Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Dude do you really need to ask?? I don't want to be rude but its been pointed out several times already, but if I need to clarify then there is absolutely nothing wrong with the graph as graphs go but what it does look to display is that the engine is lazy, not just a bit but very. Get more low down power and the car will be a completely different animal.

costina

iTrader: (1)

Yeah but of you went out in a old skool cossie with T4 and eight greens you still giggle your ass off.....the smell of fuel and a cooked T4 be just like snogging a old girl friend😂😂😂😂😂😉

Mark Shead

Not if you have driven a modern versionit would be ohh god when's it going to happen

Mark

turbotrev

Don't worry about being rude, I can take it.

Do you mean engine or turbo?

Like I mentioned I debated putting on a smaller better specced gt30 to make it possibly 800-1000 revs lower spool up but that would still only give me around 500hp.

I want to go for a bigger turbo keeping the spool up about the same as it is now but with a 600-700hp peak power, so if it comes on boost around 5k and pulls all the way to 8500 that is still a nice power band just higher up in the revs

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

Seeing as I'm a stubborn git I'm not sure I wanna know what the new modern specs drive like now ha ha

Cheers Paul

Mark Shead

Lol. You really need to drive one to understand the diff.

Mark

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

I'm no expert on this so forgive me in advance and if I've missed also I'll get my coat. But what is the engine spec of your car?? What cams are in it?? Who is your builder mapper??? Karl Norris I'm guessing from your window sticker?? Should you not be talking to Karl if so??

PS, I had a similar thing years ago, Jim Greens old Sapphire, engine was spec'd for a T4 and Jim changed his mind last minute and stuck a UT T38 on it and it was horrendous, I had a very similar graph (Mark) will clarify this and it was just awful, very very lazy indeed

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

Not from a hub dyno you don't, I've got 2 plots hubs made 812 hp, on Surrey rolling road made 840 crank HP, 30 hp per axle loss is about right ime for a hub dyno

This has also been backed up with real tarmac times

turbotrev

My graphs from the hub dyno...







Cheers Paul

turbotrev

Yeah I know mate

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

For rwd roughly I was told around 15-18% loss....

Cheers Paul

1374lee

iTrader: (11)

Yep, the T38 is a lazy turbo as had one to start with on my 1st mooney 3dr before upgrading to R/B T4 also has the t38 on my last mooney 3dr, lazy as I say, not the best choice of turbo and I won't be getting another that's for sure.

Anyway, great thread this, some great input by Mark and many owners, very interesting indeed.Some good comparisons on the graphs.

CheeRS.Lee.

BRAMMER

iTrader: (23)

What cams is it running Trev, I've got a GT3076 but mine car delivers power different to yours

Mark Shead

You would also want the cam timing as this can have a massive effect on delivery as well.

Mark

turbotrev

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick buddy, I wasn't necessarily asking for info, it was mearly a post of my results from a RR run, that's all.

Yes my car is set up and specced by Karl. I am happy with it as it is. It is a little laggy but the turbo will be changed. Like I said before I've just made do with what the car had when I bought it.
Soon I will be changing the turbo.

It is low comp, 200 block, Cosworth racing Pistons, neil roper head, Karl's cams with solid lifters, hart inlet, 83lb injectors, l8, air injectors, hybrid GT30, live mapped, 80 shot of nos upto 1 bar of boost.

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

That's the turbo I was gonna run for less lag and a similar power but I wanna go bigger now.
Yours is lovely Chis and makes awesome power!!

Cheers Paul

BRAMMER

iTrader: (23)

My cam timing is completely different to what is listed for the cam, mines 118 degrees

moondustka

I think it's fine to have an engine that comes on boost at 5000rpm and goes all the way to 8500 if it's a track/circuit car as that's where it'll spend most of it's life.

For a road car on the other hand, you'd have to be in the right gear at the right time or you're gonna get roasted by a 300hp Fez that pops up

Twin scroll turbo and manifold should sort out power lower down with maybe some DBW on something like Syvecs/Life Racing.

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Paul,

You'll be suprised the difference cams can make, that's all I was saying bud, not having a dig. Engine's can be specd incorrectly bud

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

Load of twadle, nowhere near that my gtr made 928 hub hp, it's about 960 crank hp 60-130 mph in 5 seconds

At 18% I'd be 1130 crank hp from 2 gt30s on small exhaust housings, not a chance !

