rules and regs on chassis mods

[rs tingle]

hi jus wondering if anyone has any info on chassis mods if ya did a rwd conversion would it need to go for a iva an go on a q plate if i did a fith gear conversion on a mk1 fiesta eg chassis leg cut would that need a iva an need to go on a q as there is so many different views on whats needed an whats wright an wrong

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[Iain Mac]

I had to get an SVA after making my XR4i 4x4.

[rs tingle]

i need to now bout the iva an the q plate bit as me bro has a mk1 fiesta an he needs to cut the chassis leg to do a 5th gear conversion an there are ppl saying it will go on a q plate

[M K]

You won't need to for that
mate

[-beefy-]

im just going to tell my local mot tester

" what you didnt know ford built a series 1 rsturbo that was rear wheel drive ?"

pmsl

[rs tingle]

i cant work out whats right an whats not see if you lot can make any sence
http://www.fiesta-mk1.co.uk/forum/vi...hp?f=1&t=13405
the link wont work as the mods removed it as it was gettin too heated lol

[PAUL S]

There area lot of radically altered cars out there these days like focos etc that are still running on the original donors ID rather than going through an IVA inspection.

The DVLA will be the least of the owners problems if such a car is ever involved in a fatal crash, I imagine the CPS would come down on the owner like a ton of bricks with some serious charges.

Its just not worth the risk in my opinion not to get them checked out and certified.

[M K]

if you read through the iva regs etc its mostly more to do with kit cars and the positioning of wheel gaurds/lights/plates/mirrors/ etc

if you are keeping all these things in place and as original its not gonna make a difference so if you want to get it checked for piece of mind them get it done

[Garage19]

Originally Posted by PAUL S

There area lot of radically altered cars out there these days like focos etc that are still running on the original donors ID rather than going through an IVA inspection.

The DVLA will be the least of the owners problems if such a car is ever involved in a fatal crash, I imagine the CPS would come down on the owner like a ton of bricks with some serious charges.

Its just not worth the risk in my opinion not to get them checked out and certified.

You are quite right.

Mark, technically your car should definatley go through IVA. It has a radically altered chassis.

Would i get it IVA'd if it was my car? Probably not. I would however be careful about taking third parties out in it as should imagine the insurance company wouldn't payout if you were in an accident.

[alistairolsen]

Originally Posted by M K

if you read through the iva regs etc its mostly more to do with kit cars and the positioning of wheel gaurds/lights/plates/mirrors/ etc

if you are keeping all these things in place and as original its not gonna make a difference so if you want to get it checked for piece of mind them get it done

Legally it needs an IVA as said. if you retain enough of the original car, or the donor you might get an age related plate.

Its not to do with kit cars, it applies to ANY car. One of the big problems is a lot of older cars wont pass now, so for instance take an old retro shell and weld it over a new chassis and it might fail on radius rules, or lower a car excessively and the headlights might be too low. All sorts to watch out for but so long as you build with your eyes on the manual youll be fine.

[M K]

i cant find it now but somewhere in there states that if the cars main use is racing an IVA is not needed, cant find it now tho

[PAUL S]

iva regs only relate to cars for road use, so race cars or track day only cars would not need it

[M K]

to be honest there is no reason my would fail or be q plated so maybe il get it done,

the chassis number is there an original with v5 etc
none of the lights or appetures have been moved from original dimensions
wheels are still in original positions just further out
seat fixings are strong as can be
seatbelt fixings are strong as can be
chassis is solid and welded properly
have engine numbers etc
all chassis work carried out by professional company
no vision problems
has all the usual horn/lights etc

does anyone see any potential problems

[Garage19]

Originally Posted by M K

to be honest there is no reason my would fail or be q plated so maybe il get it done,

the chassis number is there an original with v5 etc
none of the lights or appetures have been moved from original dimensions
wheels are still in original positions just further out
seat fixings are strong as can be
seatbelt fixings are strong as can be
chassis is solid and welded properly
have engine numbers etc
all chassis work carried out by professional company
no vision problems
has all the usual horn/lights etc

does anyone see any potential problems

No you should breeze it. Only thing i can think of is fuel cell in passenger compartment.

The only sting in the tail is it costs a whopping £540!

[alistairolsen]

Not main use, only use. If it is to be used on the road at all it legally needs tested.

Fuel in the passenger compartment is a definite no no, needs to have the filler outwith the compartment at least I believe, again, check the regs.

Is the car at standard ride height? If not check your light heights.

Depending on the exact nature of the project you might want to keep the v5 for the donor. If youve used enough bits of that then you will get an age related plate.

