'That' cambered Mk1 Golf/Rabbit...

[FoleE]

Nice to see people's maturity on here has improved A couple of Ford threads on Ed38 http://www.edition38.com/forums/inde...opic=249397&hl http://www.edition38.com/forums/inde...ic=235437&st=0 I guess people in the VAG scene are more open minded? You get blinkered people in any scene but seemingly more so on here than elsewhere, except for the notable enlightened few, whose names I see have have also been added to the tags at the bottom. Something for PassionFord members to be proud of.

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[PeterRST]

To pour a bit more petrol in the fire...

Those Euro style pics a few pages ago. Some said there were big powered cars amongst them. Now this absolutely contradicts itself. You build a car form over function yet you still throw a capable engine in. If you take these cars out on any road surface that isn't exactly as smooth as your bathroom mirror, you'll probably be beaten by a granny in her Rover 214 while you are busy avoiding putholes or catching your rear end that's been hopping around for the last 3 corners...

[Ed_van_Dijk]

I like the onion, dont kill me

[Chopshop85]

Originally Posted by FoleE

Nice to see people's maturity on here has improved


I guess people in the VAG scene are more open minded? You get blinkered people in any scene but seemingly more so on here than elsewhere, except for the notable enlightened few, whose names I see have have also been added to the tags at the bottom. Something for PassionFord members to be proud of.

I think it just boils down to internet banter for the most part. There is always such people in both crowds. It depends on which side of the fence you stand.
Like you say people in the VAG scene are more open minded, in my experience this isn't the case. A friend of mine has an Rs turbo, a VW caddy, and mk2 golf. The caddy and mk2 golf are under restoration so he had to drive his RST to edition 38. Sure enough it got absolutely trashed over night.
There is just die hards in each camp.

[Oranoco]

Originally Posted by PeterRST

To pour a bit more petrol in the fire...

Those Euro style pics a few pages ago. Some said there were big powered cars amongst them. Now this absolutely contradicts itself. You build a car form over function yet you still throw a capable engine in. If you take these cars out on any road surface that isn't exactly as smooth as your bathroom mirror, you'll probably be beaten by a granny in her Rover 214 while you are busy avoiding putholes or catching your rear end that's been hopping around for the last 3 corners...

To be fair though that would only be up until the point the headgasket let go

[timrud]

When I say pre 80's I'm thinking Mk1 and Mk2 Escorts.

When I say 80's I'm thinking 3 Doors and Saphs, and the 90's I'm thinking EsCos.

Compare your 80's and 90's VW's and yes they are better than crappy RST's. But your smoking crack if your thinking VW has released cars that are better and more legendary than the cars I mentioned at the top of this post.

New cars, as I said, VW's are different class.

[jammerrs]

Originally Posted by Ed_van_dijk

I like the onion, dont kill me

it has stretched tyres....you must die for that comment

[jammerrs]

and whoever it was on about vws being the same....see how many cars on here pre95 havent got aps and comps

[massivewangers]

Originally Posted by MikeyMK

That fails on many levels,tbh.

You say fast MK1 Escorts,then say fast MK2 Escorts. Yep,because they had to be fast to be anything special,which is reflected in the rest of your Ford list. Slow Fords just have nothing going for them. A neighbour has a 53 plate mexican air cooled Beetle because there's still a market for them despite the refusal of the european authorities to allow it.
But you only mention the Beetle once. It was sold for over 50 years! And it didnt have to be fast to be loved by its literally millions of buyers. Put a brand new Sierra 1.6 up today and see the thousands queing to run it standard..

Same with the camper,which was doing well long before the Ford Popular/Prefect put the Escort conception in Fords nutsack,and still made in bay window form this millenium (not officially sold in the UK since the '80s).

But you stretch it out further. You can write every different type of Sierra Cosworth you can think of,and only one Golf GTi. But that doesn't shift the fact that the Golf GTi came out before any Sierra and is still on sale long after Generations of dull Mondeos failed to be anything more important than taxis. There's probably a V6 in there nobody knows about.

We dont have to change the scene for us,or wouldn't have to but for labelling by some narrow minded people who wanna label me because i drive a car with a VW badge. We're not the scene. Im not in the Nokia scene just because i have an N86 but it seems categorisation is everything these days.

