and 2 3 fire of the same coil and i am still getting the same problem it must be fuel related problem

lesley7

when you say fuel prob by the sound of it if your pulling the ht lead and the revs drop and the same for the injector plug its getting spark and fuel but thats only a vauge test by now you should have changed the ht lead and the plug the ecu checked out good the coil packs been changed the new plug is wet but with what comp test is same on all four that eliminates the valves anything major with the head you havent said owt about a sniff test or pressure tested the cooling system to se if owt is getting past the head gasket i now you said it the dogs nads one but it might be the fault of the head it self not the h/g you have to try this as a proses of elimination comp test dont allways check out do this but get it warm even if it runs like shit get the stat open when the motor is hot you might have a hairline crack opening up when cold it might close make sure its not oil over the plug is the plug unusually clean when you take it out is it getting a bit of a steam clean in there after all that and not intill i would then focus on the fuel injection side i dont no fuk all about that side i no peeps have said the metering unit/devise can cause similer probs you its not loosing water but it only got be a tiny amount

stevieturbo

If the plug is soaked, it's fucked, so not a bit of wonder taking the plug lead or injector plug off doesnt make a difference...that cylinder isnt firing anyway.

Replace the plugs, and stop starting the engine and running it for only a few seconds !

And have you actually checked for a spark on that cylinder when you think the problem is occurring ?

It seems fairly apparent that cylinder is getting fuel ( unless somehow it is getting far too much fuel )

The least likely place for there to be a fault is the ecu.

rayccfc

right now i have just started the car for a minute took the plug out and it is wet just got another plug started for about 20 seconds still wet just got someone to start the car on 3 cylinders so i stood out side and touched the plug on the metal of the car and seems to fire a perfect spark so i think it is somekind of electrical brakedown problem when under pressure another thing is as someone said on a previous post to check the blue tempreture sensor under the inlet manifold when i pulled the plug off the engine cut out is supposed to do that also would not start with it off
cheers

stevieturbo

Given how wasted spark works...the chances of 1 cylinder not having an adequate spark is pretty slim, and if it is, it will either be the coil pack itself or the HT lead...very unlikely the HT lead unless it is visibly bolloxed. But easy to swap leads with another cylinder

Swap the injector from another cylinder to see if the problem moves.

Faulty injectors are rare, but it is possible.

I could also question mechanical integrity, even if you do say compression test etc is ok But try the above.

rayccfc

swapped the leads swapped the injector still the same when i took the fuel rail off the other day and checked the injector it was spraying the fuel mist the same as the number 4 injector so it looked the same pattern but this is outside the head this is what i am trying to find out wheather the injector is working correctly in the head or the spark breaking down in head
cheers

stevieturbo

So the problem always stays with cylinder 3 with injector 3 located on another cylinder ?

You need to verify signal to the injector is same as all others ( it would be very bizarre if it was different though )
Pulse width ideally so will need a suitable meter.

Another odd test....

Swap the leads between 1/4 and 2/3. As wasted spark this should have no impact on how the car runs, but if the ecu is doing something strange when it believes it is firing spark on cylinder 3, this behaviour should now occur on cylinder 2

Or if no multimeter for injector test, swap the injector plug between a pair of cylinders and see if the problem moves.

If it is still all on cylinder 3, then there is likely a mechanical issue with the engine.

rayccfc

i think i have solved the problem i put a dry spark plug in and took the injector clip off and took the lead off aswell then i ran the car for about 4 minutes when i took the plug out i found that it was getting wet with oil proberly runnig down the valve so i have took the cylinder head and there seems to be a bit of play on the exsuast valve so i am sending to burton power to have it checked out i will let you know what happens
happy new year

stevieturbo

It would be unusual for exhaust valves to cause the problem, as there is usually pressure in there which prevents a lot of oil getting down, unless the guides really were fucked.

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

Ray why did you send it burtons mate i told you that the cost of going through them would be high on work like that. Also there are better choices on your doorstep for headwork and fixes. Either way like said above a guide would not cause that problem unless there was hardly a guide left... For the last year you have been trying to fix this have you at any point checked the rings are not broken and the piston is in one piece?

ray barker

oily plug could be a few things if the guide or guides was getting fucked on over run they get smokey as fuk very blue smoke as said above unusall for a guide unless you aint got one has the piston picked up has it any rings left in it is oil getting under hg on that cylinder

rayccfc

just got my cylinder head back it did need a lot of work doing to it put it all back together started it up and f--- m- the same problem so why when you push the boot right down over the plug it dont fire and when you lift it off a little bit it fires normally