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg...mId=1081997083

[M K]

fuel cell will be in the rear of the car but under sealed cover with the filler cap piped into the rear quarter panel,

as for ride height its not going to be standard mk6 fiesta height lol but its on coilovers so can be raised etc to suit im sure,

no v5 from donor vehicle as i have not used one, just sourcing parts as i go along, but q plating should not be an issue as i can prove the age of the car still and its original id etc

[alistairolsen]

regardless of the original car it will go ona Q plate. A modified monocoque shell counts for nothing and you wont have retained either exle, the original steering, gearbox.....

[M K]

if these a risk of it going on a q i see why no one bothers to do it

[M K]

so if the likes of my car, ag focos, aly's orange 4x4 jwrc fiesta, dingla's focos, cochyn focos, beefy's s1 cossie etc all went to iva they would all end up as q plates?

[Horney]

Yes.

[Horney]

Here you go guys check out this link to a thread on Retro Rides.

http://retrorides.proboards.com/inde...d=74954&page=1

Tells you all about the fact that any mods to bulkhead or trans tunnel mean the car will need an BIVA or HIVA etc.

nick

[M K]

so reading throught them regs even the likes of the person fitting a skyline box to his escos would need one as he has altered the transmission tunnel to fit the new box,

i cant think of a single conversion car on here that hasnt been modified beyond the iva accepted standards

forget that then.

[percybigun]

how about if i fitted the mondeo 4x4 transmission bits to my fwd mk1 mondeo, its all pretty much bolt-on from the same year of car (apart from prop hangers) including rear subframe. i have all the bits to do it, but not so keen if it would need thingy tests and a Q plate! ? no tunnel mods are required.

[Iain Mac]

The Q plate won't happen JUST because of the need for an IVA.

If you have a standard car and have modified the chassis to fit a 5 speed bx, but have the same engine, steering, axles etc you should keep your own reg.
If you have used a shell and bits from one or more cars you will get a Q, not an age-related plate.
If you used a new shell and most bits from a single donor you would get an age-related plate. Multiple donors would give a Q.

[rs tingle]

Originally Posted by M K

so reading throught them regs even the likes of the person fitting a skyline box to his escos would need one as he has altered the transmission tunnel to fit the new box,

i cant think of a single conversion car on here that hasnt been modified beyond the iva accepted standards

forget that then.

exactly my point itsall a bit far fetched if ya ask me an theres so many different versions like vosa saying one thing then the dvla sayin different ya dont now which to belive

[Horney]

Originally Posted by Iain Mac

The Q plate won't happen JUST because of the need for an IVA.

If you have a standard car and have modified the chassis to fit a 5 speed bx, but have the same engine, steering, axles etc you should keep your own reg.
If you have used a shell and bits from one or more cars you will get a Q, not an age-related plate.
If you used a new shell and most bits from a single donor you would get an age-related plate. Multiple donors would give a Q.

Wrong.

You are allowed to modify the car and keep it's plate unless you end up with less than 8 points on the points system. On a monocoque car those 8 points have to include the 5 for the car body. As soon as you modify the monocoque with tunnel or bulkhead changes it needs an IVA and a new reg.

Nick

[Iain Mac]

Originally Posted by Horney

Wrong.

You are allowed to modify the car and keep it's plate unless you end up with less than 8 points on the points system. On a monocoque car those 8 points have to include the 5 for the car body. As soon as you modify the monocoque with tunnel or bulkhead changes it needs an IVA and a new reg.

Nick

What bit of what I wrote is wrong?

The only circumstances where you get 5 points for the shell is where you use the original shell or a new replacement shell.

If you use your own shell and sufficient parts (3 points worth) from the original car, you keep the original number

If you use a new shell and 3 points worth from a single donor you get an age-related plate for the donor car.

If you use a second hand shell and components from another car(s) you get a Q. Obviously, with the points from that donor car as well as the shell, you could get an age-related plate that refers to the donor.

Been there, done that, got the log book to prove it!

[Horney]

If you modify the shell (Cut the bulkhead, modify the trans tunnel) you lose the 5 points even if the shell is the original one. Without the 5 points for the shell it's go straight to IVA without passing Go.

Nick

[focusv8]

Originally Posted by Iain Mac

The Q plate won't happen JUST because of the need for an IVA.

If you have a standard car and have modified the chassis to fit a 5 speed bx, but have the same engine, steering, axles etc you should keep your own reg.

Modify the Monocoque which includes the chassis and you'll get a Q regardless of any points total.


From Dvla;
or a second-hand or modified chassis or altered monocoque bodyshell is used an Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA), enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA), single vehicle approval (SVA) or motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA) certificate will be required to register the vehicle. A 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.


.

[Horney]

ACE have attempted to clarify certain areas that go to the very root of a car's identity, and how much you are allowed to modify the chassis or monococque, before you lose the 5 points it represents.


