bike carbs on cvh

[danc001]

been looking into getting read of the injection system now.. and looking for alternatives.. twin 40 webers: to bloody expensive... and then i thought that theres people who put bike carbs on the engine, seen a yamaha r1 set on a crossflow engine before but i wana know how i go about putting them on my rs1600i engine, obviously need set of carbs, which ones do i use? and i need an adapter plate and all the linkage! and i duno where to even look! so help on what carbs and where do i get the adapter plates, linkage and everything to make em work basically!!

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[tabetha]

You sure you want to do a backward step to carbs, or do you mean throttle bodies ?
tabetha

[blk-Mk5-zs]

carbs are a backwards step and they dont run/idle as well as injection but do increase power, depends what you want from your car.

on a 1600 id say go for 600 carbs, the adapter plate, i dont know, get an inlet gasket and get someone to cut around it in 3-5mm steel and weld some exhaust on to join to the carbs with silicone hose.

linkage will already be done as the carbs will come as 4 not twins

you need a fuel pressure regulator, ebay, (injection to carb, has a return on it)

a fuel pressure gauge, ebay, (to check the pressure isnt too high after the reg.)

and thats about it.

just need management which can be megajolt or a system called esc that runs little 1.1 fiestas, has a vacuum line to advance the spark, does ok till 5k revs.

[danc001]

well, ive read a pdf file on how to convert them, using r1 carbs i wont need to wire it into the loom atall, so i can still keep the rs1600i ecu in there.

and to be honest i prefer carbs, i dont like injection systems atall there a pain in the backside. im a bit old school me, meaning my mk3 escort has to be old school aswell lol, but twin 40's are to expensive, so i thought bike carbs.

the car is being used for a toy anyway so will be thrashed lol

the only thing im stuck on is what do i do with the vacum line like you said?

using r1 ones all i need to buy is:
the fuel pump, fuel filter and carbs off a r1
a custom manifold
and make up a manual choke, which is easy as ive got one in the shed lol

then on top of that drill out the main jets and away you go, just add an air filter on top

pretty simple really and from what ive worked out so far in the region off £200 to do,

the other thing is my old man knows a lot about carbs and can set them up etc, he also knows alot about bikes, as his built a few before aswell.

[clarke5700]

not worth it. the vac line will need to go between the carb and the head so that it can pick up on vacum

but why are you going to through a good accurout injection system out if favor of carbs??

[blk-Mk5-zs]

Originally Posted by danc001

well, ive read a pdf file on how to convert them, using r1 carbs i wont need to wire it into the loom atall, so i can still keep the rs1600i ecu in there.



the only thing im stuck on is what do i do with the vacum line like you said?

using r1 ones all i need to buy is:
the fuel pump, fuel filter and carbs off a r1


and make up a manual choke, which is easy as ive got one in the shed lol

by the rs1600i loom do you mean edis? (i dont know if they ran edis or not) if so it will run like shit on that alone.

depends on what management your using as to where you take the vacuum line as it will go to the management, you'll need to join all the intakes together to get a smooth vacuum, not needed though.

if youve got an injection pump now that will destroy bike carbs, you need a regulator to bring it doen to 3-4psi

im not using a choke on my bike carbs and there fine, just a little tickle on cold mornings, cba messing with a choke though

[danc001]

clarke: i hate injection systems, there a pain to work on and i want something different

BLK: dont know about the loom, looking at an xr3i and rs1600i next together they look the same lol, the ecu is different colours though.

and do i really need the vacum system then? cant i just take the lot off and block up the hole on the distributer on where it went? cvh's are simple anyway theres 4 plugs on the engine, and 2 of them are for the injection system, which can just be cut off really as there not going to be needed, this are warm up regulator and the cold start valve! surely im not going to need a different ecu when nothing on the carbs is electrical? just look at my mk3 1.3 ghia? thats on carbs, that engine hardly has any electrics atall, dipstick sensor and temp sensor lol

oh and as i said i will use the r1 fuel pump and fuel filter. so wont need to have pressure regulator.

[B16CVH]

If you use the fuel pump from the bike (R1 or R6 i cant remember) the fuel pump cuts in and out on its own so no regulator is needed.

Spk to these guys.

http://www.boggbros.co.uk/fabrication.html

[blk-Mk5-zs]

ah right so the rs1600i uses a dizzy, well just have a vacuum line going from one of the inlets on the manifold to the dizzy. ive never done this before as i done it on my zetec which has a coil pack.

but im sure youll need the vacuum hose there to advance the spark at higher rpm.

just buy some carbs, get them on a manifold and bung them on and turn the key see what happens

oh and if you go to bogg bros its 175+vat for the manifold alone, they know what there doing though!

[danc001]

lol oh yea i didnt mention that it was converted to distributer lol the twin coils kept packing up so i put a dizzy on it instead lol

yea ive alredy found out on the net that they charge that much, going to have to do some shopping around to find one i suposse, bit expensive i dont wana make one though because its to complicated for me lol

so may ring around a few places try and find a better quote!! and try and get a definat answer on what happens to the vacum hose lol!

thanks for ya help anyway mate

[B16CVH]

If you make the manifold yourself (its not that hard) the floats need to run horizontally and you'll need to incline the carbs by 25 degrees.

You should be ok loosing the vacuum as the lumenition dizzies used on pintos etc dont run them, you just block the pipe up. It is only really used when the choke is on creating more suction to the vacuum diaphragm creating more advance on warm up for better running.

