Another one going for 200mph!(full fia/msa spec caged racecar)

[turbotoaster]

Originally Posted by scoooby slayer a decent oil pump is around £800 but standard rods are ok ive got them in mine still, tweenie asked me will i ever want to go above 800 bhp and 8500 rpm on my bottom end and when i said no he said dont waste money on rods then, just tomei big end bolts. i think your car is the only realistic contender for the budget mate. the easiest and most reliable would be a supra 2jz gte base car but the budget would have to double at a guess. as said youve got a rebuilt engine for £6k all in i didnt know how much the pumps were but when someone on gtr owners club mention they are expensive you know they arent gonna be cheap lol the engine itself cost 3k, all the bolt ons and tuning is about 3.5k, to be fair if the engine hadnt had a water seal failure id be over 500bhp now as that 3k would have gone onto bolt ons, but thats life i suppose. I love the sound of big single 2jz engines, they are sexual!!! probably need about 750-800 in a supra due to it being a fat ass, so thats about 20k including buying the car i would imagine, leave bottom end stock, just cams and turbo etc

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[scoooby slayer]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

i didnt know how much the pumps were but when someone on gtr owners club mention they are expensive you know they arent gonna be cheap lol

the engine itself cost 3k, all the bolt ons and tuning is about 3.5k, to be fair if the engine hadnt had a water seal failure id be over 500bhp now as that 3k would have gone onto bolt ons, but thats life i suppose.

I love the sound of big single 2jz engines, they are sexual!!!

probably need about 750-800 in a supra due to it being a fat ass, so thats about 20k including buying the car i would imagine, leave bottom end stock, just cams and turbo etc

yeah mate i think £20k is a fair estimate. i was thinking of buying one but there doesnt seem to be any cheap ones as a good starting base, i personally wouldnt want to spend over £10k on a 500 + bhp car unless its 100 % had a pro engine build so supra was out for me due to budget. i will have one though eventually

it will be good to see how you get on with the rx7 too ive always fancied one just the engine put me off. but if you run 700 bhp on a virtually standard lump and it holds together ok then there another car i would be interested in owning

[turbotoaster]

thats the thing, up until last year noone had ever been able to develop internal parts for them, the rotors were just to complex to have made and with it being a limited market there wasnt much call for it.

So rotary guys had to make do with what they had, for example in drag racing theres a 13b running around 1300-1400bhp on methanol with stock rotors, yes its a massive port on it but the rotors are the same ones that came from the factory.

Dont get me wrong rotarys do have issues, they wont take any detonation at all and water seals do go eventually, but they are very cheap to rebuild and due to them only weighing just over 1200kg they dont need a massive amount of power to shift.

I do love supras though, i wouldnt mind having one myself but like you say, they are just out of my budget.

on a stock lump on pump fuel i think 500bhp is a reasonable target with good reliablity, anymore power than that and you either have to run race gas/E85 or take the engine apart to port it.

[ballin]

Originally Posted by stu21t

Depends what car.
If a Cossie I think youl b lucky.
If an e36 m3 I think it will b a piece of piss.
They do 180 as STD.
Buy 1 for £2.5k
£4k on a supercharger kit and few other bits,
£800 on nitrous
£800 on brakes
£800 suspension
£800 roll cage
the rest on bits and bobs, strip the car and 200mph job jobbed. And probably a bloody good track car to.

As your buying a 2nd hand car, you could get 1 1/2 done for a few extra £££
£4k will get you a good evo with suspension, strut braces, air filter, exhaust....
Plus you can sell off the bits that are removed like leather for £500.....

one of the most laughably ridiculous posts I have read on here!

Good luck with it though turbotoaster, definately interested to see how far you get!

[ECU Monitor Enthusiast]

Turbotoaster,

Wow, only just seen this thread and its fantastic reading !

Nice to see someone who is doing things methodically and with a clear understanding of the problems without bullshit

I wish you all the best

[wayne dowling]

good luck too you mate do i get an invite too come watch you do the run lol

[turbotoaster]

Originally Posted by stu21t

Depends what car.
If a Cossie I think youl b lucky.
If an e36 m3 I think it will b a piece of piss.
They do 180 as STD.
Buy 1 for £2.5k
£4k on a supercharger kit and few other bits,
£800 on nitrous
£800 on brakes
£800 suspension
£800 roll cage
the rest on bits and bobs, strip the car and 200mph job jobbed. And probably a bloody good track car to.

