turbotrev

Was that for me or Steve 4i?

What do you think the losses should be through the transmission?

Cheers Paul

Rick

It's a very narrow power band. Only revving to around 6700 too. Have you checked for boost leaks? It appears very lazy for GT30 turbo, but is good power for a GT30. I would pressure test to ensure you are not losing boost.

Rick

turbotrev

I am not losing boost, but your right it is a lazy gt30.
It's not a narrow powerband really.... it revs to over 8k, it's just the RR operator stopped the graph at peak power....

Cheers Paul

Adam-M

Can anyone explain to me how a modern ecu will make an engine spool up faster than it would with say an L8/P8 that's been live mapped? Whats the difference? I thought these new ecus where more about adding safety features I didn't think they actually helped performance?

Assuming the L8 was running wasted spark and had a new loom ect.

turbotrev

Exactly mate, they don't.

My engine management is in good shape, so I see no reason to change it.
Sure it's a good mod if you can afford it or warrant changing it but otherwise what's the point?

Cheers Paul

Rod-Tarry

There lies your problem you aint got a clue fella. Just enjoy you car whatever you build but if you think its going to compare with a latest Spec car your a dreamer. Just look at that Graph its about the worst ive ever seen. When the owners of the two Fastest Cossies there have ever been tell you its bad perhaps fella you should listen.

Caddyshack

I am sure Mark Shead can give a more informed answer but in my very basic knowledge....Turbo engines go wrong very quickly when they go wrong so more safety features allow you to run more closely to the envelope with more being checked and controlled. I also believe things like boost control, coil on plug, types of injector all play a big part and I understand that the ECU can do things faster and with more parameters...I could be wrong on all this.

stevieturbo

That depends largely on how your boost control is configured and what any controller allows you to do.

And a better ecu will give better performance and safety all round....as long as it is tuned correctly. They'll offer better resolution and allow you to run things more precisely to get the most from it.

turbotrev

I do enjoy my car, and it's a hoot to drive, I wasn't trying to compare is to one of the latest spec cars??

What's so bad about the graph? Besides the late power delivery?

Cheers Paul

cossynut2

turbotrev, unfortunately when a post like yours comes up you will get a lot of negative comments. It sounds like you have the basics for a powerful car but maybe you havent had the best advice on how to achieve it. There are a lot of very knowledgeable Cosworth engine tuners who know their stuff who could perhaps help you with your future upgrades to get the most out of it.

stevieturbo

A power graph only tells so much....graphs can vary from day to day, dyno to dyno etc etc. That's why often it's best just not to bother.

Use them as they are intended, as a tuning tool. Before/after gains whilst tuning.

The main concern would be the late power delivery, it just seems like a lot for ultimately a fairly modest big number. I'm sure many would expect a car with that power to spool a bit faster. But as with everything, there are many variables.

If the car drives well, goes as hard as you want it....never worry about what others think. But when you post graphs, expect both positive and negative ( or real ) comments.

Same would happen with posting any such data.

It could be worse....you could post about building bits of your car using drain and sewage pipes from B&Q....wonder how that might go ? lol

cos elle

What gt30 turbo is it mate

turbotrev

I noticed! Ha ha.

I new I'd get all sorts of comments good and bad, I take on board any comments.

I'll await replies from the real negatives ones, if people have and opinion I'd like to know the reasons behind it such as Martins comment.

I do have dealings with a decent tuner but have not mentioned that yet as to keep things turning into turner wars again....
Although I'm guessing some people have noticed already....

Cheers Paul

cossynut2

Thats why I didnt put names to the tuners as that could open a whole new can of worms!!

Mark Shead

The graph looks like the engine spec is aimed at max power and if that's how you like it that's fine.
The way I spec stuff is I would rather loose 20hp and pick up 60ftlb and that also brings in the response earlier.
As far as aftermarket goes tech it shouldn't make more but it does. Play old school Atari and then PS4 this is the diff in knowledge and spec of the ecu diff you currently have to the new type aftermarket.

Mark

turbotrev

This is the other thing... I bought this car a few years back because it had a lot of the main parts I was gonna need anyway, 200 block, supra diff, modded head etc. It was originally built by Joe Stevens at Bluesprint.
This turbo was already fitted to the engine and I've just left it on there for these past few years while I've sorted out the car in other areas, hence the engine being ready for more power which I was the route I was always go go down eventually.

It's a gt30 hybrid with a bigger compressor wheel than normal and a billet wheel, roller bearing core and a .82 exh housing, that's all I know....

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

Bring on the worms, debating is good! Ha ha.

Wether I choose to listen to people or go ahead and do my own thing anyway it will always make a good discussion I guess lol

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

I guess in a way that is what I'm after...??

