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Old 26-04-2012, 12:26 PM   #41
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Chip you come from a council estate yourself so how can you come out with this crap ?
Because I was brought up by a hardworking family (both my parents worked full time when I was a kid) who lived on a council estate and I can see the stark difference in worth to soceity between my parents and the parents of those scum families living on benefits not because they couldnt get a job, but because they didnt want one.


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your talking of one end of the spectrum, not everyone on benefits are milking the system and are seriously poor, so if there was not any help when you was younger and poor then you probably would not be where you are in life now
We never received ANY benefits other than things that arent means tested like child support.
My father would have sooner worked in ANY job than be on benefits, as would I. He never claimed a day in his life and neither have I and he always worked hard and it paid off in the end and he made something of himself and as a result of that hard work my folks are now quite well off.

You misunderstood me if you think I am of the opinion every person in a council house is scum, I dont feel that at all, lots of people benefit from cheaper rent in a council house when they are starting out and working hard to build a future for their family, nothing wrong with that, the only thing that is wrong is when people spend their whole lives claiming benefits and never work a day in their life and expect everyone else to support them, its THOSE people I have a problem with, not everyone on a council estate.


I have NO problem with any of the following:
Upper class
Middle class
Working class

I just have a problem with the ones who are:
Benefits claiming for life class (or lack of class I should say!)
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Old 26-04-2012, 05:02 PM   #42
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There is a huge difference between benefits for someone who is on hard times and benefits for someone who never worked a day in their life.

I think there should be a system where you get something back if you are out of work but have previously paid your taxes etc, like a pot. If you have never paid anything, well I would like to say you are taken out and shot, but I suppose some bare minimum solution is more humane

Its a lifestyle choice now to do nothing, you should pay to have kids, not get paid to have kids, we don't need anymore fucking children.

I am surrounded by people in the same size house as me, on the same street, who have never worked a day in their lives, while me and my wife pay a massive amount of tax. Their houses are in better states of repair as well.....

I heard one going on about how great it was that the Tories had got in "cos they will get rid of all the immigrants" How thick are these people to think they, of all people, would be better off under Tories?

This country makes my fucking blood boil, if the chance arises, I'll be off.
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Old 26-04-2012, 06:55 PM   #43
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Like Labour or not, blame them or not, fact is, a recession can be over in days if everyone spends their money as it has a knock on effect. With these clueless twits in, who have no idea of the real world and normal people, folk are scared to spend 'just in case'. Labour would have had people spending money now if they had been voted back in. Forget the deficit, as lets face it, theyre borrowing more now and have made massive cuts, screwing peoples lives up, for nothing! The cuts have made the recession worse, and made no gains whatsoever!

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Old 26-04-2012, 07:10 PM   #44
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what gets me is the government wants economic growth, yet chooses to tax the fuck out of petrol or diesel.
Im not even going to get started on people who live off benefits when they are perfectly capable of work. Opposite my house are council flats with about 50 occupants and in the car park where my car is, 5-10 of them sit there drinking cider on the wall every day, all this while im going to work and trying to study (barely earning enough to keep afloat and pay my bills etc) and these selfish pricks are out drinking every day?

Its a complete disgrace
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Old 26-04-2012, 07:55 PM   #45
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It is an obvious pattern, we are being taxed so much now even hard working folk on lower wages are thinking what's the point?

I am lucky that I have trained hard & had the chance to do so, but I work 130 miles from home, live in digs all week to further my career. I am spending £400 a month on fuel, fucking £4800 a year JUST FOR WORK!!

Fuel prices drive the economy, every time the fuel prices rise, we hit recession, it is stupid.

I mean £1.50 for a litre of diesel?

People are not spending due to not being able to second guess where the government will fuck us next!

Lee, sorry but cuts had to be made, I don't do politics as they are all feckless wasters, why are people with zero business acumen in charge of trillions of £££ worth of our money?

Sadly the tax burden will keep on rising year on year, the way our government is run means it is an impossible task to ever match spending to income.
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Old 26-04-2012, 08:27 PM   #46
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It will only get worse imo, generations growing up with the mindset that if you haven't bothered to get a skill/education then it is better to sit on your arse and get free money than to do a shit job and graft for your cash.

Pisses me right off when people roll out the cases where benefits are genuinely deserved and required.

As has been said, if you haven't put in, you dont get to take out and even when you do get to take out, it is bare minimum, no frills - encourage people to get back on their feet.

People can sort their shit out, but they have to work hard, I have done 18 hour a day, 6 days a week to get my business off the ground, feeling at times like i cant go on, running on empty, did i give up? did I get anything made easy or handed to me on a plate? NO, I fooking grafted to get it stable. No real education but the ability to work hard and be a decent memeber of society. I worked some shite jobs prior to that, long days for tiny pay, and I can honestly says I have NEVER claimed a penny in benefits.

