Mk4 Escort RWD - where to start?
26-09-2014, 09:50 AM
#1
Advanced PassionFord User
Thread Starter
Mk4 Escort RWD - where to start?
I've got a 1300 Bonus sitting in the garden, had it 2 years while I decide what to do with it, save money etc. I've been considering converting it to rwd, but really don't have a clue. Who are the best people to speak to regarding this, best method of doing it, I need some pointers to cost etc, haven't got a clue where to start looking or who to speak to.
26-09-2014, 12:32 PM
#2
What engine do you want to use?
What's your budget?
Do you have a time frame in mind?
For example me and a friend converted mine to RWD cosworth power in 11 months and spent about £15k and I started with a running saff Cossie!
Let me know if your serious about having the fabrication done and I'll ask my friend if he'd be interested in doing it for a 3rd time. (Both cars are in fast ford mag so you know there are quality builds)
What's your budget?
Do you have a time frame in mind?
For example me and a friend converted mine to RWD cosworth power in 11 months and spent about £15k and I started with a running saff Cossie!
Let me know if your serious about having the fabrication done and I'll ask my friend if he'd be interested in doing it for a 3rd time. (Both cars are in fast ford mag so you know there are quality builds)
maybe get that ring lol 
02-10-2014, 06:14 PM
#6
10K+ Poster!!
Unless you dothe fabrication and mechanics yourself you are going to spend a fortune. Much better off buying a finished or part finished car. You would save a packet by buying something like the Cossie puma on here.
If I were doing it I would strip the shell and weld in a cage to keep the integrity then cut out the tranny tunnel and weld in a RWD setup. Easiest is probably the Cossie stuff and get the whole rear subframe in there but need to decide on engine and spec. Big power needs to be more modern unless you have a 10k engine budget IMO. Vag 1.8t is cheap to get 400 bhp and there are plenty of gearbox adapters.
Budget 3000 for paint work, prob similar if you don't fabricate yourself, 1500 plus for engine management then mapping and loom on top, custom zorst is 500 to 1500, diff, seats, cage, brakes as wheels donor engine...labour....Done right would be easy 20k and more.
If I were doing it I would strip the shell and weld in a cage to keep the integrity then cut out the tranny tunnel and weld in a RWD setup. Easiest is probably the Cossie stuff and get the whole rear subframe in there but need to decide on engine and spec. Big power needs to be more modern unless you have a 10k engine budget IMO. Vag 1.8t is cheap to get 400 bhp and there are plenty of gearbox adapters.
Budget 3000 for paint work, prob similar if you don't fabricate yourself, 1500 plus for engine management then mapping and loom on top, custom zorst is 500 to 1500, diff, seats, cage, brakes as wheels donor engine...labour....Done right would be easy 20k and more.
02-10-2014, 06:25 PM
#7
Unless you dothe fabrication and mechanics yourself you are going to spend a fortune. Much better off buying a finished or part finished car. You would save a packet by buying something like the Cossie puma on here.
If I were doing it I would strip the shell and weld in a cage to keep the integrity then cut out the tranny tunnel and weld in a RWD setup. Easiest is probably the Cossie stuff and get the whole rear subframe in there but need to decide on engine and spec. Big power needs to be more modern unless you have a 10k engine budget IMO. Vag 1.8t is cheap to get 400 bhp and there are plenty of gearbox adapters.
Budget 3000 for paint work, prob similar if you don't fabricate yourself, 1500 plus for engine management then mapping and loom on top, custom zorst is 500 to 1500, diff, seats, cage, brakes as wheels donor engine...labour....Done right would be easy 20k and more.
If I were doing it I would strip the shell and weld in a cage to keep the integrity then cut out the tranny tunnel and weld in a RWD setup. Easiest is probably the Cossie stuff and get the whole rear subframe in there but need to decide on engine and spec. Big power needs to be more modern unless you have a 10k engine budget IMO. Vag 1.8t is cheap to get 400 bhp and there are plenty of gearbox adapters.
