stuarty26

hi all im stuart im quite new on this forum. Im rebuilding a series 2 rs turbo which is nearly done. Im on the rsonersclub forum also.

Im starting to plan the next build but defo Ill need advice with it.

Id like a 75 to 80 escort, and i plan to strip it. im aiming to:
Mondeo zetec 1.8
Type 9 5 speed with the spigot
Zetec 1800 clutch, friction plate and westfield bearing,
Custom exhaust
Think i need 200 or 220lbs front springs,
Prefer the 1300, 1600 or custom prop.
Standard diff including driveshafts
Think i need stiffer rear leafs
Possibly standard discs and drums
Probabably the mondeo 1800 cooling system
Going for mk1/2 escort plain interior rather than concourse resto
Paint is either outer respray or depending on shell, original colour match.

Now, lol, id like to use this as a daily runner so, 10 miles per day to work, 100 mile round trip twice a week to the mrs, plus the tesco runs. Probably 1000 miles per month.

The main things Im looking for is the efficiency of the modern day electric ignition and reliable fuel system. Id also like decent mpg 35mpg would be attractive.

From studying so far, i have the haynes and some good zetec conversion guides. It seems bike carbs or weber 40's is the way to go for the zetec 1800 but Im lost when it comes to ignition or fitting a distributor.

Im not looking for horsepower, more daily efficiency. In not gona be looking at cosworth or kent parts, 100 to 130hp is probably fine. Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction? My instincts leading me to do a carbs conversion as usual and have them tuned for efficiency but before i give in im going to continue the efi conversion study.

I don't know enough about carburettors, iv got my eye on the haynes carbs manual, i don't know how they are for fuel efficiency or if there designed more for performance, and i don't know how reliable they are during peak winter -6degrees etc. Help understanding there use would be great for this build.

Guides and info is appreciated, il keep searching the passion forums looking for info.

turbo m

iTrader: (2)

A rs 2000 prop is needed can buy new from burtons. A really good heater[modern one] if using in winter. Try retro ford ltd web site...

gingeRS

Looks like a good plan, 35 mpg from bike carbs though is optimistic!!

Decent mk2 shells are strong money though!!

Fraserb

If you want that power reliably then why not drop in a 2.0 zetec and just leave it on standard management?

stuarty26

Thanks for quick responses,

I don't understand how to keep original management. If its taking the mondeo ecu and loom, inlet manifold and im sure i can fit a cat with lambda's, if this is a goer id be happy.

Its a side of building im no sure about, iv started reading into it now tho.

I see folk with the 1800 zetec on carbs claiming 140hp 35mpg and regular use of the car so this has put a twist on my fueling plan.

Thanks for leading me to retro ford thats answering lots of questions,

mightysprocket

Bike carbs are great for economy if set up properly. I had them on a 1760 crossflow and got 30mpg. Zetecs are great lumps but you could easily use as a daily with the 1300 xflow it will come with, have you found an estate yet? They don't come cheap. Have a look on oldskoolford for all things classic

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

You use a 1.6 zetec loom ( fiesta is or mk6 escort si) with a dewy , desk code ecu.

Or you can just get a 130ps xr3i amd run the engine,and loom from that. There all external pats so no immobiliser issues.

It's 7 wires to connect up to get it running.

stuarty26

Hi all cheers for the input, excellent,

Iv been reading about electronic ignition which led me to Megajolt for zetec engines.
It seems megajolt is also suited for a carb conversion, fair enough. Anyone able to write up efficiency and use of this?

Now i think i could hold a conversation about ecu controls, i think im better using the mondeo 1.8 ecu, pretty sure it'l fit and allow for tuning.

Im not sure about this, fuel injection system has to be located, should include inlet manifold, pump, filter, regulator and injectors, so with stanard management at least i know everything plugs together ok but..... Im no sue it cant be as easy as that??

If i strip a mondy 1.8, i think all im leaving behind is the power steering, gearbox & fusebox? I think im even taking the heater matrix.

Now this is a big question, what if i took the dash clocks? Is it too much to expect the engine management and warning lights to transfer across? I guess this leads to 'when do you stop' and i end up fitting the whole mondy dash board? Lol

I defo need the info i appreciate everything so far!