Lazy arse people who have no concept of where the government gets it's cash, and think it is their right/entitlement to have it. worse still they think the working man is the bad guy 'cause he's get everything and I should have the same'
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Old 26-04-2012, 09:17 PM   #47
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The point about immigrants is a good one, altho not for the reasons mentioned

Fair play if they come and work, it should be a lesson to all the uk national workshy dolescummers, however, its stupidity of the highest level letting them send that money out of the country to be spent elsewhere

We should tax the fuck out of being spent anywhere else but in the UK
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Old 26-04-2012, 09:18 PM   #48
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It will only get worse imo, generations growing up with the mindset that if you haven't bothered to get a skill/education then it is better to sit on your arse and get free money than to do a shit job and graft for your cash.

Pisses me right off when people roll out the cases where benefits are genuinely deserved and required.

As has been said, if you haven't put in, you dont get to take out and even when you do get to take out, it is bare minimum, no frills - encourage people to get back on their feet.

People can sort their shit out, but they have to work hard, I have done 18 hour a day, 6 days a week to get my business off the ground, feeling at times like i cant go on, running on empty, did i give up? did I get anything made easy or handed to me on a plate? NO, I fooking grafted to get it stable. No real education but the ability to work hard and be a decent memeber of society. I worked some shite jobs prior to that, long days for tiny pay, and I can honestly says I have NEVER claimed a penny in benefits.

Lazy arse people who have no concept of where the government gets it's cash, and think it is their right/entitlement to have it. worse still they think the working man is the bad guy 'cause he's get everything and I should have the same'
totally agree mate.

The welfare state is there to provide a safety net when you hit hard times and need some help. That 'help' is short term help, until you get back to work and on your feet.

there are people out there who can work and who should be working but are 'swinging the lead' and hiding behind some sort of medical condition, such as 'a bad back' because they are workshy. These see benefits as a lifestyle choice.

There are some people out there who's parents have never worked and all they have learned is to live a life on benefits playing the system.

girl gets to 16/17/18, gets up the duff to some scrote. Bang, instantly on the housing list. She and her bastard offsping being looked after for the next 18 years at taxpayers expense. Free house/money. cushty life. dont bother going to work. Thats for losers attitude.

lad reaches 16/17/18. cant work due to some ailment. Ive got ADHD aint I. I've got depression, I've been a heavy drug user and need my methodone fix. I'm unemployable. Again being paid for by the taxpayer.

Ive never been out of work since i was 18. Joined my current employer in 1991. will be 'celebrating' my 21st year anniversary this September.

I also work self employed part time in addition to my job. I typically work an average of 55 hrs per week over 6 days to afford my house and lifestyle. work hard, save, pay for what i need.

If i lost my job tomorrow I'd get fuck all off the state, because i'm a single bloke with no kids. fuck all help despite paying all my taxes/NIC to fund those workshy tossers.

If people claim that they can't get a job, then let them to do something useful in the community for their dole/benefit money.
Be that helping clean graffity of walls or help cleaning up the street.
Get them to do volunteer work or charity work.

get them to do something with a purpose that means they HAVE to get out of bed in the morning.

There should be no way that a person is effectively paid to sit in their arse all day watching Jeremy Kyle while smoking fags/drinking beer and effectively laughing at all the people who work bloody hard for what they have in life.

annnnnnd breathe

rant over
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Old 26-04-2012, 10:25 PM   #49
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Lee, sorry but cuts had to be made, I don't do politics as they are all feckless wasters, why are people with zero business acumen in charge of trillions of £££ worth of our money?

Sadly the tax burden will keep on rising year on year, the way our government is run means it is an impossible task to ever match spending to income.
Of course they do! common sense that, but not the way the government has done it. As, even if they are cutting in the right places, they have gone about it all the wrong way, getting peoples backs up and making everyone, well, every normal person, shit scared to spend anything! Like I say, not in touch with the real world!
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Old 26-04-2012, 10:29 PM   #50
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Going on the benefits thing. I can understand, in fact I KNOW of people who have been hard workers, but at the moment are claiming benefits as it is not worth them going back to work! Not my principals, as I could NOT stay at home and not work its in my blood but everyone is different! But I can see their point! The other scum, that are always on benefits, will always be. Always been people like that, and always will. But what do you do? Stop their money? Then they turn to crime, and begging and we become a third word style country! Got to give them some money, thats a no brainer! Need to forget the scum like that and worry about the normal people, getting them back to work, and get everyone spending again, because if everyone thought fuck it tomorrow and went about things normally we'd be out of recession in no time! We'd all be happy and let the scumbags carry on as they are as we are only here for about 70 years! Why let it bother you as long as your own life is good!

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Old 26-04-2012, 10:41 PM   #51
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The other scum, that are always on benefits, will always be. Always been people like that, and always will. But what do you do? Stop their money?
no you dont stop their money. IMHO they should not get their benefits in cash to spend as they please.

the people like that should get vouchers.

