VEEDUBBED

Guys, I'm in need of some urgent help here..
I've got the mispleasure of having to service an utter pos Hyundai accent 1.5 crdi turbo diesel heap. I've changed the fuel filter that has been there since '08.. Problem is, even after filling the new filter with fresh fuel, using the priming pump, the fukker won't start, there' no fuel coming out of the common rail pump (Bosch). Ok, maybe a small amount of air got in the lines but this is fukking ridiculous. Don't even think about taking off the feed union to the pump, total nitemare. I've got the injector lines cracks open and, afair, there should be very high pressure present, it's commonrsil so in excess of 1000Bar..
Nada, fuk all fuel comes out when cranking for minuets on end, enough to flatten 2 680Amp batterys..
Anyone got any ideas as to what the fuk is stopping the fuel getting to the injectors???
THANKS!!

studabear

Is the new filter decent quality? Any danger it could be dragging air in from the seal?

Tighten everything back up and see if you can find a place to get into the return side of the fuel lines and then use a vac pump or oil sucker to pull the diesel through. Once you get plenty coming through it should be ok, as the rail and injectors etc should all be full.

Good luck.

VEEDUBBED

Allrite stud,
The rail's full of fuel, no way you'll get the horrid fixing clips off the back of the pump's feed/return pipes, as i said before i'm dealing with possibly the worst pos ever to hit the roads.
I also thought about Mityvac'ing out the fuel, there's just no room and no way of attaching the pipes from the mityvac pump.
Why would a simple filter change cause this??
Is the Bosch commonrail pump kind of self priming?

stevieturbo

You've either done it wrong or damaged something in the process.

And fairly sure there are safeties in place that dont allow the engine to start if rail pressure isnt where it should be...and can even then prevent it making more pressure by dumping the excess.

Sure havent damaged something like rail pressure sensor etc ?

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

Is there a bleed screw on top of the pump?

VEEDUBBED

Japanparts filter, looks good quality. All sensors in place and un damaged, no need to touch any anyway.
Whilst turning on the ignition and cranking, trying to start the bitch, the check light goes out and stays out, whilst cranking.
It's not as if the whole 'effin engine was changed, just the bloody filter that was bled through its smal, curved pipe that has a snap-on cap AND through the bleed screw next to it. Filter is full of fuel from the tank and when you try and reprime it, the plunger just goes hard.
The only other thing changed was the complete steering coloum due to a faulty EPS sensor, very well known problem on these heaps.
One last thing, the battery has been disconected for 3/4 days, don't tell this bin on 4 wheels has the same issues as Rovers of old, when you took off the batt. you had to get the ecu reprogrammed..
I just can't fathom out why no fuel is not exiting the pump to the rail, as if the stop solonoid has failed and is stopping fuel flow, all the above work was done with the batt. disconnected.
I'm fukkin baffled..

london_chris

give it a sniff or carb cleaner in the inlet tract, see if by it partially running briefly makes a change to pressures

155lee

iTrader: (10)

Any use?
Guy mentions an o ring on a donut fuel heater giving trouble.
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/accent...di-accent.html

VEEDUBBED

Chris, good call mate, I'll try my local spares place and see if they might have a can of Holts cold start or something similar.
Lee, thanks, that was one of the first things I read about this shitheap, unfortunately in my case it didn't work..
The only thing I can think of is that maybe one of the nylon fuel feed pipes got pinched or damaged whilst I was manuvering all the gubbins whilst changing both leaking clutch
Pumps. Right, dismantle everything again..

stevieturbo

So has any fuel got pulled through the filter so it can start ?

If there is no lift pump in the tank, that could be the issue. The high pressure pumps dont really suck very well in order to prime the system

VEEDUBBED

Right, quick update.
I took everything off again and checked for kinked pipes, nothing. So I disconnected the feed from the filter to the common rail itself and primed using the primer on top of the filter, plenty of fuel comes out after 1 pump which means that the fuel has reached the filter from the fuel tank and there's no air in the feed line and the fuel has then gone through towards the rail but nothing comes out when cranking over. I'm baffled and in a load of shit if I can't shift this effin heap.
Right, what's next??
The unbelievable thing is that it only had a looong over due filter change, wtf caused this??

VEEDUBBED

The only thing that I can think of, and how the fuk it happened, god only knows, is that the internal lift pump, some how, broke. If it's the case, would it cause the above problem?

stevieturbo

Fill a small container and give the high pressure pump a simple gravity feed and see if it will run.