Im gona start collecting parts before i get a shell. Im looking for a saloon, 3 or 5 door, prefer no vinyl roof,

Cheers all.

dingla rs

iTrader: (2)

Why would you run all the , zetec on carbz
40s will do the trick

stuarty26

Bike carbs are more efficient? Standard 1.8 efi management is more efficient again, and mappable? Electric coil pack ignition is less hassle?

I might be wrong im new to this but, twin 40's whilst might be fantastic gear, might not be suited for this plan?

More info welcome, im still looking at management systems etc,

dingla rs

iTrader: (2)

I have lot friends with mk2 some with zetecs most
With pintos none run efi infact I don't think I
Seen one run that system but fair game for
Been different

stuarty26

Pinto's on webers looks fantastic, i think the zetecs on carbs looks fantastic also and whilst its a definate contender, id impress myself if i can more or less drop a 1.8 mondeo efi setup inc inlet manifold, cat, fuel system and management inc obd into a mk2.

I want to get the planning complete so when the time comes its not neccessarily an expensive build but certainly a smart build to produce a reliable 30 year old car.

Havent got to suspension and brakes yet, if i can use the mondeo parts here i think il get a mk3 mondeo tattoo, zetec of course.lol

Appreciating the input here! Cheers!

alistairolsen

Going against the grain here, but use a vauxhall xe engine, or an ecotec. I say that because the ecotec especially is cheap, but comes with a much more friendly loom and ecu than the zetec (which is quite frankly a nightmare, I've done both personally)

stuarty26

Iv never looked at vauxhalls before, but for this project iv even considered a bmw 316 compact,

What options for clutch and gearbox are available for the vauxhalls? Does it leave room for efi or carbs tuned for efficiency?

Iv heard of the redtops etc but... Not sure id need to take it to google

Daveysaff

iTrader: (9)

Is there a specific reason you want the 1.8 rather than the 2.0?
Most economical swap would be to leave it on efi, use an engine loom from an early non PATS escort, and as said its only 7 wires to get it going.
Have a look at the mk4 escort zetec convesion guide on here, that'll tell you all about the wiring side of things
You wont need the cat either

alistairolsen

There are the R25 or R29 RWD boxes from the omega which will fit with the respective clutch, or the older manta box which is getting hard to get hold of, or SBD make bellhousings for the ford type 9 if you dont mind putting your hand in your pocket.

There is no such thing as putting "efficient" and "carbs" in the same sentence. Much better using the original EFI from the point of view of driveability and economy, I wouldnt want anything else in a daily tbh.

The "redtop" is the C20XE and the ecotec is the x20xev in terms of engine codes. Mountains of info online. If you're determined to go carbs however there is little point, I only suggest them because of the ease of transplant (9 wires to join)

dawesy1700

With regards to.bike carbs and mpg, i have a mk2 escort with a 1660 xflow, usual goodies, last time.on the.rollers it made 120bhp, in town on ninja carbs it'll do almost 25mpg, on good day, but motorway i.regularly had over 40mpg, my pb was 46 coming back from the pod, but for everyday use I'd listen to the lads above, try n stick with the standard induction etc.

stuarty26

Hi folks thanks for keeping the input coming,

Iv sketched out proven plans for a 1800 zetec carb conversion thats cost effective,
1800 blacktop
1800 standard clutch
Type 9 rwd box
Rs2000 prop
Rs2000 diff and rear axle
Custom exhaust
Custom inlets to house carbs or modified standard inlet with silicone connections
Carbs Twin weber 40's / zx7r / r1's
Megajolt

I think this is pretty standard, there are brilliant guides out there but i questioned the whole carb conversion.

My next questions will relate to efi,
I dont understand what no pats is, from an escort?
The mk4 efi conversions iv seen are fiesta rs turbo's, i considered this for my own rs turbo build but then i backed out and stuck with the mfi setup.
Like the above list of carb conversion main components, i need to do the same for standard efi - i assume here braking a 1800 mondeo will provide everything i need, with exceptions of exhaust etc, obvious parts

Heres a big question, does the cat converter come with the engine or the car? Will a 1979 shell require the cat even with a 1999 to 2002 engine fitted on efi?

