liam-rst

iTrader: (1)

Hi all after a bit of advise really, as above I've been fined for failure to notify change of keeper and on top of that charged 2 months road tax even though I sent off the log book, I did cancel the direct debit for the tax and as far as I'm aware I fulfilled my obligations yet when I appealed to the dvla they say I supplied insufficient evidence that I posted the logbook, no where can I see does it say that I have to retain proof of postage and from what I've read on the internet the onus is on them to prove I didn't post it not me to prove that I did, I'm not tight and if I was at fault I would take it on the chin but I don't want to pay a fine for something I'm not guilty of, also as far as I'm aware they have no statutory power to issue fines as that must come from a magistrate, can anyone tell me if I'm on the right track with this,
Many thanks
Liam

Loomer

They tried the same with me, I told them where to go.
It doesn't say you need to use recorded post so as far as it goes you have done all you needed too.

My case got dropped once I told them a few facts, so don't give in

STeve

iTrader: (11)

your not alone as many have been caught out by this dvla failure fine over the years, in most cases the system will work but for whatever reason if the V5 fails to reach their office, theres not a lot you can do but appeal but if they don't accept your reasoning and reject it chances are you have to suck it up, for the sake of a extra 75p to record something its a safe practice to always send any official documents via that method as a minimum

Loomer

Safe practice or not it doesn't state you need to record them as being sent, so how do you know that the document didn't reach them? Or that they didn't loose it? You get no feedback to tell you they have received a document from you, all you can do is wait to see if a v5 turns up which can take weeks, all that time you are left guessing if it arrived or not.
They certainly can't prove it so have no chance of getting money out of you for it. In court it would get laughed out.

liam-rst

iTrader: (1)

Cheers mate thats what I thought, they are saying I should have called them if I hadn't received confirmation of change of keeper but I cant see where by law I'm under obligation to, I think the 2 months tax must be the period from when I sold the car to when it was re taxed

Loomer

I just wrote them a tasty letter stating practically what I said above and that I had legally done everything they had asked, and that if they would like to take matters further they should contact my solicitor with proof that I hadn't.

STeve

iTrader: (11)

It may not state it but you risk issues arising when posting anything official with no form of proof of postage or tracking, it may not be right but thats how things work nowadays

liam-rst

iTrader: (1)

I think id rather loose a days pay and take it to court and loose a days pay than be robbed,

Loomer

If it doesn't state it how can they fine you for not doing it?

They can't.

focusv8

It makes sense to do it online, you'll get a reference number, too late for the O.P tho'

https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle

Loomer

Just stick to your guns. They will back down. The Dvla are a bunch of muppets from my experiences and quite often loose documents.

They just hope people are mugs and instantly shit themselves and pay up.

look at it in the respect that you did post it, just as they instructed you to.
Legally you have done all they asked, and if they want to take it further it's up to them to prove otherwise.

liam-rst

iTrader: (1)

Well I've sent them another letter asking them to show me where by law I have to prove to them I sent the logbook off and as far as I can see I have fulfilled my legal obligation, I've also asked them to show me where by law that they are permitted to issue fines so we will have to see their response

stevieturbo

Ask them to provide evidence they did not receive it then. Same silly question !

Or to provide evidence that they didnt lose it after they received it.

slammedorion

I had a letter off Dvla on Saturday to say I hadn't Sorn'd my Orion
It gets taxed for 6 months, the cheeky cu!ts tried taking another 6 months off me so I cancelled direct debit and sorn'd it...
There saying I didn't, but I still have the confirmation email and a screen shot of conformation on my phone...
I've just posted the reply letter today with all my evidence, and told them in future to get their facts right before sending out threatening letters...
Also said I want postage refunding...
Incompetent wan!ers!!!
Their computer system is shocking!!!

stevieturbo

You should notify local media and politicians about the scams they're operating. It sounds like it is a deliberate and orchestrated scam going on !

fuzzy

ask them for sufficient evidence that you didn't post it.

slammedorion

My conformation



Also got the email

I've just checked it online and it says not taxed, but on my email it says its Sorn'd until I re tax it... So Bol!ocks to them I'll argue this one out for aslong as needed...
I Sorn'd it... I did my bit...

Why should we have to keep emails and picture proof just because there fuc!ing idiots!!!

stevieturbo

Tellin ya, contact the media about this, if there are a handful on here it's happened to, then there will be thousands or tens of thousands all over the country.

