doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

Which would make perfect sense as to why all of a sudden there was a huge plume of smoke/dust ploughing off track onto grass at 70mph+

doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

Correct you do not get full disclosure

Vacuman

Back to the Focus / Fiesta crash. Everyone is focused (sorry) on the costs to the owners for the damage to their cars. But what if, for example, the Fiesta driver (who seems to be the innocent party) was left with life-changing injuries.

Perhaps the car owners were naive in not thinking about how much a crash might hurt them in their pockets but if one had been left literally legless, it would be the tax payer that foots (sorry again) the bill for their medical and other support for the rest of their lives.

matthart

I went on track at ford fair a few years ago, it was a novice session early in the day, had the briefing all about how you cant overtake a car unless outside of a corner, or on the straights they put an indicator on to let you pass. We were told quite sternly that if you overtake outside these rules you would be black flagged and removed from the track.

I spent the entire time stuck behind a bloke in a TVR thing who wouldn't let me past, which sort of ruined it for me, whilst plenty of other cars flew past us whenever they liked. Nobody was black flagged, nobody gave a shit. The rules are pointless because nobody enforces them.

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

have heard from a few people that the jamsport driver was being a twat on track and have videos of him overtaking all over the place

_Jimmy_

The track day forms usually state something along the lines that you accept liability except when it is a result of negligence, so there could be a case for negligence either against the focus driver or the organizers, seeing as the focus wasn't being reprimanded for bad driving standards and also allegedly using slicks which weren't allowed.

Roosie

iTrader: (8)

i race in a race championship and had my 8k ax gti written off by someone who spun off trick and came backwards across the track and destroyed my car, not much you can do but just grin and bare it really.

video of accident

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

My mate was running slicks on his fiesta and it was never mentioned to him. Was never mentioned in the driver briefing either so assumed it is allowed

Cos500

That's what insurance is for, if neither had insurance I guess it will be an expensive lesson.

Roosie

iTrader: (8)

am i right the focus driver is a proffesional driver that races in Renault Clio Cup thats been said?

_Jimmy_

Ah ok, I heard they weren't allowed but only from forums so could be wrong.

Oranoco

If he was a professional driver he should have been even less likely of being involved in an incident than us mere mortals and been far more aware of his ability and made the necessary allowances for far less experienced drivers.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

that's the story doing the rounds yes

and while i've been fairly sympathetic towards him for baring the brunt of the blame and abuse online, more and more tales of his blase attitude on track have started to change my onion of the chap

of course no one wants to put the blame on someone if it's "just an accident" but i've now seen plenty of videos of the track time that day and folks are overtaking literally left right and centre without a care for whats around them

overtakes on corners up the inside, outside, weaving through the slower traffic

and slicks, no one is allowed slicks so what were the marshalls checking?

and long sleeves were supposed to be worn, yet everyone was getting tanned arms

a distinct lack of standards that day, and any indemnities signed would have a good case for being thrown out and someone made to foot the bill if more and more of this comes to light

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

Dojj - i noticed before going into the driver briefing people in the pit lane were wearing shorts and t-shirts so asked the question at the end of the briefing and was told as its a hot day you can wear shorts and t-shirts as long as its not a convertible you are driving.

luckily i took some shorts with me

dojj

iTrader: (3)

windows slightly open, arms and legs covered, bolted in cameras only, etc

i didn't even have any back seats or parcel shelf yet i had to open the boot lid to show them there was no one hiding inside

as said, so lax this time around it's shocking

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

there was no scrutineering mate this year. I had a go pro stuck to the screen and my mate was holding the other in his hand.

No one checked my car over or done a DB sound test

Harris.

If above is the case then the Guy driving the focus was clearly going way to fast and not taking into account track rules if he was passing on the left and right and driving like a retard .


Like everyone else has said Track insurance is there for a reason but still no excuse for poor driving .


Even so , id of knocked the guy out .


I had some newb pull out the pits at Brands hatch on me in a Honda civic Type R , I must have been doing around the 100 mph mark and he just swung left , my pants were brown that day . Nice guy though he came up to me after and said sorry he was new etc .

