fordcozyjohn

hi my m8s just got a mk5 fiesta 1.6 zetec s its got a set of cams in it but standard pulleys whats the best way to get more power out this engine ?

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

There isn't really, unless you spend considerable money.

They respond well to cams, then you have things like 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, exhaust and a map to suit.

Martin

fordcozyjohn

just rang ctm tuning bout geting head work dun and he was saying can get up to 25 % more power out of it

CrOwSoN15

The heads flow very well as standard and can be left alone until around 150bhp which can just about be had on standard induction bar a decent filter.

Cams, ITB's, a decent 4-2-1 manifold and system on OMEX or equivelant will see you around 160/170bhp, 200bhp can be had with lairy cams and headwork.

It's Czech Mate

Standard inlet
Decent cams ( really depends on the right grind)
4-2-1
Exhaust
Panel filter
Uprated rod bolts

Remap

150bhp

add throttlebodies and management and uprated valve springs for 170+bhp


the head flows enough for nearly 200bhp as is
the standard pulleys are keyless so they do everything a vernier pulley can in terms of tuning

kyle_st200

Probably the best thing to do would be puma it and tune that engine. Can be done quite cheap now

CrOwSoN15

Puma is fine in mild tune, but at the top end you're only realistically going to see another 10bhp at the most. Waste of time IMO.

kyle_st200

Surely got to be worth doing and tuning that than a zetec s? I had a zs when they were fairly new with a k&n and cat back etc and my brother in laws puma zs feels a lot quicker than mine did

fordcozyjohn

thanks for the help this is all good to know

CrOwSoN15

Thing is, the money you spend on getting everything you need for the conversion, you could put into the 1.6 and have more power.

That's probably because your K&N and catback gave you maybe 5bhp if you're lucky lol.

kyle_st200

I know I will of had minimal gains I was just pointing out that rather spending the money tuning that you may aswel puma it. I'm sure it only cost my brother in law about Ł400 to puma his which like you said my k&n and cat back was similar money and gave minimal gains whereas going the pula route is more power per Ł

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

There's no way a 1.6 zetec s engine does 200bhp on a stock bottom end lol

You would need a full race engine to make 200bhp and spend thousands, 160/165bhp is possible with cams, throttle bodies, 4-2-1, full decat system, head work, arp rod bolts

If you think I'm wrong show me proof, people are reading to much into pumaspeed claims,

Full race exhaust and throttle bodies will make around 150bhp so add 10/15bhp max for head work and cams

CrOwSoN15

I honestly don't know how I managed to forget about the bottom end lol.

Burtons did something like 197bhp on standard rods, but it wouldn't last long.

You only need to touch the head if you're going for 170+, they flow fine even at that level.

asha1

I'd go Puma route to be honest, got a puma'd mk5 zs myself with cat back & k&n - granted its not the fastest thing on the road but it is bloody quick up to 4th ! I've found tuning is *quite* limited on the 1.7 though, can get FRP inlet, FRP cams, HD Big end bolts & FRP map, 4-2-1, should apparently get to around 150bhp - 160bhp (so i've read)

or if you can get hold of 1, an FRP engine.

It's Czech Mate

Pointless when a 1.6 can be modded for 150bhp on the standard plastic inlet

Cams, rodbolts, exhaust, 4-2-1 and a map...away you go

I've had a few of these done now in various cars and its a piece of cake

These engines are superb, breathing is heavily restricted as standard but the right cams and inlet/exhaust mods will release its potential

Super light too

The right cams are important tho, speak to Shawspeed.


if you want to tune the 1.7 its basically the same engine and you can do the same stuff but its a pain incorporating the vct or removing it so you may as well start with the 1.6

Theres a reason all the kit car companies use them




Best mod to a standard one after the usual exhaust/filter..........retime the exhaust cam or a RR

asha1

That's the only pain in the arse for me, VCT ! as I bought my ZS already puma'd there would be no point me going back to a 1.6 I reckon, think I was thinking of my case too much

I guess in the case of the OP, doing all that would be worthwhile I guess, but what kinda cost's are involved ?

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Agreed.

Martin

It's Czech Mate

Doesnt need headwork for under 200bhp the valves are plenty big enough

A polish helps a little

bodies without cams are a waste of money, the cams are cheaper and can be set up using the existing management, bodies cannot, therefore the cams first is the way to do it (150bhp) then add bodies for over 150bhp, this is where it gets pricey with standalone management required, however ALL n\a cars are 'pricey' to tune and this one gives particularly good results if you're starting from base

also ARP do not make rod bolts for this engine last time I looked

you will also need to think about valve springs if you raise the rev limit much above standard

For the record, Pumaspeed have always been full of shit, Pumabuild are a little better but not massively so.