W amount for clothes

X amount in food vouchers

y amount for heat/light

Z amount for housing costs

There is no way these people should get cash as the money they get from benefits is usually wasted by them on beer/fags and other lifestyle 'luxuries'

you want a life on benefits? fine, you get the basics and you will be provided with a means to 'buy' the basics on welfare.

clothes on your back, roof over your head, food, heat & light. no money for 'luxuries'.

there is no way you should be able to 'afford' to be down the pub on a saturday night pissing your benefit money up the wall getting pissed, or, afford to have a mobile phone, a laptop, a 47 inch flatscreen TV, a playstation etc funded by benefit payments

some people have worked hard all week and have EARNED the money for a weekend pint/meal out etc and to afford their luxuries

lets see how long it takes before the scummy workshy fuckers think sod this for a lark, im going to get my life sorted out, get a job and earn some money, legitimately!
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Old 26-04-2012, 11:41 PM   #52
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lets see how long it takes before the scummy workshy fuckers think sod this for a lark, im going to get my life sorted out, get a job and earn some money, legitimately!
They wont. the attitudes are so ingrained in them that they will rather commit crime and sit there whinging about how the world has screwed them over.

The solution needs to be full society scale, so including a harsher and more brutal prison system for serious criminals and repeat offenders. That would then help deter the scum class from choosing crime instead of work.

Already a lot of the dole dossers and benefit cheats commit crime or work cash in hand.

And sadly crime pays in this country.

I remember talking to shoplifters we detained while working in security and they would happily talk about how they would earn £4-500 a week from thieving alone, and would still claim benefits on top. They abuse the giro system by refusing to have a bank account meaning benefits are paid by "emergency giro" even though its all the time and not an emergency..... also the courts can only take £5 a week direct from benefits for court fines, where as if they have money in a bank or accessible assets the courts can take it all. And even when caught, very rarely do even repeat shoplifters go to prison. They only get locked up if they use violence and when eventually every couple of years the fines and broken community orders catch up.

So they are literally laughing at us.

Its not just a brutal prison regime they need to force them to change, but changes in the education system allowing the next generation to be disciplined into shape where the parents fail to do so. Also the parents need to be held accountable for their childs actions and failure to provide a good example to their children. Very very few kids grow up to be shits with good parenting.....
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Old 26-04-2012, 11:56 PM   #53
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what should happen is what happened in japan the last time they had a recession, they gave every working person 2 grand and told them to spend it once it was spent the companys it was spent in boomed and the recession ended!
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Old 27-04-2012, 12:39 AM   #54
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It is alot harder than you think to get a job when your young i did alright at school and when i left started an apprenticeship i got made redudent so worked for agencies for a long time but its hard to plan anything when you dont know when you will have work next ive even got myself trained in another trade to try amd find work ive paid my taxes and N.I since i left school and id rather work than be on benifits and im from the generation were we are all work shy ive been lucky and the longest ive been out of work is a month but ive had to claim benifits just to get by but all ive been doing everyday is applying for jobs and i havent recieved anything yet im hoping i can find work before i do. So dont blame all young people because work shy is not a brush i want to be tarred with thank you very much
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Old 27-04-2012, 12:51 AM   #55
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It is alot harder than you think to get a job when your young i did alright at school and when i left started an apprenticeship i got made redudent so worked for agencies for a long time but its hard to plan anything when you dont know when you will have work next ive even got myself trained in another trade to try amd find work ive paid my taxes and N.I since i left school and id rather work than be on benifits and im from the generation were we are all work shy ive been lucky and the longest ive been out of work is a month but ive had to claim benifits just to get by but all ive been doing everyday is applying for jobs and i havent recieved anything yet im hoping i can find work before i do. So dont blame all young people because work shy is not a brush i want to be tarred with thank you very much
Mate you will go far if you keep that up It seems hard now, but rewards will come if you work hard.
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Old 27-04-2012, 12:59 AM   #56
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Mate you will go far if you keep that up It seems hard now, but rewards will come if you work hard.
I know it will but just got to keep on going from some of the phone calls and emails exchanged today things could be looking up thanks for the encouragement though
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Old 27-04-2012, 06:56 AM   #57
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Like Labour or not, blame them or not, fact is, a recession can be over in days if everyone spends their money as it has a knock on effect.
the economy is something that needs to be controlled - as it was, it didn't have a well tuned control loop and we had times of boom and bust. that's not what we want, so the conservatives are trying to put us on a path of steady, constant growth for the long term which will benefit us all in the long run.

david cameron seems to genuinely be in it for the long term good of the country, not for short term popularity policies just to win another election, and i respect him for that. however, Chip has better policies, so i'd vote him in next election
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Old 27-04-2012, 08:24 AM   #58
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for kids that leave school and young adults that feel life is free then why not enforce national service or a workhouse thing where they earn there dole money and learn skills at the same time !! im sure government owned factories set up to produce for export ect would work and given enough investment it would actually earn money and turn the inherrited workshy around and teach them theres more to life than just sitting around smoking dope or stealing or both
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Old 27-04-2012, 08:28 AM   #59
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for kids that leave school and young adults that feel life is free then why not enforce national service or a workhouse thing where they earn there dole money and learn skills at the same time !! im sure government owned factories set up to produce for export ect would work and given enough investment it would actually earn money and turn the inherrited workshy around and teach them theres more to life than just sitting around smoking dope or stealing or both
Absolutely, there should be NO long term benefits for anyone, but if people dont want to starve to death they should be given the option of some form of work to earn the amount they used to get as benefits.
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Old 27-04-2012, 08:31 AM   #60
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the economy is something that needs to be controlled - as it was, it didn't have a well tuned control loop and we had times of boom and bust. that's not what we want, so the conservatives are trying to put us on a path of steady, constant growth for the long term which will benefit us all in the long run.

david cameron seems to genuinely be in it for the long term good of the country, not for short term popularity policies just to win another election, and i respect him for that. however, Chip has better policies, so i'd vote him in next election

No government can make longterm changes with the current political system and a braindead electrorate.