[danc001]

ah! but i havent got any of the machinary needed to make one except a grinder lol. im sure if i take the spare head ive got and take it to a machining shop along with the carbs, they may be able to make something up cheaper.

[B16CVH]

Originally Posted by danc001

ah! but i havent got any of the machinary needed to make one except a grinder lol. im sure if i take the spare head ive got and take it to a machining shop along with the carbs, they may be able to make something up cheaper.

You can get the plate made from the inlet gasket by a laser cutting engingeering place, just get them to copy it, i rember having some copper RST ex gaskets made this way only cost me £15! Then its just a matter of 4 bits of pipe at the correct angle (welded £30ish) and some silicone hose with jubilee clips! Cheap as Chips!

[danc001]

or.. buy this and weld 4 pieces of pipe on lol

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ford-CVH-Inlet...1%7C240%3A1318

what angle does the pipe have to be and how long does it have to be?

[tabetha]

That's complete crap "carb's increase power".
Any engine that is optimised will always be better overall on FI, no matter how it gets there as it is controlled, something the carb can't do anything remotely as well, it was good in it's day and better than some early FI systems, but it's had it's day if you don't need to use it.
And yes I am talking directly from back to back testing of various engines/specs carbs versus FI, you can get the odd gain here or there with carbs, but nothing remotely approaching the driveability of FI.
tabetha

[danc001]

like i said:

im not really intrested in power gains etc...

i just dont like injection systems, if you keep the engine simple then theres not much that can go wrong,

look at the old pintos and xflows, not much can go wrong as theres nothing to the engines

but when you get to injection systems and all the technical stuff about them. theres a lot more to go wrong, a simple vacum hose can effect the running.

if i could and it was simple enough ild put a pinto in my mk3.

i cant stand new engines and injection systems, i prefer carbs because of the simplicity and sound, these nothing to them. if an injection system goes wrong.. it'll cost loads to repair.. if bike carbs go wrong there cheap as chips, set of r1 carbs on ebay are around £50 lol better than twin 40 webers for £250!!!

and as far as going backwards in technology.. in 1983, fords injection systems where crap anyway, theres a difference between technology these days and in them days, manufactures no a lot more these days hence why injection systems are even more complicated and hardly go wrong.. but in them days injection had only just come out, manufactures where still experimenting on how to make them better.. however carbs have been around since the first cars come out hundred years ago.. so using carbs off a 98 r1 which has had years and years of playing around to make them better, more reliable and more advance i think would be a wise option.

once again they are going on a tuned rs1600i engine.

powerwise, yea it may add 1bhp it may add 20bhp no-one cares really, im not intrested in power gains, just getting rid of injection systems

[madmack99]

there is a xr2 with r1 carbs and it sounds outstanding power i dont know how much it adds

[danc001]

all i need to know now is...

what do i do with this:

on mine theres a pipe coming from the brake cylinder and runs to inlet manifold, then theres a thin pipe running from inlet to the distributer!

so it just knowing what to do with these and thats it! hehe

[B16CVH]

The servo pipe will still need to be retained, you will need a take off on each tubular section of the inlet manifold all linked together with a 1-way valve between Cylinder No. 4 and the servo, this willl allow for maximum suction of the servo and so your brakes will not suffer.

[danc001]

ah! wicked!

thansk guys!, when i get stuck with it ill give you all a shout anyway lol

[blk-Mk5-zs]

Originally Posted by tabetha

That's complete crap "carb's increase power".
Any engine that is optimised will always be better overall on FI, no matter how it gets there as it is controlled, something the carb can't do anything remotely as well, it was good in it's day and better than some early FI systems, but it's had it's day if you don't need to use it.
And yes I am talking directly from back to back testing of various engines/specs carbs versus FI, you can get the odd gain here or there with carbs, but nothing remotely approaching the driveability of FI.
tabetha

in this case it is not "complete crap"

just like it wasnt in the case of me putting bike carbs on my engine.

fair enough i could have stuck throttle bodies on and management but that would have cost £2000 for the kit? bike carbs on a manifold cost me £150 and did increase power.

fair enough fuel injection is controlled and better delivery of power/fuel but i dont care if my cars a little rough as its quicker, which is the reason i done it.

[B16CVH]

I would do the bike carb option also, cheap and cheerful and the extra power you would get from spending £1500+ on injection/Throttle bodies just aint worth it, you may as well turbo it if you were gona fork out that kind of cash. The standard Ford injection systems MFI/EFI wouldnt give you anywhere near the power the bike carbs would.

[siscossie]

Ive just put a set of R1 carbs on a mk2 escort 2.2pinto and the are brilliant, they where the best but i made for the car. They are so responsive and no flat spots or hessitation, got them and the inlet manifold from bog brothers inbetween scarbourogh and york. Cannot recomend them enough
simon

[danc001]

and i think the above 2 posts are enough to make me wana go for it!

found a block that would make me a manifold for under £100

r1 carbs are around £60

and the rest ive got hahahaha

[mato]

I've got R6 carbs and a manifold from bogg Brothers on a TU engine, they set it up and rolling roaded it, drives fine, idle not quite as smooth but gave a power figure of 129BHP at the fly, so all in all I feel it is a worth while modifaction.

[siscossie]

Heres a few pics of the escort the manifold is a work of art will get some better pics

[danc001]

thats a really nice one!! im not bothered for looks though nothing else on engine bay polished its either, white silver or black lol

[siscossie]

Its a dodle to fit no vacuum just the linkages to connect and the fuel pipe, and a choke cable which you can get off ebay. The escort makes 180bhp so responsive it untrue and a great noise too
simon