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

I was just making it clear that you would not see 200bhp on a stock bottom end, I know about needed management as I would never try fitting bodies without

If I wanted decent future mods I would save my money and fit a 2.0 st150 engine, as cams and bodies with decent exhaust would see 200bhp although it can be done with bolt on mods

And there's all the turbo and supercharger kits out their too

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

He said BOTTOM end!

Martin

It's Czech Mate

He also said lots of other things too, some mildly misleading and some incorrect hence my post

Hth

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

if im honest i would pay too see one make 200bhp on a stock head and bottom end in aspirated form, an st170 struggles to clear 200bhp with throttle bodies and management

i just cant see it happening when i have the experience of having professionals build me worked redtops and aspirated cosworths and the time and money and work needed to clear 200bhp is mental

the small 1.6 would need to have some serious work done to clear 200bhp in n/a form, if it was the case of banging on a throttle bodie kit and cams with forged pistons and steel rods to one of these engines to clear 200bhp then everyone would do it, so what your saying is it doesnt need any porting ect?

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, it will never flow for 200HP

Tbh that figure and that size of engine don't go hand in hand.

Martin

Wardy ZS

Depends what you want to spend.

ZSOC.com has some varied projects.

Anything from a mild engine, upto 300bhp turbo Sigmas in a kit car.

For tuning, ShawSpeed are most popular for the 1.6 and LMS (Lightning Motorsport) for the 1.7.

I'm running 160-170 with a standard bottom end, mild headwork, cams, ITB's and aftermarket management. Rough cost to build mine would be Ł3k to Ł4k.

200bhp is possible, but you will need forged bottom end, headwork and lairy cams, I'd budget another Ł2k at least up from my spec.

It's Czech Mate

I don't think anyone has said it would clear 200bhp with no head work and a standard bottom end?!?!?! Lol in post 5 I said the bottom end needs a mod to safely hit 150

It's Czech Mate

I've seen 190-195 with no headwork other than a polish

Any amount of headwork won't improve this unless you can work out a way of using bigger valves

This is based on having had 5 of these engines in the family in various states of tune over the years, one in a fiesta and four in various kit cars.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

"the head flows for nearly 200hp as it is" as stated by you in your first post?

Martin

It's Czech Mate

I'm not sure why you're being so argumentative, you are saying your love to see one doing 200bhp on a standard bottom end and no headwork.

Nobody has ever said it would if you read back.

Feel free to carry on guessing what you can do with a sigma, I'm happy to sit here with the knowledge of what I have done.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

I'm not, and no I am not saying that, it's pretty obviously it would need work on the bottom end, it's hardly a strong engine to start with.

The fact I am stating is that you said the head will flow for 200HP, which is incorrect as it would need work (which you later said, by your own admission) which is the point that Mark made as well.

Tbh, like I say, I seriously doubt that figure anyway, in N/A form.

Martin

SmudgerByName

I'm considering some tuning on my ZS over the next few months so am interested in seeing what your spec is like...

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

The key word is 'nearly', you just seem to be arguing for arguments sake.

The only time I've seen a 1.6 do 200bhp on a standard bottom end, was with a turbo strapped to the side of it, that also had no head work iirc, but the small amount of boost helped there.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Someone else has raised the same point.

Headwork would be required alot earlier than that (You can see someone already has mentioned headwork for like 160-170HP on this very thread) 200HP is some difference, so not 'nearly' at all.

Martin

It's Czech Mate

Lol, get one on the flow bench with a pro like I did.

I'm out of this one and will leave it to the guessers and theorists.

fordcozyjohn

hi all well i think that hes just going to put a st170 engine in it now

AaronsKa

That's more ball ache than its worth. Find a racing puma engine and ecu and it would give a little Zs quite a kick up its arse!

It's Czech Mate

Not a bad shout

Needs a 16v Xr2i or RS1800 gearbox if you can find one

Again, retime the exhaust cam and thats a lovely conversion IMO as you will have a fairly stock engine and therefore reliability

It's Czech Mate

For the price you'd pay you can extract more power and torque from the 1.6 you have already

CrOwSoN15

I feel like we're beginning to repeat ourselves

fordcozyjohn

hi all do you know if the cams out my m8s fista 1.6 zetec s will fit in my gf focus 1.6 zetec ?

CrOwSoN15

Depends whether the Focus has a Zetec E engine or SE.