Il probable head to suspension options next, before brakes.

I appreciate the info, big thanks for posting mpg's on carbs!

alistairolsen

Last time I checked Im sure cat was related to the age of the car and thus you wont need one as someone said above.

For efi, you need an engine and its manifolds and sensors, then the ecu and loom. This is where the difficulty comes. In an early non-PATS ford, or the vauxhalls I mentioned, the engine loom comes out separately from the car loom, they are joined only by a few wires, which are things like revcounter feed, ignition switched live etc and are easy to wire into a 1979 escort.

If however you use the PATS ecu and loom, it is far more integrated into the car, the wiring colours arent standard from one year to the next and the immobiliser is a nightmare. Like I say, having done both, I'd take the vauxhall engine any day unless you can find a cheap non-PATS loom and ecu.

stuarty26

Ok, iv very quickly found DEEP, DESK, DEWY, & BLOB?
i think im refering to ecu types,

I think DEWY will come with a 2001 1800 blacktop?
I think DEEP & DESK are older multiplug systems that work on DEWY ECU's and can wire up quicker?

I think this is all complicated, but unless it gets spelled out for me, the way to take the guts of the mondeo and to put it all in the escort is to take everything including the ignition key... And the dash... And the lamdas...

I think non-pats could be the way to go.

Theres posts above that suggest different looms etc ill need to swerve the suspension and brakes. I think iv found the reason there arent more mk2 escort efi's

Im a bit stuck

alistairolsen

Like I keep saying, ignore PATS equipped ecu types and all the other zetec gubbins on the internet, if EFI isnt something you're familiar with you have a snowballs chance in hell on that path.

Either go zetec and use a pre pats loom and ecu, or go the vauxhall route with the oem loom and ecu.

stuarty26

Cheers alistair i think your right. Im looking at 2 options now,

1. 1800 zetec on carbs, theres enough carbs around to make a good conversion. Probably a cracking project with a good result, i think something i would be happy with.

2. Take on a 1.8 petrol mondeo as a donor car and take everything, including keys, dash clocks, ecu and full loom. Have a lengthy fight with the loom trying to minimise duplicate wires, have another lengthy fight with the inlet manifold... Probably fit the mondeo ignition barrel and dash clocks... Thinking about it sounds easy but my head is bursting. On the downside theres way more work including customising and trial and error, i don't think lamda's can be cut out. On the upside there are many learning opprtunities, theres obdII, theres an efficient, economic result.

If there was a 3. It would be throttle bodies, i think carbs can offer alot on this comparison.

Whats folks thoughts on option 2 above?

Appreciate the advice its all taken on board as it should be.

stuarty26

Folks iv found classic ford mag engine swap guide
Its for a zetec efi on the mt75 box, think it goes into an anglia.

It lists parts, mounts and engine mods and ecu. and like alot of people have said, uses non-pats eec-IV? il print the guide tomorrow. For the time being ill read about brakes and suspension.

Cheers for the info folks, last few days have been good for info,

alistairolsen

At the risk of banging my head on a wall here, either use a pre pats loom, or use a different engine.

stuarty26

I hear you alistair, honestly the penny just dropped. Very sound advice, now iv read guides and efi builds my take on this has changed. Cheers.

stuarty26

Hi folks, over the last few days iv been looking at ford zetec eecIV setups. Iv ordered engine management books to help, im quite new to this idea, anyway

Looking at zetec carb conversions, any chance i can get an idea what setups people are going for? Not to steal your setups but to understand the flexibility of this setup with an interest of efficiency, performance and use (daily, trackday, etc etc)

At this point im loking for
Zetec 1800
Raceline inlet
Zx7r carbs
Standard exhaust manifold, decat.
5 speed type 9 box
Standard engine mounts - possibly housed 15mm infront of original

As im aimng for as close to daily use, im aiming for carbs tuned for efficiency

What setup have you got? Whats your use? Fuel efficiencys? Happy with it?

