Another one going for 200mph!(full fia/msa spec caged racecar)

[turbotoaster]

ok onto the deal with power, i did some gear testing yesterday to determine what needs to be done So i went out with my gps meter to do some gear testing. to do 100mph(gps) i need to do 4500rpm, give or take 20rpm so to do 200mph i need to pull 9000rpm, simple maths. this is on 255/40/17s there maybe 1mph more for tyre expansion but ill leave that out to make it easier. also a 4.1 diff So i got out my gear calculator program i have to put the numbers in to see how i can help. online i have found that the 5th gear results are much longer than they should be, 0.719, which must be incorrect else id be doing a massive speed. Anyway i adjusted my 5th gear till i got 100mph at 4500rpm with tyres stated earlier. This gave me a 5 gear ratio of 0.820 or 22.15mph per 1000rpm. Now according to what the guy with the stock port and same turbo as me did, his max power was at 8200rpm, because of my big streetport im calculating that my max power will probably be about 8500rpm. So to do 200mph im going to be past my max power and its gonna be trailing off, not good really at that means ill have less power where i need it most. At my maximum power ill only be doing 188mph, so well short of the mark, so lets change the diff to an auto one to see what we can do. now this changes the speed at max power to 198mph, which is much better, very close to the mark. Ill have to wait to see what my final max power/rpm will be but it least im making progress on gearing. also say for example i only make max power at 8200rpm like the other guy did i can still hit 200mph with 8250mph if i change my rear tyres to 255/45/17 hope this clears up any potential confusion people have had in the past One thing about power is if i made 1000bhp at 6k but only 500bhp at 9k and i need 9k to hit 200mph i wouldnt do it. But if im making 1000bhp at 6k but 640bhp at 9k i would hit 200mph. So i can make up with tyres but i may need more than 640bhp to hit my target, hence the aim of 700bhp at around 30psi. A completely stock engine(ie built by a guy on the mazda production line)with my turbo did 709bhp at 33psi and runs 9sec quarter miles so the power is avaliable that way if 200mph is past my peak power slightly then it still should be above 640bhp. this was from Rod about his old engine 'On my last engine Peak Power was below 7.5k but held on to about 7.7k. We pulled 8.2k so was well past peak Power. BUT we could not pull the longer gearing so this was the best compromise' So at 200mph he wasnt putting out the power people think he has because hes gone past peak power

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[vroooom ptssssh]

Originally Posted by dovboy

dude you have him beat before he has even started!

i dont think there is a car out there that doesn't have some kind of weak spot,i'm sure trying to do 200 in any car would find those weak spots.

No I totally agree, you are right in what you say...however holding a car down a runway flat out for that long is a big thing to ask from it...Chap reckons if it dets at all, it will blow the engine...whereas a piston engine wont be so 'on the edge'

I cant help but think a skyline GTR engine would be better (RB26 DETT)...

650bhp can be had for not a lot of dosh/effort.

I agree that Apexi is a very good system, I run it on my 200sx.

[scoooby slayer]

good luck mate i hope you do it.

[MadRod]

To clear up the BMW boys fantasies the very latest e93 m5 just mustered 180 in 1.5miles at a recent VMax. Its so obvious that most dont realise just how short 1.5 miles is, the topspeed of most Production cars would be over 4miles.
Turbotoaster knows whats involved & the maths of how to do it, hard bit is getting the car to follow the maths .
I will help anyone that is prepared to give it a go & i will be there on the day & maybe running with him, yes ive been asked, we shall see.

Cheers Rod

[turbotoaster]

Originally Posted by vroooom ptssssh

No I totally agree, you are right in what you say...however holding a car down a runway flat out for that long is a big thing to ask from it...Chap reckons if it dets at all, it will blow the engine...whereas a piston engine wont be so 'on the edge'

I cant help but think a skyline GTR engine would be better (RB26 DETT)...

650bhp can be had for not a lot of dosh/effort.

I agree that Apexi is a very good system, I run it on my 200sx.

That would be true if it was tuned the same way as a piston engine, i can take out timing and not loose much power, the engine should produce 700bhp, if i maxed everything out(boost and timing) i could hit 750bhp, but there is no need and the risks are to involved, maybe one dyno run just for pub figures but in the real world im not to fussed.

the limit of a stock rb26 bottom end is around 600bhp, id need to custom fit the engine, gearbox, custom made prop shaft, theres an awful lot of work involved in that mate, then id need 6 injectors, big turbo, cams, pistons etc

Ask how much scooby slayers engine came to and thats with no fabrication work!