As your buying a 2nd hand car, you could get 1 1/2 done for a few extra £££
£4k will get you a good evo with suspension, strut braces, air filter, exhaust....
Plus you can sell off the bits that are removed like leather for £500.....

just noticed this post and thought i would mention a few things.

A m3 isnt the most aerodynamic cars for a start, and at around 290bhp they will never in a million years do 180mph even on the motorway.

Now i dont know the exact co of a e36 but if we assume its at best matching a saph

Now if we assume that we go for a supercharger like your suggestion and not a turbo, are you aware of any charger kits that will convert a stock m3 engine into a 750bhp engine because im not.

Superchargers dont give free energy, they steal energy from the crank to turn unlike a turbo which just uses exhaust gases by way of restriction.

Now i know of a couple of turbod m3s pushing up to 600bhp but they had to rebuild the internals because

a) the engine was to high comp for enough boost to be used
b) they cracked pistons and the rods werent deemed strong enough.

Now since a supercharger needs power to make power compared to a turbo, i doubt theres a kit that will make that power, and even if there is, i dont think the engine would hold together going on other peoples experiences.

Now if we strip away some of the stuff that isnt needed, ok we dont need super suspension, set of second hand coilovers for £400 i bet could be found, no need for a cage

so say we get a car for 3k
custom build a turbocharger kit(rhd steering gets in the way) since theres 6 collectors thats not gonna be cheap, including downpipe and wastegate attached your not looking any change out of 2k
6x 750cc fuel injectors £300
2 fuel pumps £200
fuel pressure reg £100
id imagine you would need a diesel diff so say secondhand £100
now rods and pistons would be £1k

Since this is race gas and lag isnt an issue we need to hit 750bhp, to save money leave the head inc cams stock and just make the power with more boost, hence going for a 900bhp turbo is best so it doesnt go out of its effiecency range when you turning the boost up trying to get the power, something like a gt4294 or a borgwarner s472

that puts me up to £6700

now management id say something like omex kit for £500 then wire that in

now you have to cover all the parts of the engine build, uprated headgasket, id go copper customer one from ferriday engineering for £100, then you need all the bearings, most of them come with the rods but mains etc dont.

Id say it could be done for a budget of 10k but would be done totally different than what your thinking.

Buying a car 3k, spending another £700 on stuff not in the engine bay.

That leaves £6700 to go from 290bhp to 750bhp, thats asking alot, i havent included any labour charges yet if you had to pay for someone to build the engine.

Thats a bit long winded but thought id give you an insight, its not as easy as you make it, yes you could do it with a e36 m3 and maybe just in budget, but its alot harder than my way.


And on the evo part( i assume number 4) ask mark shead what a 800bhp engine will cost, dont think he will build it for 6k, and sort all the fueling and ecu included do you. evo interior would give you £300 tops towards it.

[turbotoaster]

remember when i mentioned that you couldnt get any forged internals so you had to run stock from factory.

Well this was done a couple of years ago, same engine as mine, stock internals, nearly hits 200mph in 1/4 of a mile, though he is running different fuel than i will, shows how strong these engines really are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1ZStKvjVTk

[C4llyT]

Originally Posted by stu21t

If an e36 m3 I think it will b a piece of piss.
They do 180 as STD.
.....

Sorry only got this far in thread and this made me chuckle
160ish, you won't get 180 from 300bhp.
Good engines for nitrous though, and a few FI examples around.

[Chip]

even 160 would be a struggle at brunters, bare in mind you only have about 1.5 miles to acelerate

[H7 CYA]

Awesome video, it seems like the rx7 has a lot of potential and from articles on the net 190+ has been done again and again on standard internals. For £10k tho??? Only time will tell.
I certainly do not think it will be easy and holding on to it at top end will be very difficult on that budget.
Best of luck.

