PassionFord      


Go Back   PassionFord > Tuning, FAQ & Post Archive's. > Technical help Q & A
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Register Photos KBase Gold & Trader Accounts FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read GarageVendor Directory
Search
Welcome to PassionFord

Technical help Q & A Got A technical problem with you car? Keep it in here where the techies hang out and we will try to solve it for you!!

Reply
 
 
 
submit to reddit
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 20-04-2006, 07:11 PM   #1
Moondust_crust
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: under the cabby... i think.
Posts: 975
Default rebuilding a zetec engine

looking to rebuild a zetec 1600 engine, dont want to alter much want it pretty much standard spec, what things do i look out for when taking it apart? wear on stuff? only done 60k.
cheers in advance peeps!
If you were logged in, you wouldn't be seeing this ad!
Register your free account today, or log in if you already have an account.
__________________


Very Nice Very Tastefull.......
Moondust_crust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2006, 10:23 PM   #2
KillBill
Virgin
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 8
Send a message via MSN to KillBill
Default

I need to rebuild my 1.8 silvertop, as the piston rings are going... so would be interested in hearing any general advice and pitfalls also....
KillBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2006, 06:22 AM   #3
Moondust_crust
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: under the cabby... i think.
Posts: 975
Default

come on people there must be some websites or links you can give us?
__________________


Very Nice Very Tastefull.......
Moondust_crust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2006, 11:28 AM   #4
dipy
15000
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 15
Default

check play in valve guides and replace on a need to do basis, bores need honing with a fine grit as a min, look for sratches on the bores and check condition of oil scrapper rings as these tend to snap - which leads to further investigation. check big end and main bearings for wear marks which may signal pump problems. recut valve seats. always replace cam seals as these tend not to seal again. get the crank journals checked and polished or rolled as needed. get oil ways flushed. look at hydraulic lifters for scoring on side as these cause oil leak down pressure losses.

as a min you need:
new big end bearings (£20)
new main cap bearings (£30
new pistons rings (£80)
hone bores (£25)
oil pump clearances checked, new relief valve and spring
crank journals checked, work as necessary (£35 polish)
bottom end gasket set (£25)
valve faces/seats recut (£2 per valve)
new valve stem oil seals
new cam seals
head gasket set (£40)
all new bolts and fixings

Usually best to get the head decoked and block chemical boiled (both for £40)

prices are just guidelines for some of the stuff i've bought previous, i imagine they are still round about todays prices......
dipy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2006, 12:07 PM   #5
Moondust_crust
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: under the cabby... i think.
Posts: 975
Default

do haynes do a zetec rebuild manual does anyone know?
__________________


Very Nice Very Tastefull.......
Moondust_crust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2006, 01:29 PM   #6
dipy
15000
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 15
Default

don't know, but alot of the removal/refitting is covered in the fez manuals 92-95 from the xr2i 16v & si
dipy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2006, 02:07 PM   #7
Red16
10K+ Poster!!

 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South Shields
Posts: 10,789
Send a message via MSN to Red16
Default

check out my thread for pics and step by step how to strip a

zetec bottom end http://www.passionford.com/forum/vie...=asc&start=760

cylinder head http://www.passionford.com/forum/vie...=asc&start=800

no help to you for building the engine but at least you can see whats what inside
__________________

Mac Motorsports Worx ZX10r turbo engined kit car... build thread in the restorations, rebuild & projects section

PS3 username - SausageArm ....... My DSLR photo's - http://www.flickr.com/photos/30990332@N02/
Red16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2006, 05:43 PM   #8
sexr3i
isn't it
 
sexr3i's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nuneaton, Warks
Posts: 589
Send a message via MSN to sexr3i
Default

just swap it for a 1.8 or 2 litre cheaper than buying bearings, pumps and rings
__________________

89 3i zetec
mk3 toy
http://www.passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=161433
sexr3i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2006, 07:23 PM   #9
Moondust_crust
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: under the cabby... i think.
Posts: 975
Default

cheers red, thats a help mate, might need some more help so i might bombard ya with some questions lol. got the engine today so started to strip it....
__________________