Speed,it seems,certainly is. If i didn't know better,id still be of the view that Ford enthusiasts are just yobs.

Stop saying 'fail', you're not helping yourself any...

Sorry to drag up an old post in here, but I'm afraid this reply is just pretty poor to be honest with you. I didn't for one second say that a car has to be fast to have legendary status, perhaps you failed to see my point. But regardless of that, the MK1/2 Escorts are still massively well thought of, from 1.1 right up to the RS1800/RS2000/Mexico models. For their day they were a well-priced, reliable family car, that drove well and served whole generations.

I also only mentioned the beetle once, because it was only one car, so why would I mention it several times? It had a few changes over it's life, but it remained essentially the same. Let's not forget, it was designed as cheap, utilitarian transport. It was never a good car from a technical point of view, right from it's conception. It was cheap, and simple, making it good for transporting the beaten-half-to-death German population at the end of WWII, and it was a good way to help the German's get back on their feet economically too. It was a terrible car though. The engine is in the wrong place, it rusts like a mad thing, was basic, noisey and generally pretty terrible. It lasted so long because it was quirky and has remained a fashionable accessory for some. It was kicked to the side in Europe because it was out-dated, dangerous and nothing like as good as everything else. If you want proof of how crap the design is, think how many decades and millions its taken for Porsche to actually get a car of that layout to go round a corner properly, and they still get criticism even now.

I also mentioned different models of Cosworth, because they're all legends in their own right. The original 3dr Sierra Cosworth, brought 150mph, super car performance to Joe Average and set massive standard for performance cars in the 80s. The RS500 deserves a mention because it took that concept even further, and it's sheer domination of saloon car racing for a huge period of time around the world has secured its status. The Escort is different again; it brought back the wild styling of the original with the huge rear wing and massive arches. It was an absolutely epic drive, it was (and probably still is) one of the fastest cars to cross country in in the real world, and came along before the Impreza/Evo were even heard of. It's ludicrous theft rate and insurance premiums ensured it would go down in history as a legendary car. Drive down the street in one even now, and almost everyone will look. It's an icon, end of.

As for the Golf, I don't deny the MK1 was a legend. The GTI was the first hot hatch and is an iconic car, but it went downhill pretty soon after. The MK2 was ok but was already piling on the pounds. The MK3 GTI was far from special, and the MK4 was just a joke. The MK6 finally saw recovery, but it isn't really any better than the Focus ST/Astra VXR/Civic Type-R, so it certainly doesn't have the edge it used to. Sadly, in my eyes (and the vast majority of others), the Golf has had too many years of mediocrity to really merit legendary status since the 80s. Perhaps the newer models can change that.

As for the Mondeo arguement, that is just a catastrophic display of ignorance. Since it's birth in 1993; the Mondeo has widely been regarded as the best car in it's class. It's always outdriven the opposition and has been evolving ever since to still be a class leader. Modern examples are even better, boasting build quality that's just as good as the German stuff IMO, without the silly price tags. And you've obviously not done your homework, as the last sporting Mondeo; the ST220 was a fantastic car and, again, widely commended for its performance, styling and, most of all, its handling abilities. Why do you think the Police have armies of the things for traffic duties?

VW have produced some lovely cars over the years, I won't deny it, but in legendary terms, you've not got a hope against Ford. VW have a slightly better badge, which suits some people, but you have to pay for it. Ford have been building bread and butter cars for years and years that are affordable, reliable and drive well. And on top of that, when they put their mind to it, they can build a performance car that shakes the foundations of the car industry.

Originally Posted by timrud

New cars, as I said, VW's are different class.

I really wouldn't agree with that statement anymore. I think other manufacturers have gained absolutely massive ground on VW in recent years. Fords/Vauxhalls seem to be just as well built nowadays. VW are relying totally on this image of quality, but I don't think they're really any better than others. They don't justify their price. I'd sooner buy a Seat/Skoda. You get essentially the same product just without the price tag.

Incidentally, that last massive load of pictures put up...a friend of mine was with me when I was looking at those. He isn't even really that into any brand, and even he said they all looked basically the same, so it isn't just us Ford people that do it

[Nomaderst]

This thread is a great example of why this site has the reputation it does

[PeterRST]

Originally Posted by Nomaderst

This thread is a great example of why this site has the reputation it does

For being a great laugh?