We have been liasing with both DVLA and VOSA to clarify this area.
Initially we received this reply from DVLA:
"When assessing a modified/rebuilt vehicle, DVLA's main interest is to establish whether the original identity has been compromised by the changes made. If a vehicle has been modified from the original manufacturer's specification or if not enough of the original components have been retained in the build, the vehicle identity will change and IVA will be required to register with an alternative registration number.
Due to the very nature of rebuilding or modifying vehicles from their original manufacturer's specification, DVLA assesses each vehicle on its own merits based on the documentary evidence provided and a physical inspection of the vehicle.

The INF 26 information leaflet, and the information given on the website, is issued as a guideline to the registration of rebuilt, radically altered or kit converted vehicles. They are not meant as technical guides. However, both clearly indicate that if modifications are made to the chassis or monocoque bodyshell, or if the build does not include enough original, major components (as listed) the identity of the vehicle will change.
The information on www.direct.gov.uk is regularly reviewed to reflect changes in legislation

VOSA have provided the following response to your questions;

Monococque.

Q) What is the definition of a monococque ?

A) A design in which body and chassis are all one unit.

Q) Why does cutting into a monococque affect the vehicle identity if it retains the same shape /profile as before.

A) Cutting is considered to be modifying the vehicle from its original specification. Any modification to the chassis/monocoque body is considered to render the vehicle no longer original specification or of original identity.

[V8 EsCos]

Going by this....

The vehicles eligible for Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA) are:

passenger cars and light goods vehicles*

larger passenger vehicles, eg minibuses, buses, coaches

medium to heavy sized goods vehicles, eg trucks, heavy-goods vehicles

trailers


All you need to do is just fit the drivers seat so the car is not a passenger vehicle and will be exempt ?

Mark

[Iain Mac]

Well I had to put a bulge in the tunnel of my new shell and I still got an age-related plate for the donor. Admittedly, my change didn't affect the "chassis" part of the monocoque but VOSA and DVLA were both satisifed with the car and registered it last year.

If I hadn't gone 4x4 I was told I wouldn't even need the SVA.

[Horney]

They may not have noticed or chose to ignore it but if they stuck strictly to the rules they should have Q plated it. They do say it's done on a case by case basis though and with anything like this one tester is more lenient than another like MOT testers.

It's all a bit crazy anyway as going by the letter or the regs you can drop a 500bhp supercharged V8 in a classic mini with drum brakes all round and it's all legal. As soon as you up-rate the brakes and suspension to actually try and make it safe to drive you're then looking at needing an SVA and modding even more of the car to pass. Bonkers eh?

Nick

[rs tingle]

so most young kids cars that are on the road nowerdays are basically not legal

[warrenpenalver]

you need a friendly DVLA inspector or a woman one who doesnt know what shes doing and some shell reciepts that bend the truth slightly.

i think theyve closed all the loopholes for old cars claiming the work was done like 10 years ago You used to be able to use the loopholes to get retrospective based on the old laws for pre-sva aged vehicles by saying you didnt realise what had been done etc. Loads of old cobra replicas running on jag ID's got round SVA in that way by showing it was built before SVA rules and getting retrospective approval and new id. I suspect theyve got rid of all the loopholes to get round it now though.

[rs tingle]

so to say i did chassis mods on mk1 fiesta an slapeed 4x4 running gear into it and changed the axles ect would i i lose the id an have a q plate an would it cost a fortune to insure

[bigal1978]

Originally Posted by rs tingle

so to say i did chassis mods on mk1 fiesta an slapeed 4x4 running gear into it and changed the axles ect would i i lose the id an have a q plate an would it cost a fortune to insure

no you say the car was converted in 1985

[M K]

Wouldn't work for me as my 4x4 fiesta is an 03 plate,

I would not risk it being put on a poxy q plate same as 99% of other people don't

[rs tingle]

Originally Posted by M K

Wouldn't work for me as my 4x4 fiesta is an 03 plate,

I would not risk it being put on a poxy q plate same as 99% of other people don't

so how would ya not go about putting it on a q if its an 03 plate not tell em

[Horney]

Originally Posted by rs tingle

so how would ya not go about putting it on a q if its an 03 plate not tell em

THat's the way most people do it now, problem is more and more people are getting caught. Several cars have been forced into trailer queens as they just won't pass the test without major rebuilding. They're getting caught out come MOT time.. As these cars that have been in progress for years finally make it out of sheds/garages and roll into and MOT station the Computer MOT flags up anomolies with engine numbers and VOSA are all over it like flies round poop. As soon as they spot an dengine conversion or similar the cars V5 is confiscated and the registration removed making the car illegal to use on the road until re registered after passing the relevant test. Harsh but this was always gong to happen when they started computerising the MOT system.

nick