Very Nice Very Tastefull.......
Moondust_crust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2006, 09:09 PM   #10
Moondust_crust
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: under the cabby... i think.
Posts: 975
Default

dipy mate, problem is i cant tell whats got wear on it or not, first time ive taken one apart to rebuild before, red's thread was very helpfull doesnt look too hard, its just knowing what stuff to replace......
__________________


Very Nice Very Tastefull.......
Moondust_crust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2006, 01:36 AM   #11
KillBill
Virgin
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 8
Send a message via MSN to KillBill
Default

That other thread is class, shows in detail what exactly the inside looks like, which makes Haynes seem a bit more clear now

I've also never stripped an engine before, so this is very helpful.

Cheers lads
KillBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2006, 10:35 AM   #12
Moondust_crust
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: under the cabby... i think.
Posts: 975
Default

got a couple of pics , and already i need help .

seen some people blank off this hole, there was a big black metal box plugged into it do i need it? or can i blank it off?

Click the image to open in full size.

also what about all these pulleys? only need the bottom one connected to an altenator dont i?

Click the image to open in full size.

cheers for all the help!¬
__________________


Very Nice Very Tastefull.......
Moondust_crust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2006, 05:43 PM   #13
sexr3i
isn't it
 
sexr3i's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nuneaton, Warks
Posts: 589
Send a message via MSN to sexr3i
Default

out of interest why are you re-building it if it's only done 60k? I've seen zetecs hammered every day and are still going strong at over 100k. Things to look out for may be different depending on the circumstances before the rebuild. I'd just whip the sump off, check the bearings and replace if necessary, rocker cover off and check cams and tappets and note the condition of the oil. Should all give you a good clue to the health of the lump. But like I say, if the engine has had problems, then I wouldn't bother rebuilding it as a 1.8 from an xr3i or Si etc is cheaper to buy than all the rebuild parts and will drop straight in with an ecu swap.

the big hole on the block is an oil breather, the pulleys, 1 is a waterpump (you need that), one is a tensioner (you need that), one is PAS pump, you could do without that but it'll be harder to turn the wheel, or if you're putting the lump in a non PAS car then get rid of the pump and you need a shorter belt. you've got the alternator yeah, and the other is an idle pulley to get the belt going where it needs to go whilst getting plenty of surface area on the other pulleys.
__________________

89 3i zetec
mk3 toy
http://www.passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=161433
sexr3i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2006, 05:56 PM   #14
Moondust_crust
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: under the cabby... i think.
Posts: 975
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sexr3i
out of interest why are you re-building it if it's only done 60k? I've seen zetecs hammered every day and are still going strong at over 100k. Things to look out for may be different depending on the circumstances before the rebuild. I'd just whip the sump off, check the bearings and replace if necessary, rocker cover off and check cams and tappets and note the condition of the oil. Should all give you a good clue to the health of the lump. But like I say, if the engine has had problems, then I wouldn't bother rebuilding it as a 1.8 from an xr3i or Si etc is cheaper to buy than all the rebuild parts and will drop straight in with an ecu swap.

the big hole on the block is an oil breather, the pulleys, 1 is a waterpump (you need that), one is a tensioner (you need that), one is PAS pump, you could do without that but it'll be harder to turn the wheel, or if you're putting the lump in a non PAS car then get rid of the pump and you need a shorter belt. you've got the alternator yeah, and the other is an idle pulley to get the belt going where it needs to go whilst getting plenty of surface area on the other pulleys.
to be honest im not wanting to do a complete rebuild i juat want to make sure its all ok before i slot it in place, its had no problems in the past its a good runner, when i drained the oil it came out clean to looks like its been looked after (or just had a change) can i block the hole is the block off and just use the breather off the rocker cover?

so basically with the pulleys i can just junk the pas pump at the top and run the bottom the way they are (with a shorter belt), is it true the belt can catch on the inside wing?