It seems like what is going to happen though is everytime the tories try and put longterm sensible financial practices in place for this country like they are doing now then they will get voted out by a shortsided electrorate and those labour idiots get in again and briefly look great to the uneducated because they borrow a shedload of money we cant afford to borrow and hand it out to the poor and fund services we cant afford etc.
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Old 27-04-2012, 08:31 AM   #61
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there is no way you should be able to 'afford' to be down the pub on a saturday night pissing your benefit money up the wall getting pissed, or, afford to have a mobile phone, a laptop, a 47 inch flatscreen TV, a playstation etc funded by benefit payments

Where are these rich benefits people you talk about rather than just hearsay ?

Yes they exist but its not benefit money they are spending its there income from dealing drugs, trust me.


A friend of mine took his own life because he couldn't get a job, it was from people calling him workshy and a benefit scum and in the end he started to believe it himself.

Yes he was on benefits and very low income, £45 a week that would just buy him food and bus fair, it makes my blood boil when people believe the media, the media only shows the bad side and has always not the thousands who suffer.

And have you met all these future brainless workshy people of the future personally ? no its just hearsay from freds brothers uncles mate
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Old 27-04-2012, 08:46 AM   #62
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I think magnum,nick,chip and warren have got this one spot on.

Give everyone £2000 each to spend?

So that's another £120,000,000,000 were in debt but a nice idea I suppose although this being Britain 1/2 that would be spent on drugs/stolen goods etc so not putting anything back into the economy!!!!

A very sad state of affairs here at the moment but I also believe Dai Cameron is the one to steady the ship,remember our total borrowing as a nation is only bettered by china,and that's by about 0.02%,were worth a lot of money.

I also believe we never left recession,and employers are taking advantage of this.

For example,I applied for a job in 2010 that was £33k a year basic,same job popped up again this year,£30k basic,so how with the rising costs of living can they offer a £3k drop in money?
Cos there's fuck all work out there,graduates working in spar,cleaning,factories etc,all work that would normally be off their radar but now employers have a proper little pool of workers to choose from that they never have before.
Christ even getting a shelf stackers job in tesco is now held in high regard as a "good job" whereas throughout my youth this was always labelled as a huge failure "if you don't pass these exams your going to end up stacking shelves in tesco" said 99% of our teachers.

I come from an area where I've seen 1st hand the devastation of the loss of manufacturing.
Around the turn of the millennium mr Blair and co decided that Wales in particular would become the "call centre capital of Britain".
Manufacturing projects were shelved while millions,billions even was poured into an insdustry that made nothing,but paid ok wages.
16 yr old school leavers sitting in a call centre 10-12 hrs a day,earning decent coin,everything looked rosy.
All that's gone now,I think there's possibly 2-3 left out of 15-20,min wage at the very best now,unpaid overtime etc etc.
There's a place called Pyle smack bang between Cardiff and Swansea,used to have Borg warner,Orion,Sony and a plethora of smaller factory units there,all well paid jobs say £10+ an hour 5 years ago,now all gone,it's like a ghost town,it's really eerie to go down there.
My factory,ford Swansea closed,amazon opened up next door,average ford wage,£12-14ph,amazon wage,£6.50.
Ford was more specialist,but amazons harder work!!!

Giving people £2000 to spend sounds great in theory,but how about easily doing it in practice?Cameron says that no family on benefits should be better off than a working one hence the cap at £26000 but in all honesty how many £26000 unskilled jobs,even some skill disciplines are out there?
I'm not sure teachers starting out are on much more than that so where's the encouragement to work still?
I was watching a certain early morning tv show for chavs yesterday when I spotted two people in the audience who I know full well are on benefits,their not on there for test results etc just to watch.
So she's so ill he can drive her a 600 mile round trip,stay in an expensive hotel,top quality tickets,meet the "man himself",etc,record it on sky plus hd,watch it back on their new HD 60" TV yesterday when the shows on cos they haven't had to get up to go to work.
Took the kids on holiday last week,just spent £2000 on a barbecue,£3000 getting outside done all on benefit.
So who's the mugs?

The systems rotten from top to bottom and needs serious sorting out and tbh I'm not 100% sure where to start.
I think were potentially stuck with a benefits culture and totally removing the excess could end up costing us more eventually what with crime,social issues etc.
To me,why not try rewarding those who work more?
Why should a "carer" get a free brand new car of their choice every three years?
Why not give them a car built in Britain only (as was the original idea by the conservatives)?
Why encourage people to go to uni,yet tell them it's better to have a sub£20k job so they never pay the loan back?
You can't buy a house on a sub £20k salary and the £30k you borrowed never gets paid back,stupid.
There's loads of ideas out there by far cleverer people than me and IMO we need to take proper advice from real experts that have lived outside of London and seen the devastation of what happens to communities when their main employer is taken away,perhaps on a voluntary basis so there's no £££ involved,after all why spend billions on social housing schemes just to put unemployed people in them who may genuinely want to work but are afraid of doing so incase they lose their social housing!!!!
Spend the billions on sustainable work ideas,that way encouraging the population to spend their OWN money maintaining their own estates which means White van man is happy again,plenty of work,house prices increase in the area as it's no longer a shithole to live and all is well.
Well,in theory!!