STAFFY OWNER

Do everyone a favour and torch it, one less piece of shit on the road.

london_chris

did you give it a sniff of carb cleaner?

give the tank a wallop whilst cranking with the palm of your hand.

VEEDUBBED

Another update..
Staffy, don't tempt me mate, seriously..
Sooo, i did as you suggested chris, dumped half a can of cold start into its guts, the pos started, only idling, but enough to see that all warning lights went out, especially the EPS orange light, i'm never doing a job like that again..
Anyway, low and behold, with the engine running there's NO FUKKIN FUEL COMING OUT OF THE PUMP, LINES OR INJECTOR UNIONS!!!
So now i follow stevie's advice and check out the intank fuel lift pump, i mean, what the fuk else is there to check?
Take out seat, remove ring, pull out the plastic housing after disconnecting the return, feed and electrical connector...and...low and behold...THERE IS NO FUKKING PICK UP PUMP IN THERE, all that's there is the fuel float and that's it.
I swear to god, i drive the pos into the garage, serviced it, changed the fukkin fuel filter, steering coloum and two clutch pumps, how the fuk did this car start and run for 170.000km without a lift pump i just don't know.
Another strange thing is that there are 4 wires present on the 'pump's connector,1 thick black wire, 1 thick green and the two thinner wires which i presume are for the float/gauge. I've put a test light across both thick wires with the ignition on, there both dead.
There's also no fuse present in the fuse box or any relays.
I'm at my whits end chaps but i'm also totally fukked aswell as i can't move it either.
Anything else spring to mind, i'm all ears.

stevieturbo

At no point did I say to delve into the tank.

I said get a small reservoir and give the engine high pressure pump a simple gravity feed of fuel ignoring the filter and car tank.

It could be as simple as a funnel and bit of pipe, or get a big syringe and push fuel into it.

tony66

iTrader: (7)

tow start it with an injector union cracked

wouldnt recommend it on on a transit but...wait is it an auto?

VEEDUBBED

There's no way of getting the little fekkers off the back of the pump to attach any kind of pipe or funnel, the unions are crammed in next to brackets and the dipstick and various sensors are also blocking the way, add to this nitemare the high pressure pump's inlet unions that are almost impossible to remove without special tools..
No way of tow starting the car, it's in an underground garage mate, with a steep ramp, just to top things off.
The shitheap's a 5 speed manual.
How the hell does the engine's high pressure pump suck up fuel from the tank when there's no bloody intank pump present????

burnzy

Does the tank side of the fuel lines have a flow and return? As you could syphon from the tank return and draw the fuel all the way through and back again.

Edit: atleast you'd have fuel to the filter if anything else, might have a better chance of bleeding the HP side then.

They could be like the Delphi pumps where they have a hi and low pressure pump built into them.

VEEDUBBED

Yes, both. The top of the float level housing looks exactly like any other hi press. Fuel pump set up, untill you lift it out and see that it aint there..
The high press. Pump on the engine is made by Bosch and the heap was made in '07.
Once again, i can't fathom out how all this air supposedly got in, i didn't even break open the fuel lines or remove the filter head, there's no need.
I'll try doing as you suggested tomorrow, same problem with regarding those unique bloody fittings that this kjnt manufacturer uses, no easy way of attaching anything onto them or the moulded plastic fuel lines.

jamie's

You say you changed the column,
Did the old 1 have the read coil for the chipped key on it?
Or does it have elec power sterring?
Either of these being changed could result in non staring afterwards,
Could have nothing to do with the fuel filter,
usualy find that after its started and ran off easy start it pulls enough diesel thru to start itself afterwards and gets the air out
Or did you have it running in between changing the column and doing the filter change?

VEEDUBBED

Awful electric power steering, try doing the entire coloum and steering wheel by yourself..
Just got off the blower with a mate, apparently the main pump is possibly worn and doesn't have the strength to pull up the fuel so, i have to attach an electric fuel pump onto the main feed off the filter and force fuel into the hp pump.
I don't like the sound of that much, the hp pump wasn't designed to take force fed fuel from the inlet or no?

1980blakey

iTrader: (1)

Dont you have any diagnostic tools to check pressure at the rail? that will tell you if hp pump is o.k or not. I wouldnt be putting an electric pump in like that.