Cheers folks, mife come in later with similar with efi when i understand more

dingla rs

iTrader: (2)

you been on turbosport yet?

stuarty26

Yes, i got the zetec efi conversion guide from here
I got the zetec ino a mk1/2 escort with carb conversion from classicformag

Iv got a haynes day planner i use to study this stuff so i try to get new info written each day, theres alot to take in. id like to get real examples,

ideally id like efi but in reality i mite need to go carbs,

Id be happy if i could run bike carbs, megajolt with edis, tuned for daily use 35mpg on the motorway.

stuarty26

Whats suspension is used after a carb or efi conversion?

Is the standard mk2 escort ok? Does we keep the leaf springs or is a conversion required?

Looking for tips again

Rollin Rides

im currently fitting a 2001 standard 2.0 blacktop zetec engine on a type9 box on the standard ecu with the coded key and 16pin ecu reader there isnt that many wires really, ive helped a mate fit a st170 engine and ecu into a mk4 escort with the coded key and vvti and lots of people said its not possible but its been in a running for the last two years and done 10,000miles.
if you are ok with wiring and autodata its easy!!!!
ive been told mine with its 4-2-1 manifold and 1.8 flywheel no pas or aircon running the type 9 should be around 150bhp so hopefully it will drift if not back to the drawing board

stuarty26

Cheers for that post rollin! Nice examples of the eec-v being used. I assume a good donor makes it.

For brakes and suspension options for carb or efi, i think im gona talk to burtonpower and retroford. If anyone can throw some ideas in here too thatd be brilliant.

stuarty26

Rollin where is the vss going on the type 9 box? Does it accomodate it?

alistairolsen

Brakes and suspension entirely depends how far you want to go tbh. A lot of people keep leaf springs with success, especially for an entirely road based car, but 5 linking and coilovers undoubtedly offers better location (but significant expense the the complication of potential IVA implications).

For the front, the biggest problem is the antiroll bar, which also acts as the tie rods to the front crossmember. The simplest mod is an addition mount in the centre of the crossmember to remove some of the bending, but after this youre into compression struts and a separate antiroll bar.

stuarty26

Ok folks, is there any chance i can have this confirmed and amended where it needs to be. 2 engine and gearbox options. Where iv left blanks or a number of options basically means iv not got a clue yet. Id say its coming together.lol

Engine 1:
Mondeo zetec 1800 blacktop
Lucas 17ACR alternator ebay Ł50
mondeo zetec 1800 blacktop waterpump
ZETEC RWD WET SUMP (Z007) Retro ford Ł388

Engine 2:
Escort zetec 1800 silvertop
Lucas ACR alternator ebay Ł50
mondeo zetec 1800 blacktop waterpump
ZETEC RWD WET SUMP (Z007) Retro ford Ł388

Transmission for Carbs 1:
Type 9 5 speed
Burton Power spigot 21x15 for zetec to type 9 5speed Ł13retroford Ł6 Burtonpower
Sierra 2.0 sandwich plate finis 6559240 or homemade
zetec 1800 blacktop flywheel 36-1
Zetec 1800 blacktop clutch
zetec 1800 blacktop friction plate
westfield clutch release bearing with 20mm spacer
Standard Cable operated Clutch arm
RS2000 prop or
ZETEC PROPSHAFT (Z042)FOR MK 1/2 ESCORT, FITTED WITH A ZETEC ENGINE, TYPE 9/ROCKET GEARBOX COMBINATION 109MM DIFF FLANGE FITS ENGLISH AND ATLAS AXLES HEAVEY DUTY YOKES Ł154retroford.

Transmission for carbs 2:
MT75 5 Speed box from Sierra or Scorpio 2.0 DOHC
Blocked VSS
Burton Power spigot 21x15 for zetec to MT75 5speed Ł13retroford Ł6 Burtonpower
Sierra 2.0 sandwich plate finis 6559240 or homemade
zetec 1800 blacktop flywheel 36-1
Zetec 1800 blacktop clutch
zetec 1800 blacktop friction plate
westfield clutch release bearing with 20mm spacer
Cable operated Clutch arm
RS2000 prop

Rear Axle: NEED AN EXAMPLE OF A PROVEN SYSTEM
Standard Rear axle prefered
Atlas axle
Sierra 2.0 DOHC 3.62 Differential ebay etc. ŁPOA

Inlet manifold:
ZETEC E Inlet Manifold to Suit ZX6R DANST Engineering ebay Ł179.99
Raceline Ł110 desinged to take weber 45's
Bogg Brother custom fabrication, ŁPOA.