Clearly it is a deliberate scam and it needs to be publicised

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the Driver and Vehicle Licencing Agency are one company

the Late Licencing Penalty office are another company

even with a letter from the dvla stating that they are wrong, you really have to be a pian int he arse to get them off your back

they wanted to do me for not taxing a car i'd scraped 3 years earlier, and because i didn't have the letter stating it was done they were chasing me for late tax etc

"officially" they request that you need to contact them if you have not received a reply to any documentation you have sent to them after 4 weeks so that they can check the system and avoid any fines etc that can be lurking on the horizon

if you do this on line then a simple screen shot or copy of the confirmation email should stop any further harassment

having sent the paperwork off you should explain that you have fulfilled your obligation and you should not be held accountable for the post office losing the letter or their staff misplacing it

also, even if you have proof of postage or proof of delivery, they will claim that it doesn't count as it's not been inputed into the system and go back to their "4 weeks notification period" standard answer

xr_craig

iTrader: (2)

I had this happen to me too. They said it was my responsibility to chase it up as once they had posted their letter it was no longer their problem. I basically wrote to them stating that if their responsibilities for any documents stopped once the were in the postbox then so did mine. I never heard anything back.

muz

I had this a few years ago. They sent me a court summons saying owed them Ł120 for not only not informing them of a change of keeper but for also not paying the original Ł40 fine and ignoring 2 reminders. I genuinely had no fine first time, or any reminders. I sent them several letters claiming all the above. Stated,
* there's no obligation for me to send the logbook recorded. Just as they had not sent me and fines or warnings recorded.
* legally, the onus was on them to prove I didn't send it rather than on me to prove I did, which of course they couldn't possibly do. Much the same as they couldn't provide me with any proof they sent me a fine or subsequent warnings.
* they have a well documented poor internal mail system which has been proven to loose mail.
* my obligation to deliver them the letter ended as soon as I put the letter in the care of the Royal Mail and entrusted them to deliver it.
* what they were doing was essentially extortion via blackmail as they were trying to get revenue from me in the form of a fine for something which they were saying I didn't do, even though I had.
* their 4 week notification period has no standing in law as I'm not legally obliged to chase them up.
Tried everything. Send about 5-6 letters and emails not backing down.
They lowered the fine to the original Ł40 as a "goodwill gesture" I told them where to stick their fucking gesture and I would have my day in court and requested the court closest to me which is 0.5 miles from my work.
Court summons came through and as they could choose the court of their choice, not mine, they picked one an 80 mile round trip from where I live! So not only did I have to have a day unpaid from work to go, I had to pay about Ł20-30 in fuel just to get there and back then run the risk of having to pay the original fine as well if they sided with the DVLA, which I was told if it goes to court, 90% of the time they will side with the DVLA. So I gave in and paid the Ł40.
Even thinking about it now makes me fucking raging! They literally are the lowest, bottom feeding, lying pricks on the planet. Not only can they pull a fine out of thin air for an error on their part, but they can then make things so awkward for you that you are forced to pay it as it more expensive for you to have your day in court!

visa_broke

all these people doing what they are supposed to do yet getting fined etc and I know traders/breakers in the uk that don't do any of this and get away with it.

Oranoco

As soon as you stick it in the post box it is legally deemed as "served" and they must prove otherwise. I had a similar row with my district council over my old flat where they insisted I hadn't provided information. Big row and a shitty e-mail from me later the matter was dropped and an apology found its way to me.

They are fuckers and will try it on.

fuzzy

considering its well documented how bad the dvla is I don't understand why anyone wouldn't pay the pound to send it by recorded just for their own piece of mind. then you've no chance of becoming a target or having any of this grief.

stevieturbo

But as others have said, apparently they claim that proof they received it...doesnt actually mean they received it

You can't win.

Contact the media, clearly it is a deliberate scam as there is no way they could be so incompetent.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

because it's a waste of money, they simply say that just because you sent it doesn't mean they got it, or it may have gone to the wrong department, or lost in the internal mail, or anything

Hellraiser

I had same thing happen to me I sent logbook off and they didn't receive it, they wanted proof I posted it and I said to them I did what I'm supposed to do fill in logbook and send it to dvla if you did not receive it that's not my fault get onto royal mail. They then again asked for proof to which I said can you supply me with proof to say that I didn't post it! I had letter couple days later dropping charges. They state fill logbook in and return it, which many people do they can't fine people for royal mail losing it, or even Dvla themselves. We shouldn't have to send items recorded but now tbh I do as its not worth the hassle hope this helps

fuzzy

that's their problem then. as long as you've proof you sent it and its been signed for then theres not a lot they can do about it.

slammedorion

I've had a reply back off Dvla today...



They haven't refunded me postage though...

stevieturbo

And you should reply back that the action they need to take is a fucking apology for their incompetence.

Not a letter worded as if you're still in the wrong but they are wavering it.


Or better still...wait 4 weeks and ask them why they havent bothered to respond to your letter lol

doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

They CANNOT do shit, tell them too either fuck off or u want your day in court all you got too say is that you posted end of to call uou a liar is to slander theroyal mail (the queens mail) been to court 3x with dvla won every time and had costs paid too me! Theyre just bully boys trying to use fear to scare you!