[C4llyT]

Originally Posted by Chip

even 160 would be a struggle at brunters, bare in mind you only have about 1.5 miles to acelerate

I meant flat out with enough road, as 180 was stupid enough for on the road, never mind a confined distance!
Be even more of a struggle in an evo with the 155 limiter in place

[turbotoaster]

Originally Posted by H7 CYA

Awesome video, it seems like the rx7 has a lot of potential and from articles on the net 190+ has been done again and again on standard internals. For £10k tho??? Only time will tell.
I certainly do not think it will be easy and holding on to it at top end will be very difficult on that budget.
Best of luck.

budget shouldnt come into it in regards of it blowing up, if its mapped safely(conservatively) and the engine components are working within there maximum tolerances then it should be fine

[vroooom ptssssh]

Gearbox?

[turbotoaster]

standard gearbox with silkolene race oil in it, same with the diff aswell, ive got both oils sitting in my bedroom ready. the boxes are very strong, theres guys running 9sec quarters on them

[petey.]

nice to see one not being battered about for ghey drifting
got any plans for when you top 200?

[RC4]

Originally Posted by MadRod

To clear up the BMW boys fantasies the very latest e93 m5 just mustered 180 in 1.5miles at a recent VMax.
Cheers Rod

dont you mean e92 m3 rod,the last m5 as e60 there is a new one due though,
my little brother has an e60 m5 (07 plate) very very quick out the box car

[C4llyT]

Rod is on about a convertible M3 that's also a non convertible M5

[MadRod]

Originally Posted by RC4

dont you mean e92 m3 rod,the last m5 as e60 there is a new one due though,
my little brother has an e60 m5 (07 plate) very very quick out the box car

No idea what I meant, im at an age when brain fade & being stupid is all part of its charm .

[turbotoaster]

Originally Posted by petey.

nice to see one not being battered about for ghey drifting
got any plans for when you top 200?

not really, once ive done the run ill be putting my pump fuel map back on and run about 1.1bar which should give me between 500-500bhp which id imagine will be more than enough for the road

[dovboy]

Originally Posted by Chip

even 160 would be a struggle at brunters, bare in mind you only have about 1.5 miles to acelerate

yea,i'm sure the cars only pull an extra 1-2mph at brunters coming as fast as poss round the bend compared to a standing start.

it just shows that getting up to 160 is the easy bit!

i'm sure rod can shed light on this..

[MadRod]

Originally Posted by dovboy

yea,i'm sure the cars only pull an extra 1-2mph at brunters coming as fast as poss round the bend compared to a standing start.

it just shows that getting up to 160 is the easy bit!

i'm sure rod can shed light on this..

A fast car can acclerate from rest as quick as you can get the car straight after taking the bend. Mark uses the bend to save the clutch.
A Slower car may well be able to hustle round the bend fast enough to give an advantage, but remember 100yards saved at the start is about 1sec extra on the throttle at 200mph. Its best to take the bend accurately & get straight as soon as possible not all shit & biscuits as i see at events like Vmax, where tyre smoke & brakes squeeling is seen as the correct method.

[turbotoaster]

Just for reference now the engine has done 900miles i took it to a dyno to see how the engine was doing.

running a very rich map(so power lost) less ignition timing that stock, running stock boost(10psi) it made 283bhp at 6900rpm.

This is 400rpm higher than stock and 30bhp more power, so at a very low boost running super rich(11:1 afr)

This shows that my ports are flowing well, id imagine with a bit of adjustment to the fuel to where the stock afr is and back to the same timing levels as stock another 25bhp could be gained, so thats 55bhp above stock at same boost

just need to do a compression test to check everything is bed in correctly and then start saving more money to start putting things together.

So least i know the engine is doing what it should be doing which will make my life a little bit easier so i can concerntrate on my bolt ons and not if the engine was built correctly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amx3nY-oGoU

this was 7am this morning, you can tell how tired i am as i only had 30mins sleep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIDIzCDOFOk

this one was when i got back in so you can hear it the sound a little cleaner as the car was nice and warm after a drive.

the car still has the original cat and downpipe on it, cant imagine what a 5in downpipe with a 4inch pipe exiting behind the drivers front wheel will sound like, hope my neighbours love me

[Yas89]

spend the 10k on something else! Spend a week in a 7 star hotel in dubai or something

[scoooby slayer]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

Just for reference now the engine has done 900miles i took it to a dyno to see how the engine was doing.

running a very rich map(so power lost) less ignition timing that stock, running stock boost(10psi) it made 283bhp at 6900rpm.