Had to laugh the other day watching the "wright stuff".

They were harping on that public sector workers in the "north" should get less pay than those in the south cos rent/accommodation costs more.

My home town of Swansea got a mention as the lowest paid nurses in Britain on £17500 starting whereas London was nearer £21000.
Firstly,were further south than London!!!
The estate where I live was built in the 70's to house the expected huge rise in populous for the then new DVLC building,now of course our wonderful DVLA.
house prices then were affordable for those on public sector wages,you could have a nice 3 bed semi.
Now,the same 3 bed semi costs on average £250000 on this estate yet a Dvla worker gets say £20-24k a year,say partner earns £16000 so combined £40000 so £160000 max borrowing,not a snowballs chance in hell of living round here for that proving that public sector pay is way out of touch with modern Britain.
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Old 27-04-2012, 08:58 AM   #63
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Some very interesting comments on here.

Anyone who says we'd be better off if Labour had gone in is utterly mental. You're on another planet. They couldn't have stopped the Euro crisis, or all the Middle Eastern uprisings and uncertainty that has caused oil prices to go through the roof. And if you think they'd have been able to avoid all these cuts, then you're definitely off your rocker.

The cold, hard fact is that we're skint. We've been spending way too much for years, thanks to a blundering economic policy that wasn't looking at the longer term. That was fine, until the inevitable bust came along, and we hadn't planned for it suitably. Now we're paying the price. We weren't the only ones to do it either. Most of Europe did it, and now the Greeks and Italians are really paying the price of foolish, short-sighted economic policy.

While everyone is ranting about how it's the government's fault, or the banks fault, they're forgetting that we all have a share in it. While it was so cheap to borrow, we were all out buying shiney cars, big TVs, holidays etc. Most people in this country were living beyond their means, or falsely able to afford things that someone of their earnings shouldn't be able to afford. If you go back 30 years, would a family on average wage have two new cars, a nice house, top of the range TV and go on holiday abroad every year? Of course not, but now people seem to think it's the right to have those things because we'd all gotten so use to the good times created by the boom.

If you see the average member of the public interviewed or on Question Time, talking about the spending cuts or economic situation, it's generally plainly obvious that they're just ranting without any real clue of what's going on. It's easy to demand more money for the NHS, or to say how disgraceful it is that EMA has been cut, but that money has to come from somewhere. And when you're borrowing billions already, money can't just be made to appear out of thin air. The economies of the west are undergoing a massive shift; resetting themselves back to reality which, unfortunately for a lot of us, means we'll be worse off. But, will we be any worse off than we were before this false wealth we all gained? Most likely not, we'll just be back to normal.

The problem is, the middle earning bracket have just the same culture of entitlement as all the benefit cheating scumbags at the bottom, which is why you got middle class kids out in the riots last summer, looting TVs and things, claiming that the government owes them.

I do agree with a lot of the comments regarding the benefit scroungers though. We need a more difficult system. If you lose your job, you can claim benefit to help get you through hard times of course. But if you've not worked, then you get food/clothing vouchers that won't allow you to buy alcohol or cigarettes. A card for your gas and electricity meter and that's your lot. No cash required. And just for good measure, you're blacklisted from taking out phone contracts, Sky TV packages and anything else like that, because you shouldn't have the cash to be able to do it!
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Old 27-04-2012, 09:06 AM   #64
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Where are these rich benefits people you talk about rather than just hearsay ?

Yes they exist but its not benefit money they are spending its there income from dealing drugs, trust me.


A friend of mine took his own life because he couldn't get a job, it was from people calling him workshy and a benefit scum and in the end he started to believe it himself.

Yes he was on benefits and very low income, £45 a week that would just buy him food and bus fair, it makes my blood boil when people believe the media, the media only shows the bad side and has always not the thousands who suffer.

And have you met all these future brainless workshy people of the future personally ? no its just hearsay from freds brothers uncles mate

Sorry to hear about your friend but I've put just one example above.

I know hundreds of them mate,they honestly lead a better lifestyle than most people do,your mate like many of us didn't know how to work a system that's supposed to help people who've fallen on hard times not those who choose to live an idle existence.

I grew up mostly in the 80's with mass unemployment and many like your mate on £45 a week struggled for years to genuinely get work.

Fast forward 20 years and Blair and co offering doleys/sicknotes a lifestyle of free housing(of their choice),free car new every 3 years,free lesiure care,free money,average I know of £2-300 p/w,interest free loans,free house refurbishment the list is endless.

These people feel their "entitled" to it,yet I feel unless you've paid in,how can you be entitled to anything?