[scoooby slayer]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

That would be true if it was tuned the same way as a piston engine, i can take out timing and not loose much power, the engine should produce 700bhp, if i maxed everything out(boost and timing) i could hit 750bhp, but there is no need and the risks are to involved, maybe one dyno run just for pub figures but in the real world im not to fussed.

the limit of a stock rb26 bottom end is around 600bhp, id need to custom fit the engine, gearbox, custom made prop shaft, theres an awful lot of work involved in that mate, then id need 6 injectors, big turbo, cams, pistons etc

Ask how much scooby slayers engine came to and thats with no fabrication work!

drive in drive out was £5600 and that was a good price £3600 parts £2000 labour for engine in and out and rebuild, head porting / cams already done, jun oil pump reused. turbos already there.
car stands me in at £11k and wouldnt do 200 mph but is built to be up to 700 bhp and as reliable as possible.

i think hes doing right i think a standard rb26dett at 650 bhp is a recipe for disaster. and dont forget this car hasnt got to do 10k + miles its just gotta do the run.

[jammerrs]

best off look mate, keep us updated

any idea when its going to be doing this run? or is it a do it when its finished?

are you doing anything to the body to do these speeds, areo dynamis aids, just taping the front end up etc?

[turbotoaster]

Originally Posted by scoooby slayer

drive in drive out was £5600 and that was a good price £3600 parts £2000 labour for engine in and out and rebuild, head porting / cams already done, jun oil pump reused. turbos already there.
car stands me in at £11k and wouldnt do 200 mph but is built to be up to 700 bhp and as reliable as possible.

i think hes doing right i think a standard rb26dett at 650 bhp is a recipe for disaster. and dont forget this car hasnt got to do 10k + miles its just gotta do the run.

So to basically build the engine its 5600, you would then need to buy turbos, head port, cams etc easily be 10k to get a standard engine to your spec?

if you maxed your turbos out at say 680bhp you could easily crack 200mph, just not within the confines of brunters.

Originally Posted by jammerrs

best off look mate, keep us updated

any idea when its going to be doing this run? or is it a do it when its finished?

are you doing anything to the body to do these speeds, areo dynamis aids, just taping the front end up etc?

well if someone lends me £3500 i could do it by february lol

i dont earn a massive amount and ive refused to use credit cards or anything like that, so having no debt means it will take time.

the timeline will go

ecu
intercooler/rad
injectors/fuel pump
turbo/manifold
water injection
brunters

We are looking at probably autumn time before i do the run for a couple of reasons, one finance, and another the cooler air will help keep performance up

there will be no aero aids apart from taping up a few seams and removing the wing mirrors, also the car will run lower to the floor than normal use

for reference a company called scoot in japan went over to new zealand to do a top speed run.

On what can only be described as a 2mile stretch of B road they did 204.6mph with 680bhp with a very drag heavy setup, but when your doing that speed down a tight road its to be expected you will need stability

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqd3l6P3PV4

that gives you an idea of how tight the road was

[dovboy]

the car in the vid has the rear wheel covers i mentioned,they must help a fair bit.

[jammerrs]

not much room for error along that road, never mind at that sort of speed

sounds a good plan, again best of look i hope you can make it

[CoupeUK]

Is there a 200+mph rated tyre out there?

General question....

[andy escos]

good luck with the project

[scoooby slayer]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

So to basically build the engine its 5600, you would then need to buy turbos, head port, cams etc easily be 10k to get a standard engine to your spec?

if you maxed your turbos out at say 680bhp you could easily crack 200mph, just not within the confines of brunters.



well if someone lends me £3500 i could do it by february lol

i dont earn a massive amount and ive refused to use credit cards or anything like that, so having no debt means it will take time.

the timeline will go

ecu
intercooler/rad
injectors/fuel pump
turbo/manifold
water injection
brunters

We are looking at probably autumn time before i do the run for a couple of reasons, one finance, and another the cooler air will help keep performance up

there will be no aero aids apart from taping up a few seams and removing the wing mirrors, also the car will run lower to the floor than normal use

for reference a company called scoot in japan went over to new zealand to do a top speed run.