This is 400rpm higher than stock and 30bhp more power, so at a very low boost running super rich(11:1 afr)

This shows that my ports are flowing well, id imagine with a bit of adjustment to the fuel to where the stock afr is and back to the same timing levels as stock another 25bhp could be gained, so thats 55bhp above stock at same boost

just need to do a compression test to check everything is bed in correctly and then start saving more money to start putting things together.

So least i know the engine is doing what it should be doing which will make my life a little bit easier so i can concerntrate on my bolt ons and not if the engine was built correctly

this was 7am this morning, you can tell how tired i am as i only had 30mins sleep

this one was when i got back in so you can hear it the sound a little cleaner as the car was nice and warm after a drive.

the car still has the original cat and downpipe on it, cant imagine what a 5in downpipe with a 4inch pipe exiting behind the drivers front wheel will sound like, hope my neighbours love me

looking good mate. i see you got the power fc on now

whats the total cost so far now £7k ?

[turbotoaster]

Originally Posted by scoooby slayer

looking good mate. i see you got the power fc on now

whats the total cost so far now £7k ?

my god the power fc really fucks up your world though, so many things to watch, nearly crashed today as i was watching my knock levels instead of where im going.

the bill at the moment stands at £6750 for whats on it, which is car 3k, engine build and port 3k, £300 for coilovers, £450 for power fc

my rad was £120


so next in my life is an intercooler, thats £280.

Since i need to compression test it and change all the fluids then that should be a march gift for myself

Hows yours coming along, anything next on your list to buy?

[scoooby slayer]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

my god the power fc really fucks up your world though, so many things to watch, nearly crashed today as i was watching my knock levels instead of where im going.

the bill at the moment stands at £6750 for whats on it, which is car 3k, engine build and port 3k, £300 for coilovers, £450 for power fc

my rad was £120


so next in my life is an intercooler, thats £280.

Since i need to compression test it and change all the fluids then that should be a march gift for myself

Hows yours coming along, anything next on your list to buy?

mines done for now, wanted 600 bhp 570 - 580 is near enough. just need some good weather to drive it

[turbotoaster]

that probably the best thing, get out in the summer, do a few track days and maybe a trip to the ring.

It will be a while now before this thread gets updated as i need to save £600 for the next phaze

[turbotoaster]

well bit of a small random update today, since i got the apexi ecu ive just celotaped it to where my pocket pc is on the left hand side of the gearstick, this was just to monitor is on friday while i top up with fuel and let the ecu learn the idle.

The issue was that it was so far away from my line of sight that i had to take my eyes well away from the road to monitor it, now after neally driving into a curb last night while watching my knock readings i decided its better to look for something to attach it to sooner rather than later.

Ill also need it for my top speed runs and i dont want to be looking away from the tarmac for that

So i theres the r magic power fc holder from japan but they are £50 and thats alot for just a piece of plastic, so i started looking at the commander and thought, well its the shape of a phone, why dont i just get a phone holder.

so i started searching the net for one, i found a few that attach to the windscreen but didnt fancy that as people might think its a sat nav and smash my car open when i go to tesco etc.

then i saw the ones that fit to your air vents, better i thought so i sat in the car and looked straight head to see if the vents were in my eye line, not quite.


so i looked at my dash, and thought where is the best place to put it, well i dont smoke and where the cigarette lighter would be good.

so i sat and made a little design on a scrap piece of paper and commited to making myself one during this week.

Anyway i was walking around tesco today and walked past the mobile phone part, decided to have a quick look and what do you know, they had the perfect thing.

Also as an added bonus they reduced them down from £6.84 to £1.99!!

So snapped it up and took it home.

first things first, cut of the little charger cable that i dont need.

where fag lighter is

attached commander to holder

plug into fag lighter and adjust height

check visability...seems good

turn lights on for night mode


a day full on win it seems.

anything that helps me stay in budget is a good day for me

[alanfordtw-15]

brillaint project, keep it up

[scoooby slayer]

looking good heres mine fella

[turbotoaster]

looks good mate, just a bit far out of my eye line, just have to be careful someone doesnt knee or kick it

[scoooby slayer]

what is your peak knock reading on the pfc mate ?