engine mounts im ok with and inlet side of things cus im using the inlet off a xr3i cvh with one of jano's plates, exhaust im a bit worried about, someone said a st170 one will fit but im not sure about that,

and what about clutch and flywheel, i take it i need a mk4 clutch, but can use the zetec flywheel as it has the cutouts for the sensor?

cheers in advance your a star!
__________________


Very Nice Very Tastefull.......
Moondust_crust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2006, 12:51 AM   #15
KillBill
Virgin
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 8
Send a message via MSN to KillBill
Default

My Zetec burns oil like crazy and its done 130k... I get blue smoke out the back if I floor it, so I'm pretty sure the rings need attention. This is my main reason for wanting to rebuild / replace the engine.

That said, I have heard reports that this can also be caused by problems in the bottom end... has anyone experienced issues like this, and if so, what was the cause ?

TBH I was surprised my engine has kicked the bucket at 130k, I see loads of other Zetecs at 150-200 and they still seem fine.
KillBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2006, 12:49 PM   #16
Red16
10K+ Poster!!

 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South Shields
Posts: 10,789
Send a message via MSN to Red16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondust_crust
cheers red, thats a help mate, might need some more help so i might bombard ya with some questions lol. got the engine today so started to strip it....
no worries, if i can help you with anything i will


Quote:
Originally Posted by KillBill
That other thread is class, shows in detail what exactly the inside looks like, which makes Haynes seem a bit more clear now

I've also never stripped an engine before, so this is very helpful.

Cheers lads
its easy really, just take your time, take loads of photos if you got a camera handy, theyre handy for the where did this bit go moments nothing should have to be forced, should all go together nicely, if it doesnt somethings not right and make sure everything is torque'd up properly.
__________________

Mac Motorsports Worx ZX10r turbo engined kit car... build thread in the restorations, rebuild & projects section

PS3 username - SausageArm ....... My DSLR photo's - http://www.flickr.com/photos/30990332@N02/
Red16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2006, 03:14 PM   #17
sexr3i
isn't it
 
sexr3i's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nuneaton, Warks
Posts: 589
Send a message via MSN to sexr3i
Default

I never blocked it off, dont see the point tbh, why would u want it to not breather as well as standard? i think zvh conversions block it off, but im sure they have their own reasons for that. probly exhaust/turbo clearance issues?

yeah you just get a shorter belt, it's not a ford belt though so i ended up using a couple of different ones from motor factors before xr4x4rs off here found me the part number for one that fitted.

you're running the zetec on your old cvh management? will need setting up you know, mfi or efi?

you can get an ashley exhaust manifold that will bolt up to your system, or do what i did and just cut the flanges off and sleeve the new manifold to your system.

Zetec clutch works fine, and my one looked a fair bit beefier than my mk4 clutch. flywheel should be fine too, it's just the 130 spec flywheels that need changing for a 105/eficvh etc.

I've got a diagram of the cooling pipework mods you'll need too. Keep us posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondust_crust
[

to be honest im not wanting to do a complete rebuild i juat want to make sure its all ok before i slot it in place, its had no problems in the past its a good runner, when i drained the oil it came out clean to looks like its been looked after (or just had a change) can i block the hole is the block off and just use the breather off the rocker cover?

so basically with the pulleys i can just junk the pas pump at the top and run the bottom the way they are (with a shorter belt), is it true the belt can catch on the inside wing?

engine mounts im ok with and inlet side of things cus im using the inlet off a xr3i cvh with one of jano's plates, exhaust im a bit worried about, someone said a st170 one will fit but im not sure about that,

and what about clutch and flywheel, i take it i need a mk4 clutch, but can use the zetec flywheel as it has the cutouts for the sensor?