On what can only be described as a 2mile stretch of B road they did 204.6mph with 680bhp with a very drag heavy setup, but when your doing that speed down a tight road its to be expected you will need stability

that gives you an idea of how tight the road was

my car should technically do 193 mph on the limiter if it would pull there.
but mine has been built as a fast road car with track and drag potential if i want to do it. to make a reliable road car with big power on your budget i think its impossible but for what your aiming for it hasnt gotta do 10k + miles so i think you stand a good chance after all it hasnt got to hold together for long mate. rx7s weigh in at 1310 kg which is pretty good.
good aero shell. ive driven a tuned rx7 and it was an awesome machine and ive known of 2 others but reliability was an issue with all of them, they all had failed rotors, one on a rebuild but only did 1500 mls hard use and was fooked again
for your aim i think youve picked the perfect car though
i wish you all the best mate and will be following this thread.

ive wanted a brunters run for a couple of years now, ive phoned them twice in the past but it hasnt been possible due to cars stored there iirc.

maybe i could pay and run my skyline there when your there pal ?

[turbotoaster]

Originally Posted by scoooby slayer

my car should technically do 193 mph on the limiter if it would pull there.
but mine has been built as a fast road car with track and drag potential if i want to do it. to make a reliable road car with big power on your budget i think its impossible but for what your aiming for it hasnt gotta do 10k + miles so i think you stand a good chance after all it hasnt got to hold together for long mate. rx7s weigh in at 1310 kg which is pretty good.
good aero shell. ive driven a tuned rx7 and it was an awesome machine and ive known of 2 others but reliability was an issue with all of them, they all had failed rotors, one on a rebuild but only did 1500 mls hard use and was fooked again
for your aim i think youve picked the perfect car though
i wish you all the best mate and will be following this thread.

ive wanted a brunters run for a couple of years now, ive phoned them twice in the past but it hasnt been possible due to cars stored there iirc.

maybe i could pay and run my skyline there when your there pal ?

what is your limiter set at, i notice you make max power at around 7700rpm

if you were running full boost at 680bhp, if you changed your tyres you wouldnt be massively far away at brunters.

but at the horsepower you are now theres a chance you might be able to crack 200mph with a 4-5mile run at it

by the way rx7s fully equiped weight 1260kg, mines currently at 1220kg but id like to get it to 1200kg when its fully done. Sounds like 1500mile one hasnt been tuned properly as 1000 of those miles will have been running in below 4krpm.

When ive done it, ill turn the boost down to around 1.2bar and be happy with 550bhp as thats alot for its weight.

I suppose it depends on if the mags will alloy it, Rod mentioned doing it at woodbridge as theres no noise limits there, so might see about that place first, if they allow other people to run then the more the merrier i suppose

[Charlie Chalk]

Originally Posted by CoupeUK

Is there a 200+mph rated tyre out there?

General question....

Well theres cars produced that do 200+ , so I'm guessing yes?!


Good luck mate.

[scoooby slayer]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

what is your limiter set at, i notice you make max power at around 7700rpm

if you were running full boost at 680bhp, if you changed your tyres you wouldnt be massively far away at brunters.

but at the horsepower you are now theres a chance you might be able to crack 200mph with a 4-5mile run at it

by the way rx7s fully equiped weight 1260kg, mines currently at 1220kg but id like to get it to 1200kg when its fully done. Sounds like 1500mile one hasnt been tuned properly as 1000 of those miles will have been running in below 4krpm.

When ive done it, ill turn the boost down to around 1.2bar and be happy with 550bhp as thats alot for its weight.

I suppose it depends on if the mags will alloy it, Rod mentioned doing it at woodbridge as theres no noise limits there, so might see about that place first, if they allow other people to run then the more the merrier i suppose

im making power right to limiter now with more boost about 580 bhp 470 lbft. this thread made me think so just been on gtroc id need 8200 rpm limit to physically achieve 200 mph and a good bit of road shes no lightweight at 1410 kgs.

id 100 % be there though if i could run, and try 170 mph id be happy
put in a good word for me pal

[MadRod]

Originally Posted by CoupeUK

Is there a 200+mph rated tyre out there?

General question....

Continental make a tyre rated to 200mph but they are not in normal sizes.
The Top tyre rating is 186mph but remember thats continuious running with max load so its not really a problem.

[simon170]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

Rod mentioned doing it at woodbridge as theres no noise limits there

I'd recommend Woodbridge, much better service I think.

[Kverna]

What about the heat thoughout the system ? Will it actually BE 6/700bhp at the end of a run, ~200mph ?

[vroooom ptssssh]

A mate of mines RB26dett was making 575whp and it got abused with no issues.

Standard bottom end.

Well whatever you choose good luck

[Lloyd]

the last company i worked for made the cold side impellars for borg warner turbos,and the 475 was used in a race series in the usa.
there was a lot of problems with them,carbon deposits in the back face,and blade tip porosity.ok if you get a good one.lol

[turbotoaster]

so theres a larger risk by running a pre-turbo water injection then, if the blades are porous and im deliberately throwing water at them, is there anyway of checking them at all?