IanC

Has it got a return line to the tank? If it has can you not take the return off in the bay and put your thumb over it while a mate is turning the car over works every time for me when I have to start a diesel up that's had a filter change and when it starts put the return back on quick might not work for you but it always dose the trick for me pal

gcfcos

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure common rails don't have returns

IanC

Possibly pal im not clued up on diesels tbh every diesel I've come across has had one upto now but I've not had much dealings with diesels

VEEDUBBED

Yep, def. Both feed and return lines present, one line has sn orange cap on its connector whilst thre other (feed) has a grey one. Ian, i'll try the finger on return line test, sounds a good, simple solution. Failing that i'll break up an old Daewoo matiz fuel pump and adapt the fittings to accept an external low press fuel pump off a moped and try to feed the pump.
I'm hesitant to do this for fear of damaging the main hp pump, then i really am screwed.

stevieturbo

Fuck sake just do the test I said, it will only take 10 minutes.

Make life easy for yourself instead of all this bullshit.

VEEDUBBED

Mate, either you haven't read my replys or i speak Arabic, You CAN'T FIT ANY KIND OF ATTACHMENT onto the line, there's no fukkin room to get anywhere near the unions. What am i meant to do, melt and reform my own fukkin fingers? And since when is all 'this' bullshit? Might be to you but i can assure you it aint to me. If you want to come across like this, please refrain from answering.

gcfcos

One other option if u have breakdown cover is tow it a couple of miles from home and phone the breakdown company, they normally have some good test equipment. Worse comes to worse they'll just tow u back home

IanC

It takes a few cranks to get going then keep the car running and put the return line back it's messy but it always seems to work for me my uncle told me to try it he's a diesel fitter he said the fuel will just keep ru turning to the tank so if you block the return it will force bleed the pump

VEEDUBBED

Impossible yo get the feker out of the garage, it's below ground, has a steep ramp going down and, to actually get the car in, there are concrete coloums to avoid..tow truck can't get down there. Can't steer the bastid 'cos the electric steering don't work so pushing it out is a no no. No choice but to slam 4 go jacks on it and mauvre it out.
Ian, i'm going to try what you suggest now, we'll see the outcome.
I forgot to mention that whilst cranking the engine over with a fully charged 680amp battery, diesel fuel is returning to the tank through the return line.

stevieturbo

If you're incapable of adapting and applying some common sense, have the car towed to a mechanic who can.

VEEDUBBED

Another update on this saga,
Disconected the feed and return lines from the float/fuel pickup and connected up a small 3 bar petrol pump to the feed line from the tank, no problem here, fuel flows up to the filter head, goes through the new filter, lines, onto the pump and through it, i can hear the fuel flow back to the tank whilst passing through the pump, distinct noise is unmistakable.
Nothing comes out of the common rail, even tried running the car with the 3 bar constantly on, nothing exits the fuel rail.
I can't believe that there's air in there, not with fuel being sent back to the tank, as designed to. I even changed the fuel filter over, back to the old 8 year version that the car drove in with, exactly the same.
The car is now on 4 wheels with all 4 injector feed pipes removed and i've been spinning over the engine on the starter, over and over, nothing.
What's next?

tones61

most of the diesels we work on have common rail,we found if the sensor does not sense enough pressure in rail,the ecu will not turn on injectors,
the last newish mondeo we renewed filter on was an ahole to start,
got it running on a constant spray of easystart whilst cracking/bleeding inj,
hope this helps dude,

jamie's

Have you Had it running since you changed the column?
I think you need somelive data readings to see fuel pressure
The ecu wont start switching the injectors untill theres aprox 300bar at the rail

VEEDUBBED

Thanks guys.
No, unfortunatly i haven't got it to run off its own fuel, only using a spray product similuer to Holts cold start. I can assure that there's zero pressure in the rail, so if there's no pressure within the rail, even though it's full of derv, there's not a hope in hell of the fukker starting. How the hell do i get the pump to supply the nessesary 300 Bar??
Tomorrow i'll carry on with the cold start, only got half a can left though and no Halfords here in Rome..

stevieturbo

So you've tested the rail pressure sensor and confirmed there is no pressure ?

It sounds like fucking about with the fuel system is a waste of time and a huge red herring.

Get someone with proper diagnostic gear to check the immobiliser function isnt stopping it from starting and also to read any data relating to the CR system

VEEDUBBED

Managed to get lent a Genden obd2 diagnostic reader, low and behold, no faults present and no historical codes either. EML lights goes out as usual with ignition on, i fukkin give up.
I'm at the end here and am so fukkun fed up, the utter frustration is unbelivable.