cheers in advance your a star!
__________________

89 3i zetec
mk3 toy
http://www.passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=161433
sexr3i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2006, 03:18 PM   #18
sexr3i
isn't it
 
sexr3i's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nuneaton, Warks
Posts: 589
Send a message via MSN to sexr3i
Default

problem is, you never know how the previous owner treated it. I made sure that i had a full/decent service record and tons of receipts with my donor car, even tho it was just 300 quid cos the body was shot. drove it home 40 miles to make sure it was sweet.

my neighbour has a mondeo that i service for him, 170k miles and no signs of burning oil, he treats it well. we change the oil regularly, and he always lets it tickover for a minute before he drives off. Things I always do is get in the car, start the engine and then put seatbelt on and radion n that so the ol gets a few seconds to get up the head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillBill
My Zetec burns oil like crazy and its done 130k... I get blue smoke out the back if I floor it, so I'm pretty sure the rings need attention. This is my main reason for wanting to rebuild / replace the engine.

That said, I have heard reports that this can also be caused by problems in the bottom end... has anyone experienced issues like this, and if so, what was the cause ?

TBH I was surprised my engine has kicked the bucket at 130k, I see loads of other Zetecs at 150-200 and they still seem fine.
__________________

89 3i zetec
mk3 toy
http://www.passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=161433
sexr3i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2006, 03:52 PM   #19
Moondust_crust
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: under the cabby... i think.
Posts: 975
Default

i just dont like that massive box sitting on the front of the engine and wondered what other people had done.

ive sent xr4x4rs a pm but he cant remember the belt he used, said he wil ask his mate cus he uses the same belt so will get me the part number.

yes mate old management, dont see why it should need setting up, same ecu and inlet so all the sensors just plug straight in, also its efi so that makes it all the easier.

ahh good news about the clutch and flywheel then, and the gearbox will just bolt straight up?

if i could have them diagrams mate that would be handy too, cheers mate.
__________________


Very Nice Very Tastefull.......
Moondust_crust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2006, 07:55 PM   #20
KillBill
Virgin
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 8
Send a message via MSN to KillBill
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sexr3i
problem is, you never know how the previous owner treated it. I made sure that i had a full/decent service record and tons of receipts with my donor car, even tho it was just 300 quid cos the body was shot. drove it home 40 miles to make sure it was sweet.

my neighbour has a mondeo that i service for him, 170k miles and no signs of burning oil, he treats it well. we change the oil regularly, and he always lets it tickover for a minute before he drives off. Things I always do is get in the car, start the engine and then put seatbelt on and radion n that so the ol gets a few seconds to get up the head.
I do the same, in fact I try and never rev it above 2kish until it's warmed up too. In the mornings I normally start the car, then take off the anti theft device, throw my coat in the back, connect my MP3 player, etc. I never just drive off.
I'm well used to waiting a minute anyway, as I normally drive old Citroens, and give the suspension a good while to rise before moving.

Pity it seems too late for this car .
I've been looking into the possibility of a second hand engine today, but I really don't know where to get one thats not trashed. Was talking to the local scrapper, and he said £150 for one, but thats with totally unknown history and no guarentee whatsoever.... I found about 15 Mondeos in the yard, mostly diesel, but a few 1.8 and 2.0 petrols... most had mileage similar to, or higher than mine. I found one in an estate that had only done 80k, but someone had removed the leads and plugs, and left the bonnet lying open

I did find a nice 2.5 Duratec V6 too, but it was in a Mk2 that someone had removed the bonnet of, so it was lying there exposed...

Mind you, an engine would be much easier to rebuild if it wasn't in the car....
KillBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2006, 08:59 PM   #21
Moondust_crust
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: under the cabby... i think.
Posts: 975
Default

theres some ones on ebay mate but as you say you dont know how they have been treated, took the rocker cover off mine today and its mint under there, the alloy isnt even stained, but my mate bought a zetec the other day, had done 55k and to be honest it looked like it hadnt had an oil change in years and years. good luck.
cheers mark.
__________________


Very Nice Very Tastefull.......
Moondust_crust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2006, 04:08 PM   #22
sexr3i
isn't it
 
sexr3i's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nuneaton, Warks
Posts: 589
Send a message via MSN to sexr3i
Default

Best bet is to look in bargain section of auto trader or similar, a 1.8 escort/ 2.0 mondeo with FSH but rotten and failed mot on wishbones or something for example where it's not worth fixing. go look at it, take it for a run, ignore any suspension noises etc but just feel for any flat spots, look for any smoke etc.