[m4tt274]

Originally Posted by vroooom ptssssh

No I totally agree, you are right in what you say...however holding a car down a runway flat out for that long is a big thing to ask from it...Chap reckons if it dets at all, it will blow the engine...whereas a piston engine wont be so 'on the edge'

I cant help but think a skyline GTR engine would be better (RB26 DETT)...

650bhp can be had for not a lot of dosh/effort.

I agree that Apexi is a very good system, I run it on my 200sx.

a skyline GTR engine would cost 3times the wonga to get to this power, as u need cams, pistons, rods, block modifications, sump etc etc. all u need to do with rotary is port it. then its fuel rail, ECU, turbo :P

[Lloyd]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

so theres a larger risk by running a pre-turbo water injection then, if the blades are porous and im deliberately throwing water at them, is there anyway of checking them at all?

blade tip porosity is an effect of the heat treatment process.it discolours the edges of the blades and makes them brittle.water injection will not affect it.on some you can see a bubbling of the alloy

[scoooby slayer]

now this is an rx7

bit over budget though

http://pistonheads.com/sales/1270615.htm

[CRAIG HAYTER]

Originally Posted by m4tt274

??
do u know anything about the engine.
the engines are more reliable than the YB.
they just need servicing regularly and warming up is essential. if u do that they never go wrong.

my cousin bought one type r a sensor went and it melted the engine cost ££££s and had to get another engine from MAZDAas you can imagine it wasnt cheap to get done and not alot of mechanics know how they work(properly)they are nice cars but shite enginealso theyneed rebuilt ALOT

good luck in the search for 200mph

[turbotoaster]

there is alot of people on here shout out how there mates had problems and they broke, well just look around this webiste, how many people on here have had to rebuild there cossie/cvh engines because they have blown up.

Yes alot of people dont know about them but that doesnt make them rubbish, can you think of another standard engine thats under 3ltr that can hold 700bhp, i cant think of many.

People say theres a chance of bending conrods on a evo engines when going over 350ft/lb but you dont hear people saying they are a rubbish engine.

I do seem to get that from everywhere that its a crap engine but if you tune it well they are very good.

I got this from my renault turbo aswell, people just assume you can turn the boost up without doing anything else and wonder why it blows up, i ran over double the stock horsepower on standard internals on that and it was fine and i know some that are running nearly 4 times the stock horsepower on them, its all in the tune!

[turbotoaster]

ordered a apexi power fc from japan, got it through a mate on the mazda forums for £450 which is a bit of a bargain

The Commander can display up to 10 parameters of data in real time. Monitor Mode can display:
Engine RPM
Ignition Timing
Vehicle Speed
Air Flow Voltage (Pressure Sensor Voltage)
Injector Duty Cycle
Boost
Knocking Level
Battery Voltage
Intake Air Temp
Water Temp



ill hook it up sometime in the week, then start saving for the rad/intercooler

[English]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

for reference a company called scoot in japan went over to new zealand to do a top speed run.

On what can only be described as a 2mile stretch of B road they did 204.6mph with 680bhp

I live in New Zealand. Where was this stretch of road - in case a hypothetical top speed run was in order heh heh

[scoooby slayer]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

ordered a apexi power fc from japan, got it through a mate on the mazda forums for £450 which is a bit of a bargain

The Commander can display up to 10 parameters of data in real time. Monitor Mode can display:
Engine RPM
Ignition Timing
Vehicle Speed
Air Flow Voltage (Pressure Sensor Voltage)
Injector Duty Cycle
Boost
Knocking Level
Battery Voltage
Intake Air Temp
Water Temp



ill hook it up sometime in the week, then start saving for the rad/intercooler

looking good mate i got one in my skyline there awesome.

will give you a warning aswell if injectors, afms or knock pass your preset limit

[turbotoaster]

ah thats good, i know i can adjust the knock sensor so when it reaches a certain value it will make my heat light flash on my dash, that will be useful for when im giving it beans.

The only other gauge im gonna get is an innovative motorsports afr reader so i can keep an eye on everything and also so i can map the cruise sections myself

[scoooby slayer]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

ah thats good, i know i can adjust the knock sensor so when it reaches a certain value it will make my heat light flash on my dash, that will be useful for when im giving it beans.