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

Ops car will be a fast car just not easy to drive, my supra was laggy as hell but also fast as hell and great fun to drive mentalist car, nothing nothing nothing and spinning at 100mph lol

turbotrev

Mine are 115 degrees, but to me that means nothing lol

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

Oh no doubt buddy.

I've seen some shoddy engine specs before trust me ha ha.

I do agree with Moondustka too, I guess mine is more of a 'track/racing' spec rather than a 'road spec' I guess.

I've never been on a track yet ha ha.

But I've not lost a race yet either....

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

That's interesting, I just assumed the losses were a lot more, only from what I've been told in the past like

Cheers Paul

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

I used to think the same mate, I had an r33 gtr make 650 at all 4 hubs, 30 hp loss per axle so 710 hp crank, did 30-130 in 9.7 seconds which is about right, seen lots of times of supposedly 700 hp gtrs doing 30-130 in 12 seconds they've been Miss informed by dynos I think, the black stuff doesn't lie it can confirm dyno plots though that's how I look at it

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

The problem is in 2 years time the ps4 will feel like a old Atari when the ps 5 or 6 comes out.

Let's face it in 20 years time their won't even be a steering wheel in a car.

3 yrs time efrs will be old hat like gt,s are now

Mark Shead

Lol the efr has been out for 6years so far and none of the other manufacturers have anything so far. Hopefully someone will as it would be great to get something better as that would be awesome.

Mark

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

Exactly mate, I'm told my gt30s are old shit and need efr's,
I'm not doing it not needed at all just a waste of money

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

Surrey rolling road is regarded as realistic I'd say you've certainly got over 500 hp, all its lacking is revs, msd mapped my yb to I think 7800 rpm iirc it will have a good band then that's all I'd be looking for if it was mine

turbotrev

It's my turbo restricting power top end of the revs.
This turbo just won't flow more power.
When a bigger turbo goes on with less efficiencies the power won't be restricted

Cheers Paul

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

That's what I mean mark,something better will replace it at some time which is progress. It doesn't always mean what was about beforehand is shite.

Why are we all still fooking about with cossies when we know theirs way way better cars out there.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

You need to watch for surge aswell my t4 yb surged it's tits off below 5000 rpm fluttered like mad

Get them revs up to 8000 and stick a gt35 on it will be monster

As a side note on a gt40 I picked up 100 hp just from turbine housing going from 85ar to 105ar at same boost !
I was informed by a reputable tuner my housing change will make no difference, I picked up over 100hp and 1.5 seconds quicker 30-130 needless to say I havnt used that tuner again, I trusted my gut and I was right

BRAMMER

iTrader: (23)

I wouldn't worry too much about power, we will soon be returning them back to standard in order to sell on to someone who believes the Ford Sierra is the holy Grail of automotive history and is willing to pay obscene amounts of money to remind themselves of 1980's Ford technology

turbotrev

By the time I've finished modding mine there will be too much to change to revert it back to standard!

Modded all the way for me

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

I have the revs already in the fact it will do that no problem, just wanna swap the turbo out for something like you said with a few othe small mods (exhaust and fuel system) then see.

Have you had a gt35?

What car did you gain the power on swapping the gt40 housings?

Cheers Paul

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Im the same couldnt own a standard one lol

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

Owning a standard one is great it's driving a standard one that isn't

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

This true loose the will to live as a golf tdi passes you

moondustka

The GTX-R range is just out. Depending on the rear housing selection these are meant to be as good if not better. And more reliable? Or so I've heard.

On another note.. transmission loss is totally car dependent and what transmission you have. The Cosworth stuff from 30 years ago is archaic and will be no comparison to a GTR.

15-18% is about right for an average 4x4 system. The GTR will be much lower than that as it's a much better engineered system. FWD usually has the lowest transmission losses. Transverse mid-engined will be the same. Rear engined will also be similar like Porsche. But every car is different, that's my point.

Mark Shead

Better than what the efr if they want to compete with that they need to half there exhaust weight. The normal gtx 30 range was a shit upgrade I would call them a down grade over the old Gt range.

Mark