thunder saloon

right folks the old 3dr btcc sierra "parts shelf" i have is being moved into the garage before christmas to start the restoration. it may take some time but i am trying to source any form of history of the car.
I currently have nothing bar the bare shell.
The air vents on the rear arches seem to be the identifying part to me as none i have seen have the same ones. the arches are all fibreglass so may not be original but looking at the rest of the shell they dnt look out of place. it has no vin number which does not surprise me for an old motorsport shell.

please take the time to look at the pictures and if you even May have info it would be much appreciated. to any contributors and mad fezzer who has already offerd any help thanks in advance. dougie.

http://s1084.photobucket.com/albums/...ndersaloon500/

thunder saloon

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

looking forward to this build ,best of luck with it

JonnyBravo

Tony Ryan may know something about the car, also try the ten tenths forum as a few old racers are on there

Touring Car Spares

iTrader: (6)

Ive really resisted replying to this since i first saw it , lol .
Any possible originality ,and im not saying theres any visible evidence left of it if there ever was any, has been cut out of this one , it looks to me like the cage was welded in after the mods to front and rear towers and the floor was made making this a built up special rather an ex BTCC shell. Having said that lots of good work has been done to fit the Solid rear axle and acres of chassis mods to the front have been made, possibly the result of an interesting engine choice at some time in its life although none of this would have been allowed to a touring car of the GpA period , neither was a wide arch bodykit allowed which puts this firmly in the "thundersaloons" period of the late 80's and early 90's . Airjacks are and always have been a popular and neccessary mod to cars that run with low ride height and possibly the need for pit-stops , they are of the older "bigger "diameter tho so thats an interesting way of dating it to that period .Is there any chassis number or unusual build plaques anywhere on it that may help ??

JonnyBravo

I have a DVD of mine from Mallory in 1993, there are a couple of sierras in the footage, Rod Birley was running the prelude and Pete Stevens in the Carlton etc

I'd imagine there are plenty of pics of the cars in action from back then, I've struggled to find any close ups of mine, ideally you need to find out who converted it as they may have some more detailed pics.

thunder saloon

thanks for your replies guys.

as i said i am completely unsure of exact origin but managed to get bill greer of greer sport engineering ltd have a look just after i bought it and he said along the same lines as yourself with the exception of the fact he thought it may have been one of a few special builds by gertac based on btcc cars. but was sure it was an rs500 shell due to something about the front chassis leg "gussets". he also confirmed that the work must have been done by gertac that he suspected 4wd with some kind of v8 and that the front subframe assy is a world cup crossmember that i will likely have to manufacture bottom arms for.

i am by no means anywhere near an expert but i am certainly mechanically minded and have done my fair share of work on cosworths, subaru's etc including a few "grpa" cars including a couple of fast ford feature cars so dont mind how long it takes to complete but my main criteria is that it must be reliable and well put together as i dont want to be constantly breaking things and it must be safer than safe as i will, once used to the car, push it to its limits as it should be driven.

i have never found any form of id or even writing on the car apart from the windscreen that is split electirc heating, is around 7 layers thick and has motorsport printed on it. is there anywhere it may be hidden as there is no floor number and it certainly looks original around that area apart from the seat runners and when you look underneath the panel there is no indent where they should be.


??????

Touring Car Spares

iTrader: (6)

I would call Gartrac ( ) if i was you and ask them , its plain that the car was built for use with the sort of Gp4 Escort / Capri rolling kit that they would be able to discuss .

lee2cossies

iTrader: (2)

It's looks very similar to Denis Moody's gaa v6 powered xr4 rally car. That had an atlas rear end on it and was built by gartrac, obviously it had the split xr4 side windows but they could have been cut out at a later date, check the gartrac website there's some photos and a write up on there.

thunder saloon

still struggling lol.
spoke to rod birley this morning and its guaranteed not to be the porche car as it is now a space frame car that he knows is still existing and the gaa powered xr4i is not the same car either. i have contacted gartrac and am awaiting response from them.