I don't need a car that drives with super low lag and that I can accelerate with when in 5th gear at 65mph, it's a fun car that gets used for the few thousand miles or so a year that I do in it.

A while back I did debate dropping down a turbo size possibly to a smaller better specced gt30 but it would never do more than about 500hp so I decided that's not what I wanna do as I want more power.

It would be less laggy and a better 'road car' in that respect but it's not what I'm after.

I want something frightening.

Cheers Paul

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

With Ecus the webber ecu has iirc a l6 has a 8x8 table and the l8 a 12x12 table now when you are mapping for big boost big power you are basicly spreading each load site a long way to achieve the fueling and timing you require .Now a modern aftermarket ecu will have at least 32x32 table .Now until recently the algorithms were not the clever in past aftermarket ecus compared to the oem ecu as for old tech the l6/l8 were brilliant on throttle transients and multiplexers are what makes it possible to widen the load sites as mentioned earlier but now modern ecus are very well done with great software so the first thing I noticed the car started cleaner on my link ecu then also felt crisper more responsive and fueled so much better than my l8 .

Now my change of ecu was done with a identical spec engine so i could log and compare the data at the time and the differemce was not only night and day in the data but the drive felt so much better and more modern and couple that with all the other controls I.E Knock control boost control ect its a no brainer

turbotrev

Do you say that because it makes its power so far up the Rev range?

Cheers Paul

Mark Shead

It's the very late nature of the tq band that kills if for a road car for me.

Mark

turbotrev

I do understand what your saying and mostly agree.
I am happy with the way my car drives i.e. Part throttle, cold start, fuel economy, etc.

And if it's doing it's job and I'm happy with it then it will stay until I feel the need to spend 2k plus on upgrading

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

But this would change if a different turbo was fitted be it a Garrett, efr, etc....

Like I said before I have nitrous fitted as well to spool the turbo up so it does make power from 3k upwards.

I may even try and get a power run somewhere with using the nitrous just to see the graph.

So in a way I'm guessing that's kinda how an efr responds with such good low down torque??

Cheers Paul

Mark Shead

It's more than 2k😂 Wait until you drive a car with one on as its then you notice your car wasn't quite as good as you thought lol.

Mark

Mark Shead

You are still at the mercy of your engine spec. So a correctly specced set up will work but it won't be as good as it could but that may not matter if it gives you what you are after.

Mark

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

When i get mine over to you and get it finished he can drive mine

Mark Shead

Anytime just call. Building cars and engines so can move stuff easily

Mark

turbotrev

More than 2k ha ha,

This is the thing, I do want to go in one/drive one.

I'm not saying my car is the best by any means, and I've no doubt newer tech is gonna be better

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

Oh 100% mate

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

I thought yours was finished buddy??

I appreciate the offer Jay 👍🏻

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

You on a 7064?

Cheers Paul

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Just needs the mapping finished

Yes Bud

Adam-M

Cheers for the explanation Jay, having knock control would be a great advantage aswell as the ecu properly control the boost.

See on an efr you have the blow off valve built in and a boost solenoid, where does the electrical connector for the solenoid go? Would it need connecting to the old Amal valve wiring or does it need an aftermarket ecu to use this feature?

turbotrev

I will put my at the wheels hub graph up later that I had done about 6 months ago.

That'll really feed the haters, lol

Cheers Paul

3doorcozmess

I'm also going 7064 on sm4 which I hope is classed a modem as the sm4 could be classed as old tech now.

my engine is done just need to get it in the bay and over to MAD.

Maybe we should sort out a proper RR day next year old vs new and get it featured?

seems like the mags don't do this any more unless you have a focus of fiesta.

Jay I don't know you but you seem like the guy to sort it out lol.

turbotrev

Def modern tech mate, more modern than my old level 8 setup anyway ha ha

Cheers Paul

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Im using the recirc valve on the turbo and plumbed in as a standard one IE to the inlet and not using the control valve as we already fitted a mac valve on the new loom so there was no point changing it

Cossie Sammins

All these people who think they need a custom or new ecu, think on this -

The RS500 had a basic ecu and when tuned even with that ecu, could make 500 bhp.

New ecu's are all about refinement and ease of access

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Thats right with low comp slow injectors and even slower spooling turbos . Just because it works dont make it better

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

My saph had a GT3076r with a 0.62 housing and it was laggy as hell. Showed a similar graph plot to Turbotrev and it was horrible to drive on the road - literally nothing until 4500rpm and then it all comes in with a bang - could not drive that car quick or hard as it would just break traction everywhere when the boost comes in.

This was on aftermarket management too so its not just that but the whole spec