I've worked since 19,paid an average of say £15000 a year in tax/NI.
So that's 17x£15000 £255000 tax (wow!!!).
To me,if for some reason I find myself out of work,my take home salary now is say £2600 PCM,I'd like say £1350 of that for say 6 months to keep my mortgage and basic bills paid,no luxuries but not to find myself on the streets and any income protection I have on top (cos I paid for that).

I'm only getting back a fraction of what I've paid in and half my salary so I'm going to try very hard to get a job to get back to 100% of my salary cos I know in 6 months time I'll get zero.

Still,in the real world I left my own business which had zero start up help and was told I had to wait 13weeks for any benefit.

Thanks but no thanks,not worth me claiming as I was out of work for say 10 weeks,luckily I had help from family etc but without that who knows.

Also,a I'm a proper time served ford trained industrial spark and they expected me to work in a factory for a zero hour contract for £5.73 per hour.

The boy gold me these are "good jobs".

Yeah,for some fucktard who's only bit of paper is an asbo but not for someone who actually did a bit in his life!!!
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Old 27-04-2012, 12:49 PM   #65
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The probles in this society run so deep that I genuinely believe only a hardline authoritarian doctatorship for a few decades can fix it. Not that I want that, but that it seems the only solution.

Like I said, come the next election people will just vote Labour because they'll stop the cuts and continue to give money to everyone and everything.

All this is made worse when you realise that no party has it right either, so even if you wanted to vote for someone to really sort this mess out, no one will.
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Old 27-04-2012, 02:05 PM   #66
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My London mayoral election leaflet come through the post the other day. Just briefly reading it the only party that I liked the sound of their methods and thoughts was the BNP...
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Old 27-04-2012, 03:59 PM   #67
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The probles in this society run so deep that I genuinely believe only a hardline authoritarian doctatorship for a few decades can fix it. Not that I want that, but that it seems the only solution.
Most of the murdering dictators from history were given power by the same reasoning.

The problem with authoritarian rule is that it can't, by its nature, be limited to doing only the things you agree with.
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Old 27-04-2012, 04:19 PM   #68
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Most of the murdering dictators from history were given power by the same reasoning.

The problem with authoritarian rule is that it can't, by its nature, be limited to doing only the things you agree with.
And the trouble with non authoritarian rule is that it cant do anything that millions of scum who have the vote dont agree with, like making people work for a living
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Old 27-04-2012, 04:38 PM   #69
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the economy is something that needs to be controlled - as it was, it didn't have a well tuned control loop and we had times of boom and bust. that's not what we want, so the conservatives are trying to put us on a path of steady, constant growth for the long term which will benefit us all in the long run.

david cameron seems to genuinely be in it for the long term good of the country, not for short term popularity policies just to win another election, and i respect him for that. however, Chip has better policies, so i'd vote him in next election

Thats about right. Remember Labour will always bankrupt the country always the same. Even after the umpteen years they were in Power the Stock Market still fell in there tenure as it has done every time. With the Tories in it has always risen when they are in office.
You cant give money to every minority if the country cant afford it & to borrow is a joke it will end as it did in tears. Ive seen Northern political views drag this country down a few times in the last 50 odd years & the Tories revive it. David will do it again im sure but it will take time.
As for Chip hes a southener so at least sensible enough not to vote Labour.
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Old 27-04-2012, 04:43 PM   #70
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And the trouble with non authoritarian rule is that it cant do anything that millions of scum who have the vote dont agree with, like making people work for a living
Not true! True of our current brand of democracy, yes, but not necessarily a feature of non-authoritarian rule in general.

The problem, as I've said above, is that authoritarian rule is great when you agree with it. But that's not submitting to authority, as it coincides with what a person wants. That is the only reason anyone condones that kind of political setup; no-one actually likes or agrees with authority in principle.

Post enlightenment, this country, and particularly the US, ran on liberalism, not democracy. The two are in direct opposition to each other in some respects, as hard to believe as it is. Most people see democracy as a natural extension of individual rights and freedom. On the contrary, democracy is authoritarian: as you mention, that element shows where people are forced by a central authority, with the backing of a majority (mob rule), to give benefits to 'millions of scum' who have no intention of working.
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Old 27-04-2012, 04:46 PM   #71
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Most of the murdering dictators from history were given power by the same reasoning.

The problem with authoritarian rule is that it can't, by its nature, be limited to doing only the things you agree with.
never said I wanted it, just cant see an alternative though.
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Old 27-04-2012, 04:51 PM   #72
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There is a huge difference between benefits for someone who is on hard times and benefits for someone who never worked a day in their life
Absolutely - the system is there for people who need it, not the lazy cunts who can't be arsed, are happy to be supported by taxpayers and will never do a days work in their lives.

My feelings on asylum seekers and Somalians are crystal clear but the lot above are just as bad as they've never paid a fucking penny in either.
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Old 27-04-2012, 04:52 PM   #73
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never said I wanted it, just cant see an alternative though.
It would take a substantial percentage of people in this country to go against the current authority. I don't like the current authority, but since it's better than North Korea and I value being left alone, I'm admittedly not willing to stick my neck out and try to organise something like that.