[turbotoaster]

had it up to 79 i think, normally driving around town in no boost up to 3k i get 35-37, thought to see what happened i was doing 1800rpm and put my foot to the floor in third, can on full boost by 2300rpm and heat light lit up and it registered 118, so dont know if thats the map or just engine noise.

What about yours, any big readings?

[scoooby slayer]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

had it up to 79 i think, normally driving around town in no boost up to 3k i get 35-37, thought to see what happened i was doing 1800rpm and put my foot to the floor in third, can on full boost by 2300rpm and heat light lit up and it registered 118, so dont know if thats the map or just engine noise.

What about yours, any big readings?

peak reading is now 42.

was hitting 117 when the crank was failing.

i dont know about on rx7s but on mine i had a bit too much ignition mid range well as it was coming on boost from cruise and it showed as a 68 peak, map tweaked and now around 20 on cruise 42 max reading so far.

[turbotoaster]

my oils arrived today.

Love that i worked for silkolene, free oils, would have cost me £320 if i needed to buy all that!!



thats fully syn 15w50 oil
gearbox and diff oil

[RickyLee53]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

had it up to 79 i think, normally driving around town in no boost up to 3k i get 35-37, thought to see what happened i was doing 1800rpm and put my foot to the floor in third, can on full boost by 2300rpm and heat light lit up and it registered 118, so dont know if thats the map or just engine noise.

What about yours, any big readings?

Thats pretty high, go into the settings and it allows you to pull 1-2 degrees globally. This will automatically reset itself every time you key on and off. Try pulling 3 degrees and go for another pull. My guess is it would be a lot better.

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

my oils arrived today.

Love that i worked for silkolene, free oils, would have cost me £320 if i needed to buy all that!!



thats fully syn 15w50 oil
gearbox and diff oil

Give me a box of that as thanks for the above advice haha.

[turbotoaster]

Originally Posted by RickyLee53

Thats pretty high, go into the settings and it allows you to pull 1-2 degrees globally. This will automatically reset itself every time you key on and off. Try pulling 3 degrees and go for another pull. My guess is it would be a lot better.

Give me a box of that as thanks for the above advice haha.

Well im poor at the moment, them boxes retail at £100 a box, you want £1500 for all the work on my car, how about i trade you for 20 boxes instead....come on, you know you want to

[turbotoaster]

Another update is ive changed my injector setup to try and give me a more reliable setup, make mapping easier and save some money.

Christian reminded me of these with his recent thread as i forgot all about them

There was a few issues with my original idea which i did not foresee.

One was that the additional 1600cc injectors are low impediance which means i would have to install resistors before the injectors, i knew of this and didnt think that was a big deal.

I assumed that would make them act like high imp ones, and my apexi ecu would control them as such(thats normally true) i was gonna trick my ecu into thinking that each injector was infact 2450cc(1600cc+my original 850cc) so that they fire together, the issue is the ecu will end up messing up the transition from small primary 550cc to the 2 big ones and flood the engine.

I have now solved this problem by coming across 'injector dynamics' 2000cc injectors, they are special injectors that even when the fuel pressure is increased they provide a consistant spray pattern.

by running these at 50psi base pressure they will provide 2500cc each which as i need 6000cc and i have 1000cc in primarys in the car this will be perfect.



the other benefit is i now dont need to by injector holders to weld into my upper inlet manifold which saves me money, the injectors are more expensive than the 1600cc, but i think its work it for simplicity.

they can get a leaner idle running 4x2000cc on a stock honda non-vtec integra than the 240cc stock ones, thats how good they are

plus they are great if you up the fuel pressure, with 130psi of pressure they flow 3700cc! so at that pressure ill bet ill be pushing 8800cc worth of fuel, that will be mint for E85 fuel, empty a 72litre fuel tank in 8mins flat out lol

[RickyLee53]

ID's will be a good choice.

Heres a little post i found. Manages 208mph in a standing mile! Doesn't look to have the best CD either, and not "massive" power.

http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/en/...-TX-Mile-.html

Very impressive.