Thing with using the old management on the new engine is, the 1.6 ecu will think it's running the cvh. even with the cvh inlet, sensors etc plugged in, you're now gona be running a 16 valve engine with different power delivery, fuelling/timing requirements etc so you'll not get the best out of the engine until it's been set up. worst case scenario, it'd be running wrong enough to melt something.

Yeah, assuming the zetec clutch has plenty of meat left on it you can bolt the whole assembly straight into the cvh bellhousing without touching it. if you've ever mated an engine and box before then you'll know about getting the clutch onto the input shaft so it'll need a wiggle but once popped in you're done.

Piccy of cooling system below, you need a t peice in the bottom rad hose or you'll end up with 1 too many hoses which will empty itself onto your drive within seconds some people block off one of the hoses to the thermostat, but thats not gona help cooling is it?

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________

89 3i zetec
mk3 toy
http://www.passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=161433
sexr3i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2006, 04:49 PM   #23
KillBill
Virgin
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 8
Send a message via MSN to KillBill
Default

That's good advice there mate, in fact I bought the autotrader this afternoon to look for a shunter

Cheers
KillBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2006, 04:51 PM   #24
Moondust_crust
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: under the cabby... i think.
Posts: 975
Default

it'd be running wrong enough to melt something.


not good then, so from your sig i can see you have used the zetec manifold? what wiring do you have to change to run the new engine then, its an efi car so apparently it makes it easier.

thanx for all your help mate i do appreciate it
__________________


Very Nice Very Tastefull.......
Moondust_crust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2006, 07:59 PM   #25
sexr3i
isn't it
 
sexr3i's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nuneaton, Warks
Posts: 589
Send a message via MSN to sexr3i
Default

I used the entire zetec loom, inlet and ecu, my car was mfi and i switched to the efi zetec management. There was a fair amount of wiring involved, had to put together a fusebox and mini-loom to feed the ecu, lambda and get the ignition lives and change fuel pump and ignition relays. On an efi 3i, I wouldn't say it's any easier really, we just use your existing fuel pump relay. Still needs the new fusebox and loom section.

It's not the only way to go about things but IMO, value for money-wise etc then using the management that previously had the engine running is the best way. Other people do it your way and use their old management and a conversion plate for the inlet altho I don't regard it as optimal compared to the "proper" setup that the engine was running on from the factory.

You'll then have to shell out for management that you can map to suit the new engines requirements, although again, there is an upside to that as when you inevitably decide you want more power, you can add your tuning goodies and have it mapped again to suit on a reasonable budget. and when you swap to a bigger lump, get just needs a re-map and you're laughing. Initial outlay is more, but if you're keeping the car then you're sorted for future modifications rather than having to keep swapping looms and ecu's.

I've got my engine in and running on the zetec setup, had it in for almost a year I think, I'll be running throttle bodies hopefully this year so I'll get it mapped, then once it's had a shakedown period with the 1.8 still in, I'll fit a 2.0/2.1 that I've been planning for a while and re-map it. Saves risking anything not working properly on the new engine and shagging it by fitting it all at once and something breaking.
__________________

89 3i zetec
mk3 toy
http://www.passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=161433
sexr3i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-04-2006, 07:59 PM
PassionFord
Ford Focus




Paid Advertisement


 
 
 
submit to reddit
Reply

Tags
18, 25, breather, cooling, dont, engine, goes, im, lead, mondeo, pictures, rebuilding, set, system, xr3i, zetec

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Advertising - Terms of Service - Privacy Statement - JOBS



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:04 AM.


This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2