Shaunc

*Sorry if this is in the wrong section I couldn't figure out exactly where to post it**

Question for anyone who may have the EXACT answer because a few people have givenot me thier options or best guess....
Basically I have got an "A, B1, B and fkp" passed in 2007. Am I right in thinking I CAN drive a transit (or similar size) flat bed recover vehicle without any load but once I load it with a vehicle it has to be under 7.5 tonne?
And also I CANNOT tow a car trailer using a van or car, loaded or unloaded with at all unless I pass a B+E test?

focusv8

No, 3500kg and you won't find a Transit based recovery truck capable of 7500kg

Yes you need a trailer test for a trailer over 750 kg unless your licence is 1997 or earlier.

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

Shaunc

Thanks for your reply mate so just to clarify I can legally drive a a transit style flat bed if it is 3500kg unladen?

Basically what I'm getting at is I'm trying to find out if there is any way legally I can transport an untaxed un-mot'd vehicle myself and everything is pointing to "NO"

mk1turboestate

iTrader: (2)

If you pass your test after 1997 you can tow a trail or above 750kg as long as the combined gross kerb weight of car and trailer don't exceed 3500kg, I don't think even this applies if passed in the last couple of years

mrbox

this is correct. I tow under these rules above myself and I passed my test in 2006

focusv8

Re category B with licence after 1997.

You won't find a normal Car / Trailer /Loaded vehicle combination that will comply with the 3500kg rule.

The trailer and loaded vehicle can't weigh more than the tow car.
So the moment you put a normal car on a trailer you're overweight for the licence class.
You may just get in with a stripped out track car on a lightweight trailer.

Most cars aren't rated for towing a car of the same weight let alone a trailer as well.
You need to be in a 4x4 to get a good towing weight, then you've little weight capacity left.

From https://www.gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories
Licences issued between January 1997 and 14 October 2012

B. Vehicles up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) and up to 8 passenger seats with trailer up to 750kg; trailers over 750kg if combined weight of vehicle and trailer isn’t over 3,500kg and the fully-loaded trailer doesn’t weigh more than the unladen vehicle

focusv8

You can drive a recovery vehicle provided the total weight including the load doesn't exceed 3500kg
You'll only get small / medium cars to come in under weight.

Shaunc

Thanks a lot for all your replies people!
So basically I am looking for a trailer car combo of under 3500kg or a recovery vehicle with a car on the back of under 3500kg which is pretty much not gonna happen really is it?!

Soon as I put a normal car such as mk4 escort on the back I'm over weight and you can just guarantee my luck that VOSA will be at the next motorway junction

So basically the only way I am going to be able to transport un roadworthy cars long term is to pass my B+E test and get a trailer with winch.
Unless anyone has any other ideas??!!

bigdel

Does the vehicle roll? Could you tow it with a towing bar using a normal car/van?

No idea if that's legal or not, but towed my lad's Focus RS in my Mondeo using a £29.99 Halfords bar with no problems (then again we never ran into the old bill or VOSA on route), and that was un-MOT'd, SORN'd, and has no engine, gearbox or front brakes.

Shaunc

Technically that would be deemed as illegal by the police because an untaxed vehicle should not be on a public road at all. Basically it's wheels are not supposed to touch the ground

mk1turboestate

iTrader: (2)

Or get an AA type towing dolly with brakes

Shaunc

Would that be legal then? As one set of wheels are off the ground so to speak

mk1turboestate

iTrader: (2)

From what I understand you are essentially turning the car into a trailer, the rear tyres would clearly need to legal with decent wheel bearing but so would a trailer

clairendave

It used to be that the trailer and load had to be lighter than the tow vehicles kerb weight. But I am fairly sure that has been dropped now.

Tow rules are a nightmare tbh.

Shaunc

It bloody is mate! Just get the feeling no matter what I do I'm gonna get nicked at some point!
It's crap how if you've passed you test at the time I did all your entitled to drive is a car or small van.
(I think??!!)

Rowe

you're right in the first part. But there is specific legislation which states that all axles touching the road (if over 750kg) must be braked.
Companies like the AA have permits for using dollies for recovery.... using them for transporting from a to b (unbraked) is illegal unfortunately.

Rowe

you're just gonna have to do your test aren't you. That way you'll be able to tow a wide range of vehicles if your tow car is up to the job.
It's only £140 quid for the test itself.

I'm planning on doing my test soon.
I spoke to a company called LDC which offer a 3 day course, first 2 days training, 3rd day is the test for a cost of £540 with car and trailer rental and the test fees included.

mk1turboestate

iTrader: (2)

Just for your info the reason I pointed out the AA type dolly is because they are braked and therefore fall into the correct category

Rowe

The only reason I pointed it out, is yes they are braked..... But all axles touching the floor must be braked.
Including the rear wheels of the car. Didn't mean to cause any offence

mk1turboestate

iTrader: (2)

No offence caused mate, I didn't know that all axels had to be braked,

stevieturbo

Sure about that ?

All braked trailers do not have all wheels braked, some will only have 2, ie a single axle. Do the rules not just state it must be braked. And no means how much braking, how many wheels, etc etc etc.

As for weight of load vs tow vehicle...think that too depends on license being used. Some allow only lighter, some allow heavier, assuming the car is legally allowed to tow said weight.

It's a fucking disaster from start to finish

Rowe

'additionally the brakes on the wheels of the towed carwhich
are in contact with the road must work and meet the specified 50% braking efficiency required for a trailer'

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...nd-dollies.pdf

i believe so. Unless i've interpreted it wrong?

stevieturbo

Link doesnt work, and if what you're suggesting is correct, it would make all the AA/RAC dollies illegal ?

Rowe

https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...rmation-sheets

try that one..... click on the first document. It's all explained in there

stevieturbo

The rules are truly bonkers.

So dollies are ok for recovery with exceptions for the brakes....but then limited to 40mph on motorway and 20mph elsewhere !! LOFL.

But pretty much impossible to be legal for transport without some wondrous remote braking system fitted to the towed car.

And even that document says they dont understand it and it's up to the courts lol

Rowe

Yeah it's a load of rubbish. I know you can get a second electronic servo added to the car you're towing, which would mean you could tow on an a-frame....... But they're ridiculously priced.

Shaunc

OK ok ok!
So I've decided I have no choice but to do my B+E trailer test then. It's not very expensive I supose, so the next question is....
Would an average transit van be suitable to tow a vehicle trailer with an average size/weight car on it?

Please excuse my ignorance I'm new to all this towing lark!

clairendave

Ideally you need to know what weight you will be towing.
Some transits (when laden) cannot even tow anything. But can if lightly loaded or empty.
Best way to check is look at the weight plate. Usually you will get (examples)

3500
4500
1500
2100


Top is gross vehicle weight, second is gross train weight, third front axle, fourth rear axle. NON of those plated weights can be exceeded legally.

In that example the max tow could be 2000kg, in theory this could be higher if the van weighed less than 3500. But I personally wouldn't risk it.

Note, if no second figure is shown, then the vehicle is not type approved at all for towing. Unless it's mega old.