Budget 3000 for paint work, prob similar if you don't fabricate yourself, 1500 plus for engine management then mapping and loom on top, custom zorst is 500 to 1500, diff, seats, cage, brakes as wheels donor engine...labour....Done right would be easy 20k and more.
And imo that is conservative too
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02-10-2014, 09:48 PM
#8
Unless you dothe fabrication and mechanics yourself you are going to spend a fortune. Much better off buying a finished or part finished car. You would save a packet by buying something like the Cossie puma on here.
If I were doing it I would strip the shell and weld in a cage to keep the integrity then cut out the tranny tunnel and weld in a RWD setup. Easiest is probably the Cossie stuff and get the whole rear subframe in there but need to decide on engine and spec. Big power needs to be more modern unless you have a 10k engine budget IMO. Vag 1.8t is cheap to get 400 bhp and there are plenty of gearbox adapters.
Budget 3000 for paint work, prob similar if you don't fabricate yourself, 1500 plus for engine management then mapping and loom on top, custom zorst is 500 to 1500, diff, seats, cage, brakes as wheels donor engine...labour....Done right would be easy 20k and more.
If I were doing it I would strip the shell and weld in a cage to keep the integrity then cut out the tranny tunnel and weld in a RWD setup. Easiest is probably the Cossie stuff and get the whole rear subframe in there but need to decide on engine and spec. Big power needs to be more modern unless you have a 10k engine budget IMO. Vag 1.8t is cheap to get 400 bhp and there are plenty of gearbox adapters.
Budget 3000 for paint work, prob similar if you don't fabricate yourself, 1500 plus for engine management then mapping and loom on top, custom zorst is 500 to 1500, diff, seats, cage, brakes as wheels donor engine...labour....Done right would be easy 20k and more.
In comparison I did 1200 paint, 800 fab work, engine box loom etc from my saff 7000, suspension 600, brakes 1000, fuel system 1000, 600 roof, 600 bonnet, the rest of the money was made up in all the bits you don't think about (sheet metal, welding gas, tools, consumables, labour costs blah blah
05-10-2014, 09:15 AM
#10
10K+ Poster!!
In comparison I did 1200 paint, 800 fab work, engine box loom etc from my saff 7000, suspension 600, brakes 1000, fuel system 1000, 600 roof, 600 bonnet, the rest of the money was made up in all the bits you don't think about (sheet metal, welding gas, tools, consumables, labour costs blah blah
I think if I was building anything again I would start with a base that would be worth the money at the end I.e. a mk1 or mk2 escort would be worth so much more than a mk3 or 4 when finished. I know we don't do it for value but it is nice to recover some of it if we are forced to sell. That or break them up.
05-10-2014, 11:49 AM
#11
That was a well controlled budget and it still adds up.
I think if I was building anything again I would start with a base that would be worth the money at the end I.e. a mk1 or mk2 escort would be worth so much more than a mk3 or 4 when finished. I know we don't do it for value but it is nice to recover some of it if we are forced to sell. That or break them up.
I think if I was building anything again I would start with a base that would be worth the money at the end I.e. a mk1 or mk2 escort would be worth so much more than a mk3 or 4 when finished. I know we don't do it for value but it is nice to recover some of it if we are forced to sell. That or break them up.
This is it with a good cossie commanding good money these days all the cars like escorts and focus's converted are becoming worthless 2 mates of mine has sold there focus cosworths which were converted very well and in very good running order but only managed to do 6k each now 3-4 years ago they would of been double that
06-10-2014, 06:55 AM
#12
What you talking about jay. How can a taxi be worth lots of money and the same car but in a mk3/4 is worth less. Your chatting rubbish.
When have you seen a mk 3/4 cosworth sell for less than a saf.
Unless its a total shambles built by someone who dont know what they are doing with loads of bodges. Even at that point they make good money.
When have you seen a mk 3/4 cosworth sell for less than a saf.
Unless its a total shambles built by someone who dont know what they are doing with loads of bodges. Even at that point they make good money.
06-10-2014, 07:28 AM
#14
............