was looking at prices for running gear this may be FAR more expensive than first thought still doing it though. just need to finish and sell a few of my cars!

anyone got more info pplleeaassee!

madfezzer

id do your home work first, last thing you want to do is start buying expensive parts and things for a car thats worth less money complete than it is in bits. probably why it ended up the way it is today

rod birleys porsche engined car is now bloomfields mid engined one

id say if youve got a spare 20k+ handy then that would about get it near complete ,and i know of a few complete competitive sierras for less money!

id forget the idea of rebiulding as an ex btcc car as all or at least 99% are accounted for and the amount of body reworking and parts would make it financially prohobitive

in my view the car has seen some hard competion from rallying(windscreen) and circuit racing and would yeld its self to becoming another special saloon

in summary ,better to move it on or use it for spares? shame

thunder saloon

i dont have a spare 20k lying around but will not be moving it on and will not be giving up on this car! but do agree with that budget as i have quickly guestimated between 15 to 20k already without going down the cosworth route and going v8

i have a few tricks up my sleeve for cash this year coming so will be starting it after christmas. we all know that best laid plans never go to plan so will be just taking it step by step

i appreciate whats being said though and as i cant find any history then i may just build it as a special. It may take a couple of years but will be worth it as i do not intend on selling it when completed, i intend to use it for recreational motorsport.
i have a good bit of welding and repair work to be doing before buying parts to start building.

chrisyeovil

that need a v8! will be very interested in following this project good luck and good for you for not giving up on it!!

paprst

(rod birleys)


This shell has potential for sure !!!
At least i will look cool !!!

thunder saloon

unfortunately it looks nothing like that anymore rod confirmed today that it was chopped up and turned into a space frame monster but very very cool indeed.

i think its one of those very rare cars that would be a pleasure to build and keep

as someone else said to be sensible is to be boring

madfezzer

this is it

rallycross

That is horrendous they should be shot for creating that ugly monster out of a genuine saloon racer.

TheSpiderMan

Michael Blomfields car was wrecked in a racing incident at Oulton park 4 years ago in the CNC Heads BARC North West Championship, and was broken for parts. I currently race a modified XR2 Mk2 Fiesta 1.6 CVH in this series, and hope next season to have my own Sierra Cosworth Thundersaloon ready to race in this series next year.

Suggestion for thundersaloon - if you want big bhp, are doing a full rebuild, and not keeping to original, consider a V6 Nissan twin turbo. Ric Wood of CNC Heads is doing some rather nice engines!!

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

how does the price of these nissan engines compare to a cosworth engine mate?

TheSpiderMan

In my experience with engines built by Ric, it depends on what power and what reliability you want. His Skyline engines can develope massive bhp if money is no object, but then you will have to obviously think about the extra load on running gear, brakes etc. Have a look at www.ricwood.com When you see the stuff he does on the web site you will appreciate these are not just a back street engine tuner. Ric did my 1.6 cvh for my fiesta, it is still 1600cc, and normally aspirated but pushes out 163bhp, is reliable and the torque curve is steady.
He will be reworking my YB200 enine for me, and does most of the engines of fellow racers I know.

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Very interesting

Sadly if this ever was a group A car then everything group A has either been removed or cut out and replaced

As Tony Says it has bigger larger Air jack towers so realy dates it around the BTCC cars

A shame that a lot of these old shells have been modded so much its almost impossible to place them by looking at the shell

Only way is to try a trace previous owners until you either get the good news or the not so good news

IMO the shell has been modded far to much to try and put back to run the std cossie set up anyway , either group A or std

A nice thing to put a big v8 etc into tho

Paul

Ps, a lot of old group A race car history is starting to turn up on my website

www.rs500owners.com

ozmk1cos

As much as I am a fan of ford a chevy lsx and decent box would make it a potent car

Turbosimpsons

iTrader: (3)

Would trying to find out its original color not help to find its original owner.

R59

This, I believe is the ex-JQF/FINA BTCC Car which became the Stuart Donnan Thundersaloon dramatically modified by Empress Race Developments in Chatteris, Cambs.