[Nomaderst]

Originally Posted by PeterRST

For being a great laugh?

lol, yeah

[jammerrs]

massivewangers - i think your right in terms of legendary status because ford go on to race many of their cars which adds to this status imo, would as amny people be hunting down early escorts if they werent rallying them? i very much doubt they would, obviously people would still have them, but not as many imo

and vw havent really done much with there cars so they dont gain this legendary status as many cars that are only ever road cars dont get this imo

[ShedSpeed]

i must admit, i used to have a bright orange VW beetle 1200 and i loved it, even though the 'ultra reliable' engine blew up, but i replaced it with a 1600 twinport and loved it even more, so it rewarded me with its 'excellent build quality' and the floor rotted out.

i'd still get a beetle again if i had sufficient money to buy a solid one

i also owned an Audi 90 2.3e.
it broke down and someone stole it!

in comparison, my 1981 Mk1 Fiesta used to regularly catch fire, but it didn't stop it working! man i miss that car

[Skeetskeet]

Allright I think everyone needs to take a chill pill.

To be honest- this forum and the majority of its members have re-inforced a lot of my assumptions about the Ford community.

I still don't understand how you can think the pictures of the Fords posted on here look better than the VAG ones. Honestly- the latter just seem head and shoulders above the Ford cars. Its not even a comparison and I was expecting MUCH better pic of Fords than I got.

I respect some Fords (performance wise) but in terms of looks- I think the majority of them are bland and tasteless.

But then, maybe I'm biased. I will always say JAP> all but I'll leave it at that.

I guess we have to agree to disagree.

Everyone to their own.

Peace out.

[ShedSpeed]

you're perfectly entitled to your incorrect opinion

[sapph1]

Originally Posted by Skeetskeet

Allright I think everyone needs to take a chill pill.

To be honest- this forum and the majority of its members have re-inforced a lot of my assumptions about the Ford community.

I still don't understand how you can think the pictures of the Fords posted on here look better than the VAG ones. Honestly- the latter just seem head and shoulders above the Ford cars. Its not even a comparison and I was expecting MUCH better pic of Fords than I got.

I respect some Fords (performance wise) but in terms of looks- I think the majority of them are bland and tasteless.

But then, maybe I'm biased. I will always say JAP> all but I'll leave it at that.

I guess we have to agree to disagree.

Everyone to their own.

Peace out.

Not everyone in the Ford scene is blinkered towards Fords, i've got a Cossie and i like Fords, but i wouldn't not like a car just because its not a Ford, thats ridiculous!

My other half is a huge VW nut, and so are the rest of her family, we are currently doing a 20vt conversion on her mk1 Golf, her dad is restoring a splitscreen camper and is preparing a Caddy for her younger brother for when he passes his test.

Tbh, i find the VW shows more interesting on the whole compared to the Ford shows because there's more of a variety of cars, and more variety in how they are modified generally.

I really cant understand why people cant accept that while one person may think a cars amazingly good, someone else may think its shit, and while they feel the need to slag someone off for being different!!

[Adz The Rat]

Its been an interesting thread this one for sure!

I am a proper car fan and can appreciate most cars, Ive been a member on here for a while because I love Cosworths and there is usually something good to read on here.

I drive a MK3 Golf GTI, had a Corrado VR6 before this. In my dream garage there would definitely be a few Fords like a 2wd Cosworth and a Puma FRP.

It would be so boring if we all liked the same thing.

[ShedSpeed]

i do like the odd bit of Rat, but only when its done properly



i also have a penchant for obscure Jap motors

[zetec-Sam]

I think the problem is, on here most people take the piss out of everything, as a laugh, noone takes it personally, its just banter. You vw lot, come on, don't take it as banter, get your knickers in a twist and go off on one, saying EXACTLY the same thing about the cars we like, that we said about your cars, that got you all in a huff. At the end of the day, any car forum u go on, if you go on there and insult the cars they own/like, you'll get abused, end of.
Oh, and stop going on about blinkers, do people on forums have anything else to say when someone sticks up for thier pride and joy...