So I'll remain one of those people who moans but never does anything about it. That's why nothing ever changes and it's why authoritarian rule seems attractive as it would just 'get things done' without us having to actually participate or take risk.
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Old 27-04-2012, 08:30 PM   #74
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Where are these rich benefits people you talk about rather than just hearsay ?

Yes they exist but its not benefit money they are spending its there income from dealing drugs, trust me.
rich in terms of what? not necessarily rich in the viewpoint of the upper working and middle classes but certainly "rich" when you consider their aspirations were only ever as high as minimum wage......

its not just drugs either. Plenty of money in theft and burglary, working cash in hand while on benefits etc.

Very few benefit scum are on the £45 a week you claim. Plus for a start that is the young persons dole money.

Most people get a minimum of housing benefit, council tax benefit and JSA at approx £60 a week.

in a dirt cheap rent area like stoke, you get £136 a week total.

a minimum wage job round here working 30 hours you get £170 a week. very few get full time anymore and 30 hours seems to be a "good amount" these days, many companies claim a 25 hour contract is full time.

So in a poor town like stoke, your only likely to be 30-40 a week better off working a typical job. Hence many dont bother. If you play the system you can be better off on benefits.

And yes you can live on the basic amount benefits pay. I know because i had to do it for 6 months when i left the navy. I had less than £50 a week after housing costs to pay all my living bills and i could with sensible spending still afford internet access, a PAYG phone, a takeaway every month and a night out once a month such a cinema etc.

so even the honest folk on basic benefits can survive if you choose to be a proper skin flint.

If youre dishonest, the most common and easy trick used is the couple declaring themselves as separate. They get more JSA and if one of them registers as living at home or elsewhere, they can get more money that way.

Then of course you have the families living on benefits. yes the significant majority are probably honest, but there is a significant minority who arent. The money that is supposed to go on the kids is frittered away on shit.

And then you get onto the abuse of sickness and disability benefits, both honestly paid and dishonestly. The biggest scandal IMO is where many disabled children/vulnerable people rarely see the benefit of the DLA and sickness benefits they are being paid.
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Cameron says that no family on benefits should be better off than a working one hence the cap at £26000 but in all honesty how many £26000 unskilled jobs,even some skill disciplines are out there?
remember the £26k is TAX FREE.

To get £26k take home under the PAYE scheme you need a job earning just under £35k.

£35k is well over the national average wage, let alone the regional average wages or average wage by job class.

an example in stoke,

single mum 3 kids, 3 bed house will get £412 a week or £21k a year.

Remember £21k a year is tax free and youd have to earn £28k before tax to equal it off benefits. Again above average wage and realistically well above the real average wage in many working class areas.

move in a boyfriend whose not declared and that goes up another £60 a week in jsa alone.

Go down to portsmouth and the same situation would get £470 a week or just under £25k per year. equivilent to £33k if you worked and didnt claim....

Hence why for many low moral, poorly educated people its a no brainer to go on benefits and milk the system by having lots of kids. You earn far more than you ever could on a minimum wage job thier education limits them to.

It rightly pisses off all those people who work hard to support themselves and their kids yet despite that, have less time with their kids and less disposable income than those on benefits. In fact in many areas you will find the dad works full time and the mother part time and still cant better the income on benefits due to low wages.

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And the trouble with non authoritarian rule is that it cant do anything that millions of scum who have the vote dont agree with, like making people work for a living
exactly. Dictatorships are not great situations but what is left?

Democracy is relatively new concept in human civilisation terms and in my opinion the UK (and some other countries too) are at or have passed the critical point where the scum vote is significant enough to sink the country.

I just hope the new "lows" this country will experience in the next couple of decades are enough to motivate the remaining decent folk to become politically motivated enough to vote for the best interests of the country in amounts significantly greater than the scum to cause social change.

However its also just as likely the new "lows" will piss of and demotivate more people so people leave and/or give up on what they see as a pointless vote, thus giving more power to the scum.

Just look at the last election. Labour only had to promise to protect benefits and got as a result a lot more votes than they would have otherwise got.

Unfortunately the "benefit vote" is too big now. Remember that includes decent folk on benefits and the scum. Sadly however, most the decent folk on benefits these days will always vote to protect their own interests rather than in the countries best interest, be that selfishness, short sightedness or self preservation based on their lack of political knowledge or understanding.
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Old 27-04-2012, 08:39 PM   #75
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rich in terms of what? not necessarily rich in the viewpoint of the upper working and middle classes but certainly "rich" when you consider their aspirations were only ever as high as minimum wage......

its not just drugs either. Plenty of money in theft and burglary, working cash in hand while on benefits etc.

Very few benefit scum are on the £45 a week you claim. Plus for a start that is the young persons dole money.

Most people get a minimum of housing benefit, council tax benefit and JSA at approx £60 a week.

in a dirt cheap rent area like stoke, you get £136 a week total.

a minimum wage job round here working 30 hours you get £170 a week. very few get full time anymore and 30 hours seems to be a "good amount" these days, many companies claim a 25 hour contract is full time.