I was told that it had been sold overseas, along with the ex-Jason Dell Merc 190, but the more I look, I'm thinking it was Brian Chatfields ex-Lawrence Bristow car that went overseas and has come back (looking at the pic earlier in this thread showing a Merc 190, next to a multi-coloured RS500 which was the Chatfield car - that Martin Johnson has returned to original spec IIRC.

Now, this car - driven by Chris Hodgetts in the last round of the '89 series at Silverstone - finished 4th, he told me less than an hour ago - "it was a quick car".

The Donnan brothers had it, and after having one of the Empress tended cars run rings round it at Oulton Park, they shifted the running of the car to the Chatteris based outfit. They modified this thing dramatically over time. It last ran a 2.4 Mountune built motor that turned out some 740hp, but needed a refresh every 6hrs of running. When you consider how much testing, practice, qualifying and racing was done, that was every other meeting nearly! It had a Winters Quickchange "NASCAR" axle fitted towards the end - hence the 5-link setup. The Capri type front end gives it away as an Empress car, they had this setup pretty well sorted, very well sorted!

The last build on this car before Thundersaloons was assassinated by the BRSCC/Brands Hatch idiot ideas department, included a 4x4 system - may have been XTrac, not 100%, which meant a fair bit of extra work to the shell.

If you still have this shell "thunder saloon" - I hope you have it stored safely, or have it on the way to being rebuilt.

Sadly, Empress Race Developments are no more so you can't go phoning them up for help.

I have one of their other works of art of that era, the V**xh*ll Belmont. Now also fitted with a V8, but with a Ford 9" axle up it's rear because the Atlas didn't appreciate 600lb/ft of torque.

Finding this thread has helped put one mystery to bed I think. The other is where was that picture taken of the Merc & RS500, and where is the Merc?

Rob
#59

R59

Sadly this too has been re-arranged into almost scrap. Michael will hopefully rebuild it.

As a "Special Saloon" this thing was awesomely quick.

Long before Michael bought it, after Rod sold it, it became known as "Black Thunder" and ran a big block V8 (Pontiac I think as they were available in alloy). It was a beast to behold.
It had "Black Thunder Approaches" on the front bumper.

R59

Just thought I drag you back into this thread kicking and screaming... hopefully you'll get a notification...

JonnyBravo

Hi Rob,

Some good info there and they certainly sounds promising !

Touring Car Spares

iTrader: (6)

Could be a good spot Rob , so few pics of that car out there to compare tho isn't there.

lee2cossies

iTrader: (2)

That's interesting. There must be someone out there that can confirm its origins!

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

good info mate ,

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Interesting! So it was once this car?

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

I enjoy threads like this. Very interesting info there.

R59

That's it...

The Rob Cox "Black Thunder" was originally the Rod Birley Sierra-Porsche, then became Michael Blomfield's special saloon.

R59

I've searched the internurd many times, coming up with very little on Stuart Donnan's car in anything of it's early form.

I remember it with the C-Fresh livery quite vividly, and then as it stood in the corner at Empress' workshops being modified to accept the 4x4 running gear.



Earlier it looked like:

R59

And before that it was this:

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

have you ever seen this one before r59

Touring Car Spares

iTrader: (6)

4 stud wheels & hubs look like they gave way to a GpA Centrelock arrangement in the bigger shot then .

zippyka80

I could help with the empress racing car as my best mates dad worked there as workshop manger and I I've a photo of car so I should be able to help as he lives in march cambs the same as my mate so leave it with me

thundersaloon2

well it certainly looks like its solved, the way i understand is it was the unleaded jqf fina car. tried joining the rs500 site its discussed on and the previous owner has raised his head saying he still had some of the parts but no joy as yet.

the big project never really started but its still indoors, dry and not deteriorated any further.

im still looking for the id or chassis number for it aswell

anyone with contact details please pass them on
)

Sharon Becker Donnan

I would just like to know did you find any information about the car as I am highly interested to see if my dads car is still out there sitting in a garage rotting or has been restored