Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

I have a 50mm Pace Intercooler (500 style). Anyone have experience of what these would be effective upto power wise?

At donington national day on track, found the ACTs rising towards 50 degrees
I'm going to fabricate some deflection shields to ensure air at the bottom of the cooler goes through it rather than round the side and the bottom, which should help.

Car also started to overheat, not sure if this is a result of the high ACTs impacting on engine heat generation, or not great air flow through the cooler/radiator.

I'm running t34 with 2 bar boost, I did notice that on 1.7 bar boost ACTs were about 5degrees lower but still very high.

Anyone else used this cooler ?
Cheers

Caddyshack

I have got the Pro Alloy one and Mark Shead had similar problems with mine when mapping it, pretty much same temps.


His solution is a pro-alloy cooler.


I think the deflection shields are a good idea.

Mark Shead

I think you got it wrong there I did not recommend a pro alloy one.
By today's standards a tube and fin core unless it's monster size it's crap In a Cossie.
To get the best heat transfer/you have to use a garret bar and plate core.

Mark

Caddyshack

Sorry Mark, I meant Spec R.


I hope to get a bar and plate core on mine soon.

Sierrasideways

iTrader: (1)

Is the airtec 100mm top feed cooler a very efficient cooler due to the air flow through the top and the design? That's what I was told anyway...

Caddyshack

What core do they use? I couldn't find it on their site. It does look very like the Spec R design to me in terms of layout but I know very little about coolers.

Sierrasideways

iTrader: (1)

Mate I couldn't go any further as I probably know less, only going by what I was told Plus they're less than half the price. Wonder is it a case of you get what you pay for...someone else can shed more light I'd say

Caddyshack

The design looks the same as spec R which I know is very good, I guess it could be cheaper if using the older spec core.


I have asked someone in the know and will report back.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The core is the key thing, its no good the rest looking the same if its not got the correct core.

Caddyshack

Thanks, Do you know what the Airtec core is...or could you tell by looking?

ajamesc

This is always a funny argument with cars running a lot of power that need efficient charge cooling. Coolers that do that which have been tested on certain cars with large power outputs are expensive for a reason. The parts there made of to do the job they do!
Other company's may make one that looks the same but it's key element is not the same so will not cool as well when you need it too.

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

How did you actually measure the ACT? Did you put a thermocouple into the intercooler outlet. Or can you read out the standard ACT sensor? I also run a T34 with an Airtec RS500 style cooler and took it to the track 2 weeks ago, now I'm wondering what ACT's I would see...

Mark Shead

They use what we call the Chinese copy core look at thickness of tubes for flow and the fins per inch for cooling google it also.
It does not flow and cool like a garret due to these diff.

Mark

Caddyshack

Thanks Mark, that was the sort of info I was after.


I do want to get something sorted for mine pretty soon. I actually drove it last weekend and it is very near being used a lot.

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

I have ACT sensor in the inlet plenum, one from Mike Rainbird I got several years ago.

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

My Pace cooler has the oval tubes, which I assumed would be beneficial for air flow through the unit.

The airtec ones are flat faced rectangular tubes, which I wouldn't have expected to be as efficient at allowing smooth airflow through the cooler.

Does 50mm cooler thickness sound too little, as many of the coolers nowadays are much thicker, is that greater depth required? :

Caddyshack

Oval would seem better for flow. I think from reading this thread that a good 50mm core may be better than a poor 100mm core but only monitoring the temps can confirm

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

Going to work on the air deflection plates first, to ensure all flow goes through the cooler and rad.

Caddyshack

I think that's a good idea. I have been thinking of sikaflex or tiger sealing an inner tube to the cooler and then riveting that to the chassis / body to feed air and seal the air flow without transmitting vibrations. This would prove the job before to welding the deflectors to the cooler with smaller rubber joints to keep the vibration down.

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

I'm looking into ally plate that I'll bolt to the front cross member to hold it in position.
In essence similar deflection plates that are welded to some of the dearer intercoolers, but bolted to the car.