Exhaust manifold:
ZETEC EXHAUST MANIFOLD (Z029) MK 1 / 2 ESCORT, 4-2-1 DESIGN MADE FROM MILD STEEL with 2 1/4" OUTLET Ł197 Burtonpower
Custom mid section and rear section. ŁPOA.

Fuel system: NEED AN EXAMPLE OF A PROVEN FUEL SYSTEM
Kawasaki ZX6R proven for efficiency
Facet Sytec Adjustable fuel pressure regulator 1psi to 5psi. for facet solid and interrupter type pumps. ebay Ł25
fuel Pump options:
Facet Solid State Road Fuel Pump 12v Negative Earth 25gln/hr Pressure 3.0-4.5 PSI Mount Near Tank ebay Ł34
FACET SILVER TOP FUEL PUMP INTERUPTER TYPE designed for carburettors ebay Ł54

Electrics:
Starter ZETEC RWD STARTER MOTOR (Z020) retroford
Alternator ALTERNATOR FOR ZETEC APPLICATION (Z023)ACR TYPE 70 AMP
Fusebox standard.

Ignition: NEED AN EXAMPLE OF A PROVEN SYSTEM
Megajolt EDIS-4 ECU Ł249.99
Engine sensors taken from Zetec Donor Loom EECIV
Omex 200 ECU ignition only Ł345 Raceline
Omex wiring loom for ignition only Ł90 Raceline
EMERALD ENGINE MANAGEMENT ECU (E002)EMERALD K3 ECU COMES WITH ECU CONNECTOR, ENABLING YOU TO MAKE YOUR OWN WIRING LOOM Ł696.00 Retroford (not sure this is nor carb or EFi)

Cooling system:
Standard mk2 radiator or donor vehicle radiator fabricated to fit.
Standard fitting radiator with no fan ebay Ł115 to Ł200
Standard fitting radiator with fan ebay Ł290 upwards
Raceline or retroford water rail including thermostat Ł197retroford
Silicone hose kits

Body and Chassis
Mk2 Escort 1975 to 1980
Cross Member, standard from car
ZETEC STANDARD ENGINE MOUNTS (Z001) Retroford Ł75.00
Front Suspension is allowed to remain standard possible spring options 170lbs to 190lbs Ł21 - Ł34 Burtonpower
standard bearings, standard dampner, standard track control arm, hubs etc.
Rear Suspension is allowed to remain standard.Single leaf spring 146lbs: Mk2 Escort (60mm wide) Ł53 BurtonPower
Steering rack is allowed to remain standard.
Gearbox Tunnel raise plate Ł23 Retroford

Brakes: NEED AN EXAMPLE OF SYSTEM
can original brakes work
Donor car caliper/drum conversion all round
relocation of servo and master cylinder - to where?
MK 2 ESCORT BIAS PEDAL BOX-CABLE CLUTCH (BC006MK2C) Ł249retroford

Cockpit heater Matrix:
ideally fan and motor from donor car.

Interior:
Speedo - driven from type 9 box, or MT75speedo cable Ł17 Burtonpower
RPM -
Temp Guage -
Fuel sender - original in tank setup.
Other electrics will remain with original fusebox.



Its alot of reading, Cheers folks,

cjay2004

u cant use a rs2000 prop on an mt75 gearbox....they have a fixed output flange which means the rs2000 prop end cannot fit...

Rollin Rides

mk2mania

our estate is used on a regular basis, and returns very good mpg, even with a 4.1 diff it will still hit 115 and bobs on at 75/80 on the motorway nicely,, we run a 20 zetec on 1800 rs ecu and inlet ( this allows us to run standerd brake servo ), we always get 104 hp @ wheels ,, the car is bomb proof, we have done loads of track days, its been round the ring, and its still goin a few years on ,, the conversion is well worth doin

http://s187.beta.photobucket.com/use...scort%20estate