Gadget

Well, Cosworth managed Fiesta RS turbo but same problem

I recently fitted a weber conversion onto a fiesta, originally i had fitted the conversion onto and Escort Turbo and all was well, ran spot on.
The Escort owner broke the car and the Fiesta owner bought the conversion.

I fitted it all as normal but said to the owner, why don't we use the MSD wasted spark kit to retain the coilpack, so we purchased the kit and i fitted it all.
Problem is that i am getting no spark whatsover so i first assumed that maybe i'd made a mistake with the wasted spark side, checked the wiring again ( which is only to cut the original ignition amp plug off and fit the 5 wires to a plug supplied by MSD to connect to their loom! ) and that was all good.
For peice of mind, i sent the ecu to MSD for them to check, they removed the driver, re soldered it and mounted it and checked the ecu on a car and all was good.

The loom pins out just as it should, the relays are working and wired as they should be, i've sent the ignition amps to my mate who tried them on his car, they both work, i've tried another coilpack.
The crank and cam sensors are both new Weber ones from MSD, the gaps are good and readings are good.
I've gone through the following list and put my results in BLUE


1) Ensure ignition is OFF.
2) Remove rear of ecu plug cover and insert plug back into ecu.
3) Turn ignition back on (do not start engine)
4) MAIN POWER CHECK: Check for DC voltage of at least 11.5V between ecu pins 19 and 20. 13.3v
5) REFERENCE CHECK: Check for DC voltage of around 4.8 to 5.2V between pins 11 and 30. 4.95v
6) MAP SENSOR CHECK: Check for DC voltage of approx 1.8 to 2.5V between pins 11 and 15. 1.6v
7) THROTTLE CLOSED:
4x4: Check for DC voltage less than 0.5V between pins 11 and 17. 0.07v
2WD: Check for DC voltage greater than 4.5V between pins 11 and 17.
8) THROTTLE FULLY OPEN:
4x4: Check for DC voltage greater than 4.5V between pins 11 and 17. 4.75v
2WD: check for DC voltage less than 0.5V between pins 11 and 17.
9) Turn ignition off, unplug ecu, and turn ignition back on (don’t forget immobilizer if fitted)
10) CRANK SENSOR: Check resistance between pins 3 and 4 between 300 and 1200 ohms. 639 ohms
11) CRANK SENSOR: Check AC voltage on pins 3 and 4 while cranking engine - should be at least 2V. 2.5v
11) PHASE SENSOR: Check resistance between pins 5 and 23 between 300 and 1200 ohms. 637 ohms
12) PHASE SENSOR: Check AC voltage on pins 5 and 23 while cranking engine - should be at least 1.5 - 2V. 1.8v
12) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 18 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
13) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 35 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
14) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 33 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
15) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 32 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
NOTE: INJECTOR TESTS MAY NEED MAIN RELAY ENERGISED ON L1 and L6 ecus (link pins 1 and 10 first)
16) IGNITION TRIGGER: Read voltage between pins 24 and 25, should be at least 4.5V. 3.8v so a little low but checked to the negative on the battery aso and the reading is the same
17) IGNITION TEST: BEWARE DANGEROUS VOLTAGES ON PLUG/COIL LEADS.
Quickly link pins 24 and 25 on and off this will FIRE the ignition coil. Rotate dizzy by moving car in gear to point rotor arm at one plug lead and remove spark plug (earthing it on chassis or engine) to see spark. Try for each plug in turn. Or remove king lead at dizzy and place end within 1 centimetre of earth to see a big spark.
18) Place a temporary wire link from pin 1 to pin 10 (energises ecu power relay) - you should hear a click. Yes, it energises!
19) Quickly link pins 19 to 28 to test fuel pump runs. Pump runs
20) COOLANT TEMP: Check resistance pins 29 and 11 for 800 ohms to 5000 ohms (depends on temp)
21) CHARGE TEMP: Check resistance pins 31 and 11 for 800 ohms to 5000 ohms (depends on temp)

I didn't bother with the injector tests as the plugs are getting wet so working, or with coolant / air sensor checks as these won't affect the spark..

Any ideas on what else to try as i'm pretty stuck now, i'm considering removing the wasted spark loom, and re wiring the single ignition amp and coil wires, fitting a dizzy to try my mates ecu on the old style system.

Bit more info
The ignition amps all have good connections ( using the MSD new loom )
Pin 1 on each amp goes to the outer connection on the coilpack plug
Pin 2 Good earth
Pin 3 to pin 24 on the ecu and is earth with ignition on or off
pin 4 Ignition live
Pin 5 empty
Pin 6 on Amp 1 to pin 25 on the ecu and is earth with ignition on or off
on Amp 2 to pin 26 on the ecu and is earth with ignition on or off but drops half when on???
Pin 7 empty.

I get the ignition live to the centre pin on the coilpack plug.


I noticed earlier that after i had been cranking for a bit to check if the plugs were getting wet, after i'd stopped cranking, the fuel pump relay was clicking like mad and the pump running, i removed the relay and re fitted it and it carried on. I left it for a minute to see if it stopped but it carried on.
I keyed off, back on and it was fine. cranked again but it didn't do it again??

boy-racer-1

looks like youve just gone through every single mind scratching headache ive had over the last 6 odd months or so, just so you know the fuel pump thing did the same with mine and then stopped completely, seems everything has been checked on your car except the ecu which of course you cant check yourself as only 1 place knows how it works, how convenient, best of luck to you mate, best advice i can give you is take the 1 peice out that isnt working and go back to standard

Richie.

iTrader: (5)

Gary, you got any spare ignition amps to try?

Spent ages chasing a similar problem when swapped engine/management from my white saff to the moonstone one.

Two new amps from MSD and it fired straight away.

Twins

iTrader: (18)

Richie, gary sent the two amps down to me and I tried them on my car,car started with both amps tried

Richie.

iTrader: (5)

The dodgy ones on my car ran Jasons three door fine, hence why we spent weeks banging our heads.

boy-racer-1

so even a slightly deteriorated ignition amp wont start the car? so what happens when the new ones fitted wear down a bit? fork out for new ones every year?

Twins

iTrader: (18)

interesting !!!!! think that's worth a go then

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

have you checked for 12V on the central terminal of the coil pack connector ?

Gadget

Jon, Yes mate. The ignition live is there on the centre pin of the coilpack connector.

Gadget

Great, that's easy to fault find on them then

Gadget

What's been going on with your car mate?
Its doing my head in now, this was supposed to be a quick easy swap over for someone. The time ive spent on it now is ridiculous and basically made no money on the job now, not to mention the Ł57 spent sending the ecu to MSD, Ł26 another new crank sensor and the postage costs of the igntion amps to / from my mate.

boy-racer-1

Thread here mate
https://passionford.com/forum/genera...ted-spark.html

Google wasted spark not working you will find plenty more cases, I really think this has got to a stage for trading standards now, however it's no longer a case for me to follow up as I'm not in possession of it anymore despite the money time and aggravation it's cost me

Fezzrs

Cars finally running big thank you to gadgets friend for driving 100 mile to test my car funny aibt it it runs on distribitor and ecu so this wasted spark is the problem and its good aint it msd sending me a loom tgat was wired needed rewiring great for 80 pound im sending this kit back to msd and would like the money back is like to know why is the wiring different on this spark driver to the one i bought sent the ecu to James to test it in which hes said he did on his car that was not running right im betting its down to this spark driver

Fezzrs

The car ran fine before we fitted this spark driver so its clearly the problem im going to try get my money back now