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

Dave,


I have the Spec r cooler on mine and with me hooning it around track the most I seen was 30 degrees and 87 degrees water temps.


I did soaked heat up when standing whilst off track, 53 degrees however soon came down whilst on track.

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

Dave
That's what I would expected.
Sounds like yours is working well

Rod-Tarry

I purchased the first cores for Spec-R. The garrett core chosen was the most efficient at a £650 cost point. If £2000 was the cost point far more efficient cores can be found. Companies have copied the shape & Top entry but then use a far less efficient core, thats a cheaper way but not as efficient.
We saw negative degrees on mine on initial acceleration with +8 on full bore.
Using a RS500 cooler the Injection would be on after a few seconds at full bore to keep temps in the 30's.
If you are not putting your car against the clock then you wont know the Power you are losing because of an inefficient Intercooler. Just ask Mark about TOTB1 if you want to know how bad it can get when you max out your cooler efficiency .

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

Rod
I'm sure the charge temps were costing me 10 sec per lap
That's what I'm claiming anyway

What many people I guess look for is the best efficiency/cost balance.
As much as I'd like the £900 spec-r cooler, I cannot justify spending that if there is a more cost effective solution.
After all I'm not pushing boundaries at 400bhp and people have been managing those levels for years.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

What Dave touched on is a valid point the recovery rate of the cooler is very important

Rod-Tarry

That's why you buy an efficient core. Its money or compromise as it is with just about anything in life.

Sonic Boom

iTrader: (11)

Out of interest Rod have you got a link to the £2000 cores what industry are they used in?

Rich

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

Agreed, that's the cooling efficiency as soon as your on the move and have good air flow through the unit

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

I'm assuming the 500s as seen at RSOC Donington day used the std 500 cooler, and would be heavily loaded with heat ?
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e7...ec6cb5fb11.jpg

BigD.

I tead a study on colours of intercoolers and satin black light coat seemed to assist the cooling the best, by quite a few degrees so if youve a nice shiney one paint it!

Mark Shead

Yep that's why the old school engines work as low comp has more of a ideal ign angle when the intake goes up it doesn't fall of the cliff like a high comp one.
Get the intake temp right on a high comp engine and it is better in every way than a low comp.

Mark

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

Would that also apply to a black powder coated item as some coolers are advertised.
Didn't know if the powder coat would act as an insulator to the heat transfer.

DazF

iTrader: (1)

If you want to know the differance in recovery rates of the airtec core against the Spec-R garret one then search for the Fast Ford focus rs intercooler shoot out.

turbotrev

Quite interesting...

Cheers Paul

testastretta999

I think the high end cores are the Marston ones

Rod-Tarry

Indeed they make high end cores but at a price. Ive said before make it a 2k intercooler & not a 900 cost point & then more efficient cores can be found.

JonnyBravo

Tbh although I fully agree that the Garrett core is the better option we have used a Chinese 300x700x100 on the front of a race car, approx 600hp @ 2 bar boost and Max IAT logged was mid 20's in a 15 minute race. A Airtec top fed unit would undoubtably suit most people's needs on a cossy but for those chasing big hp an extra £500 may be a worthwhile spend.
How the units are stacked and fed does appear to have a huge effect on cooling too, especially water temps so it's definitely worth panelling out the void to the cooler and behind it so the air can only pass through in one direction.

testastretta999

Dig real deep into your pockets and use a secan core, looking into £1000's for these.

Think aeromotive industry and gt3 race cars use this gear.

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

ridgey seriously ditch the pace. No deflector will help you.

I have nothing infront of my cooler no bumper pure air flow and on sunday was seeing 65+degree chasing the touring cars. The only reason I could keep it that low was due to the water mist jets on the front of cooler. I have a genuine 500 cooler I couldnt fit in time. But this will be best for the value for money factor for my own car. Like you if I could lose £900 in a cooler I would but sadly I cant. A pace 100 quid cooler has way hit its limits.

For a non race car just to abuse on track days it will do.