So in a poor town like stoke, your only likely to be 30-40 a week better off working a typical job. Hence many dont bother. If you play the system you can be better off on benefits.

And yes you can live on the basic amount benefits pay. I know because i had to do it for 6 months when i left the navy. I had less than £50 a week after housing costs to pay all my living bills and i could with sensible spending still afford internet access, a PAYG phone, a takeaway every month and a night out once a month such a cinema etc.

so even the honest folk on basic benefits can survive if you choose to be a proper skin flint.

If youre dishonest, the most common and easy trick used is the couple declaring themselves as separate. They get more JSA and if one of them registers as living at home or elsewhere, they can get more money that way.

Then of course you have the families living on benefits. yes the significant majority are probably honest, but there is a significant minority who arent. The money that is supposed to go on the kids is frittered away on shit.

And then you get onto the abuse of sickness and disability benefits, both honestly paid and dishonestly. The biggest scandal IMO is where many disabled children/vulnerable people rarely see the benefit of the DLA and sickness benefits they are being paid.

remember the £26k is TAX FREE.

To get £26k take home under the PAYE scheme you need a job earning just under £35k.

£35k is well over the national average wage, let alone the regional average wages or average wage by job class.

an example in stoke,

single mum 3 kids, 3 bed house will get £412 a week or £21k a year.

Remember £21k a year is tax free and youd have to earn £28k before tax to equal it off benefits. Again above average wage and realistically well above the real average wage in many working class areas.

move in a boyfriend whose not declared and that goes up another £60 a week in jsa alone.

Go down to portsmouth and the same situation would get £470 a week or just under £25k per year. equivilent to £33k if you worked and didnt claim....

Hence why for many low moral, poorly educated people its a no brainer to go on benefits and milk the system by having lots of kids. You earn far more than you ever could on a minimum wage job thier education limits them to.

It rightly pisses off all those people who work hard to support themselves and their kids yet despite that, have less time with their kids and less disposable income than those on benefits. In fact in many areas you will find the dad works full time and the mother part time and still cant better the income on benefits due to low wages.


exactly. Dictatorships are not great situations but what is left?

Democracy is relatively new concept in human civilisation terms and in my opinion the UK (and some other countries too) are at or have passed the critical point where the scum vote is significant enough to sink the country.

I just hope the new "lows" this country will experience in the next couple of decades are enough to motivate the remaining decent folk to become politically motivated enough to vote for the best interests of the country in amounts significantly greater than the scum to cause social change.

However its also just as likely the new "lows" will piss of and demotivate more people so people leave and/or give up on what they see as a pointless vote, thus giving more power to the scum.

Just look at the last election. Labour only had to promise to protect benefits and got as a result a lot more votes than they would have otherwise got.

Unfortunately the "benefit vote" is too big now. Remember that includes decent folk on benefits and the scum. Sadly however, most the decent folk on benefits these days will always vote to protect their own interests rather than in the countries best interest, be that selfishness, short sightedness or self preservation based on their lack of political knowledge or understanding.

Warren you legend! spot on mate!
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Old 27-04-2012, 11:14 PM   #76
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glad someone agrees magnum PI A charity i volunteered at sacked me from volunteering because of such comments claiming they were discriminatory against the disadvantaged and vulnerable and hence a breach of their equal ops policy
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Old 27-04-2012, 11:31 PM   #77
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the comments above are bang on, however has no one noticed that the people high up in banking are still receiving 100k plus bonuses each year, yet it was THEIR gamble to risk buying dodgy loans in the first place. This is one of the significant causes of the credit crunch. Funny that they still seem to be getting their bonuses while the rest of the country falls into decline.

Also, no one has mentioned the whole claim culture we now have. Insurance premiums are getting stupid. (im 28 with 9 years NCB and im paying £70 a month on a ford puma) 6 years ago it was cheaper insuring my landscaping business and a flat bed transit. The whole whiplash clam bullshit has got to stop, its false money that gets carried over to the people who pay insurance.

Also, the whole 'buy to let' scheme has falsely increased house prices, meaning first time buyers like myself simply dont stand a chance !!
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Old 27-04-2012, 11:44 PM   #78
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people do notice the bankers on high wages. however there is nothing that can be done to stop that without a world wide change in the way the financial world works. If the UK puts excessive regulation in place then the bankers who are good at their jobs will just move elsewhere leaving us with all the shit ones And then we really will be in trouble

The credit crunch is only part of the greater problems in the UK. It wasnt just banks buying subprime debt either, it was stupid/desperate/thick people in the UK taking out loans they couldnt afford in the first place, let alone getting into more trouble when they got made redundant.

The claim culture is small fry in the big scheme of problems.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:10 AM   #79
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yes i agree, it amazes me how many people on benefits seem to afford 40'' lcd tvs and im working as i have for the past 12 years and now trying to study. Yet im flat broke, still have a crt t.v and hardly get to go out. Something clearly isnt right. Ive paid into the system and been fair about eveything.
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Old 28-04-2012, 09:14 AM   #80
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yep alex, thats exactly why so many people are very pissed off over the benefit and claim culture even if their anger is disproportionate to the actual costs.
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Old 28-04-2012, 09:14 AM
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