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

Dont mention that on Dojj's facebook post as you will get called an Internet Gangster as thats the mistake I made

dojj

iTrader: (3)

you can JUST make out the incident in your video, but only just, no idea where he came from though as he doesn't seem to have overtaken you at any point in the previous lap so i concur with the others who say he'd just come directly out of the pits and BANG!!!! dirt has gone

Harris.

I wont lol But you know what I mean .

focusv8

Precedents can't be set in a County court.
http://e-lawresources.co.uk/Judicial-precedent.php

Fullflush

Disclaimers are surely to protect the circuit owner rather than the drivers from claims?

fuzzy

disclaimers don't absolve you from blame if its your incompetence that's caused injury or loss to anyone no matter what you put on a sign.

bgreywolf

About 20 years ago (it doesn't seem that long, feck, I'm getting old!) I was racing my beat up old FIAT X1/9 (1977, 4-speed, black...ah, I liked that little doorstop). I was in the Street 3 class, moved up from Street 4 because I'd done well in previous competition. My car was minimally race prepped (to the extent ST4 allowed: stock drivetrain, you could remove anything you wanted--like the whole interior, you could add cages, etc--and the cage saved my life!--but you couldn't add anything that would increase performance above stock. You could run any street legal tyres, including "DOT slicks"; I was on a nice set of TOYO Proxes, I remember because I'd JUST bought them).
The road course at New Hampshire International Speedway has a tight chicane followed by a sharp hairpin to the right (we were running anticlockwise). There's a couple jersey barriers to close off what would be the oval track, and a good tyre wall in front of it.
I had just gotten around a 1993 Mustang Cobra being driven by a novice (should have been ST2 but they bumped him down for his first solo laps) who couldn't figure out how to corner, so he was stomping his brakes as he approached the end of the straight.
He decided to follow me around the corner, but he couldn't make the hairpin, plowed ahead and struck my FIAT in the passenger door, pushed me through the tyre wall and into the concrete barriers.
Both cars were done. I'd removed my entire interior except a cage (stock gauges attached to the cage) and a racing seat and harness. If I'd had a passenger's seat (LHD, so passenger on the right) it would have been in me. The cage was bent and the door was wrapped around it. The Mustang engine and transmission were off the mounts and the driver of that car was pretty bad looking, bloody and unconscious.
He got a ride to hospital, but he was just scraped and bruised so he was back at the track to collect the wreckage of his car that afternoon.
Neither of us had insurance, but it was racing, so that was that. I dragged my wreck onto the trailer and towed it home. He had to get a wrecker for his heap, and his girlfriend had to collect him, as the car was his daily driver.
It was worse for him: he was still making payments, and insurance wouldn't give him a dime. My FIAT was purely a racecar, and that was that.

I guess I'm saying, you go out there knowing the risks; you sign a waiver; and if you can't afford to race it, you should think twice before heading out on the track.

Fullflush

I do not know for sure, but American law may be slightly different to ours over the issue?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i see what you are saying, racings racing

BUT

this wasn't a race

it wasn't a track day

it was an opportunity to go around silverstone for a few laps, nothing more nothing less

http://www.fordfair.co.uk/public-track-time-0

Public Track Time

We have packed the track timetable full of public and club track sessions to take part in throughout the day.

If you’ve always wanted to take to the famous Silverstone National Circuit, you can take your own car out on track for just Ł30 for a 20 minute session. We have sessions to suit all abilities, so anyone can get out on the tarmac.

Novice – little to no track experience
Intermediate – little track experience, has taken part in a few track days
Advance – has taken part in many track days and has considerable track experience
Click here to purchase your track sessions

Before you purchase your track session, please read and familiarise yourself with the track time rules below.

Please note all track sessions are for Ford cars only. We will exercise the right to refuse entry to any other vehicles. You will also need a valid entry ticket for the show and to bring the paper section which accompanies your driving licence. This can be downloaded from the DVLA website and brought with you. No refunds will be given if you do not provide the correct documentation.