You can post a million pictures of something, it's not going to make them like something they don't...

As adz has said, it'd be boring if we all liked the same thing...

[dingla rs]

the thing i dont get is the hole camber bollocks ,an stretchd tyres if some one came in asking for that dune were i used work id charge them triple

can just see a vw trying go fast ,the tyres would be smoking,from rubbin on the arches

[Grahamdub]

Nice sig pic Shedspeed, I prefer this though ...

[massivewangers]

No one has answered my request either....I want to see some pictures of VAG cars modified for performance, rather than for looks. I'm sure there must be some?

I can appreciate a well put together car, whatever the badge it wears, I just can't stand these pointless cars that are modified to the point that they can no longer perform the basic function of being a car, and that is to drive along and not hit the floor constantly or wander about the road because the wheels are too wide, or the tyres don't fit properly.

So, come on, lets see some VAGs modified that the Ford world will appreciate

As for people saying to chill and all that, you can't beat a good mass-debate (), that's what the internet is for!

[RSTAaron]

A VW on stretched tyres AND with improved performance!!

[Horney]

Originally Posted by massivewangers

No one has answered my request either....I want to see some pictures of VAG cars modified for performance, rather than for looks. I'm sure there must be some?

I can appreciate a well put together car, whatever the badge it wears, I just can't stand these pointless cars that are modified to the point that they can no longer perform the basic function of being a car, and that is to drive along and not hit the floor constantly or wander about the road because the wheels are too wide, or the tyres don't fit properly.

So, come on, lets see some VAGs modified that the Ford world will appreciate

As for people saying to chill and all that, you can't beat a good mass-debate (), that's what the internet is for!

I posted this earlier:

Originally Posted by Horney

I give you "The Reeves MKI".

http://wolfsburgrs.blogspot.com/2010...eeves-mk1.html

Please take 5 mins out to look at the vids and pictures. That is a well modified and performance VW that I think you Ford chaps will appreciate.

Nick

but I think it got lost in amongst the ranting.

nick

[Horney]

Audi S3 Haldex 4wd with Seat Leon Cupra R 20vT lump running between 400 and 450bhp (can't remember the exact figure).








Nick

[Horney]

THis one could stir some interesting feedback.



The eagle eyed amongst you will notice a few features of the engine in this MKII that point to the more sooty of the fuels used in modern passenger vehicles. It is in fact a PD TDI engine from MKIV Golf era VW. Lots of trick bits including some added giggle gas mean this thing running big big power but insane amounts of torque. I'll see if I can find the figures but they're quite mind bending for a derv in a hatchback.

Nick

[Horney]

[massivewangers]

See that green MK2 looks really well. Always loved those Borbet wheels, they look sensible on it, fill the arches out nicely, and it's retained the standard body work, which suits the era the car comes from.

Proof that they can look good. Cars of that era just don't need to be messed with on the outside. And it just makes it even better when it has loads of power.

I can respect something like that. I'm not too into the MK2, but that's nicely done. More like that

[mozzy]

this is quite quick. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Id2O0vC7Lk

[twoblacklines]

I love cars like this but that camber is just OTT and makes the whole car look like its been modified by a retarded 12 year old.

[marky_g]

i love the vw sceen some rely coll cars but just dont get the camber thing, surely it ruins your tyres?

[speedy-tom]

Originally Posted by Horney

Audi S3 Haldex 4wd with Seat Leon Cupra R 20vT lump running between 400 and 450bhp (can't remember the exact figure).








Nick

i like that
just dont see the ened for rusty bonnets and stretched tyres lol

[Oranoco]

Originally Posted by Horney

Audi S3 Haldex 4wd with Seat Leon Cupra R 20vT lump running between 400 and 450bhp (can't remember the exact figure).








Nick

Now that, imho, is just about spot bollock on

[Rab]

Lordy lordy.... Still going on? It's not VWs that annoy me.... I like VWs, but ones like that green MK2 with 4wd and loads of power!

I don't like massive camber or stretched tyres on any car. If you did it to a ford I'd say it was crap. If you did it to a Renault I'd say it was crap. etc....

The MK5 Golf GTi is one of the best cars about these days. Just don't ruin it with 10x16's running 165 section tyres