The only other gauge im gonna get is an innovative motorsports afr reader so i can keep an eye on everything and also so i can map the cruise sections myself

yes mate its my cat overheat light that warns it has saved my engine already

get some pics of the car / engine up mate

[turbotoaster]

i would stick some up but the car is looking pretty standard at the moment, the turbo, cooler etc havent been bought for it yet

here you go anyway




thats the state it is in at the moment.

ill need about 3 months before my next big update with all my intercooler and rad setup but it will basically look like this below

[scoooby slayer]

looks good ive always like the look of the 7s.

has the engine gotta come apart or is it just bolt ons now ?

[turbotoaster]

the engine is fully built, ive got all the pics of it here

http://passionford.com/forum/restora...rbo-build.html

they are about halfway down, 700bhp can be done on a standard engine but my water seal failed so i rebuilt it anyway, had the ports enlarged (like porting a head and fitting cams) so 700bhp should be hit with slightly less boost.

Will be fun to have a play with rod as we are gonna be running the same turbo but i can a larger rear end, seen a datalog of someones engine with this turbo



makes 15psi at 4k and 25psi at 5k, will rev it to around 8.7k so should give a nice power band, a guy in sweden running 22psi on E85 already made just under 600whp which is about 690bhp.

now not sure how acurate his dyno is so im gonna be running about 28psi so i know im over 700bhp to make it easier on the day.



its almost as big as the engine lol 1000bhp turbo for £400 brand new, cant complain!!

[vroooom ptssssh]

Originally Posted by m4tt274

a skyline GTR engine would cost 3times the wonga to get to this power, as u need cams, pistons, rods, block modifications, sump etc etc. all u need to do with rotary is port it. then its fuel rail, ECU, turbo :P

bullshit.

[turbotoaster]

which bit is bullshit, he is correct about the rotary, are you on about the skyline part.

to be fair you could make 700bhp on a stock rb26 but then you are putting alot of load on standard rods, of course you would run this number on racegas so you wouldnt have to worry about det.

the standard head and cams would hold you back but thats only like not porting a rotary, you just need to run more boost.

id say if he took my turbo and bolted it on he would make the power for not a massive amount more than me.

only things more he would have to pay for is 6 injectors, more expensive manifold.

obviously its a big risk on a rb26 engine, but ive seen a drag car put 1300bhp down on a stock bottom end so its not impossible

[vroooom ptssssh]

bullshit about having to change all that for 600bhp on an RB26. I've already said I've watched a more or less std RB26 on the rollers was making around 630fly horsepower on standard internals...(it had cams) std manifolds, uprated HKS turbos, apexi, 4" exhaust, uprated head gasket, oil pump and injectors...1.6bar boost.

[turbotoaster]

well true, but your mentioned head gasket and cams, hence the engine has to partially come apart to achieve that. plus how much are cams, they wont be cheap

If i was going for 700bhp on a budget i wouldnt bother with that, uprated oil pumps on rb26 i hear are very expensive.

and remember we are talking about 700bhp, not 600bhp

Id just bang a big single with alot of boost and hope the rods stay together.

But remember thats in a skyline, if i had to put that engine in my car thats an awful lot of fab work.

if i was trying to do it in a skyline id probably need about 850bhp due to weight and aero, now that would be an achievement to hold together for 30secs flat out

if you could build an engine that needs to produce around 720bhp for 6k including buying a stock engine to work on then id be well interested in how you would do it.

Not trying to sound like your wrong but im genuinely interested in the name of educating

[scoooby slayer]

Originally Posted by turbotoaster

well true, but your mentioned head gasket and cams, hence the engine has to partially come apart to achieve that. plus how much are cams, they wont be cheap

If i was going for 700bhp on a budget i wouldnt bother with that, uprated oil pumps on rb26 i hear are very expensive.

and remember we are talking about 700bhp, not 600bhp

Id just bang a big single with alot of boost and hope the rods stay together.

But remember thats in a skyline, if i had to put that engine in my car thats an awful lot of fab work.

if i was trying to do it in a skyline id probably need about 850bhp due to weight and aero, now that would be an achievement to hold together for 30secs flat out

if you could build an engine that needs to produce around 720bhp for 6k including buying a stock engine to work on then id be well interested in how you would do it.

Not trying to sound like your wrong but im genuinely interested in the name of educating

a decent oil pump is around £800 but standard rods are ok ive got them in mine still, tweenie asked me will i ever want to go above 800 bhp and 8500 rpm on my bottom end and when i said no he said dont waste money on rods then, just tomei big end bolts.

i think your car is the only realistic contender for the budget mate.

the easiest and most reliable would be a supra 2jz gte base car but the budget would have to double at a guess.

as said youve got a rebuilt engine for £6k all in