Passenger Tickets
Why not take a friend out on track with you in your car? Passenger tickets are just Ł10 and can be purchased in advance or on the day.

and here are the rules

http://www.fordfair.co.uk/sites/defa...%20Rules_0.pdf

and they say this:

Insurance: It should be noted that standard insurance does not cover track driving. Please make your own arrangements for accident cover

seeing as most of the other rules weren't enforced, is there grounds for a case to be bought against the organisers?

bgreywolf

I would guess we've got more people who are likely to sue, but it was your bard who said "First let's kill all the lawyers" so I may be wrong about that.
Like your track, before we even get our cars in the gate we have to sign waivers--vehicle, medical, rules of conduct. I'm sure they've added 10 more since I last ran a closed track.
So really, unless there's personal liability sufficient to reach a criminal standard, or a civil lawsuit standard, then there's nothing to do but smile and walk away.
Legally, any negligence can bring a lawsuit--whether it's a racing accident on a closed track, or failing to clear ice from the front steps in winter. Still, you'd have to prove that a negligence was significantly beyond the existing danger of driving a performance car at its limits on a closed track, in the presence of other vehicles doing the same...in my case, I don't think that standard was met.
Likewise, if the track personnel aren't doing their job of pointing out negligent behavior (illegal passing, poor driving, blocking, improperly equipped vehicles, etc) then it's going to be that much harder to prove that someone is personally responsible for an incident.

Fullflush

You also need insurance for the road. If you drive with no cover and cause an accident, the recovering insurers WILL take you to Court.

Was a disclaimer signed saying all drivers are absolved of all blame of any accident? I doubt it.

Did the circuit do any checks around insurance? Did the Fiesta driver have any?

If I was the Fiesta driver I would put an appeal for witnesses to contact him and lodge a claim at the County Court.

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

Ford Fair has always had poorly regulated track time.
May be as its part of a 'show'.
Personal risk if no insurance taken out........ Simple.
You had a choice !!

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

I disagree. Legally i can see ZERO difference to track sessions at a show as opposed to track sessions on a track day. Same rules, same waivers same restrictions on drivers and cars.

Just because you are more likely to get idiots at such events compared to a dedicated track day doesnt effect liability in any way shape or form.

Kazi Sagar

Toyota Bangladesh Driver of the Blue Car which got hit.

JOHNDQ

Every year I watch these videos and see the same thing Imo, a over packed track with people of different levels of which some think they can drive and think there in race cars. I think a lot of people book these things because they cant afford a proper trackday but chose to treat it like one anyone must be mad to take a car on track with some of the people out there

STeve

iTrader: (11)

No matter who you think was right or wrong be it a cavalcade parade lap, race or sightseeing, its a racetrack and thats that as far as insurance companys see and rightly so, enter at own risk or do what many do and thats take out track insurance

Sinbad

iTrader: (1)

Maybe he should stick to Clios and not try his luck in a Hippo

If it's true then a Pro shouldn't be in a Novice Group but sadly too many idiots going in the wrong class to try and look Billy Big Balls
We all know the risk of Track Days but if Jamsport are at fault in anyway due to poor driving then maybe as a Company you would sort it as a good will gesture.
They don't have to but it would be a better PR exercise than the one they've got at the moment ?

Most lads I know who track regular won't do Ford Fair because of poor driving standards.
Accidents do happen Driving like a prick isn't a accident

chunky3

iTrader: (1)

It should be no track insurance no track time.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

many more successful claims and it will be. no circuit can afford liability ending up on them. would only take one case where the court blames the circuit for letting a clear fucktard on track without insurance for them all to make that rule.

chunky3

iTrader: (1)

We cant sign a disclaimer/waiver and drive on the road with no insurance i dont see why on track should be any different.

Oranoco

I'm far from a Jamsport fan for my own reasons but was it one of their cars or a customers car. Can't really bash Jamsport until that's known. Unless it already is known

Sinbad

iTrader: (1)

Yes fair point bud, I just assumed it was when someone said Pro Driver.

gcfcos

I wouldn't want anyone with my company name splattered all over their car as it just takes one person to do something and everyone will think it's something to do with your company. I don't know whether it was a company driver or not, just saying if not I wouldn't be happy with my name on it. A little sticker saying prepared by xxxxx would suffice