06-10-2014, 08:15 AM
#15
.
You need to decide what you want from the car when it's finished mate, Track only, track and road use, or just full road use, what's the end look, full sleeper, ERST look or full on Gartrac type arches etc, what motor you want, what power etc as this can change a budget massively.
I'm building my own and set myself a target of 3 years due to being very busy, that was 4 years ago
but the only thing I budgeted for was the paint work, everything else was if it needs it it'll have it.
If you want cossie power then a full running saff is the way to go but then at this point in time they fetch good money so there's a massive chunk of your budget gone straight away.
If your going to have to pay some one to do the fabrication then honestly I'd just buy one already done.
Mine is just a full road use so had to think about it differently than most as I want it to look like the original ESRT S2 that I started with inside and out, full interior, standard (looking) exterior apart from the wheels and lack of sunroof etc, but even then a 6 point cage was a must just for the strength side of things.
Have a good look and read at how others have done there's first before making a decision.
I can see where Jay is coming from about the price of them if sold on, but I really do think the value depends on the car, for me (if I was buying a ready built one) a full on track car would be worth less as I wouldn't want to have 6-8 or 10k tied up it that type of car, but then on the other hand I wouldn't mind 10k sat in the garage if it was a full road car like Cutches S1 (or mine when finished) as it is a more usable could be used every day if I wanted type of car.
I honestly couldn't say how much I have spent so far, but that said every single thing on the car has been done by me, I've not paid out anything on fabrication work etc just parts and I havn't gone mad, just sensible.
Billy's quote of 15k is a good ball park figure but expect it to be more.
Ginger
.
You need to decide what you want from the car when it's finished mate, Track only, track and road use, or just full road use, what's the end look, full sleeper, ERST look or full on Gartrac type arches etc, what motor you want, what power etc as this can change a budget massively.
I'm building my own and set myself a target of 3 years due to being very busy, that was 4 years ago
but the only thing I budgeted for was the paint work, everything else was if it needs it it'll have it. If you want cossie power then a full running saff is the way to go but then at this point in time they fetch good money so there's a massive chunk of your budget gone straight away.
If your going to have to pay some one to do the fabrication then honestly I'd just buy one already done.
Mine is just a full road use so had to think about it differently than most as I want it to look like the original ESRT S2 that I started with inside and out, full interior, standard (looking) exterior apart from the wheels and lack of sunroof etc, but even then a 6 point cage was a must just for the strength side of things.
Have a good look and read at how others have done there's first before making a decision.
I can see where Jay is coming from about the price of them if sold on, but I really do think the value depends on the car, for me (if I was buying a ready built one) a full on track car would be worth less as I wouldn't want to have 6-8 or 10k tied up it that type of car, but then on the other hand I wouldn't mind 10k sat in the garage if it was a full road car like Cutches S1 (or mine when finished) as it is a more usable could be used every day if I wanted type of car.
I honestly couldn't say how much I have spent so far, but that said every single thing on the car has been done by me, I've not paid out anything on fabrication work etc just parts and I havn't gone mad, just sensible.
Billy's quote of 15k is a good ball park figure but expect it to be more.
Ginger
.
06-10-2014, 09:19 AM
#16
What you talking about jay. How can a taxi be worth lots of money and the same car but in a mk3/4 is worth less. Your chatting rubbish.
When have you seen a mk 3/4 cosworth sell for less than a saf.
Unless its a total shambles built by someone who dont know what they are doing with loads of bodges. Even at that point they make good money.
When have you seen a mk 3/4 cosworth sell for less than a saf.
Unless its a total shambles built by someone who dont know what they are doing with loads of bodges. Even at that point they make good money.
06-10-2014, 09:50 AM
#18
.
I can see where Jay is coming from about the price of them if sold on, but I really do think the value depends on the car, for me (if I was buying a ready built one) a full on track car would be worth less as I wouldn't want to have 6-8 or 10k tied up it that type of car, but then on the other hand I wouldn't mind 10k sat in the garage if it was a full road car like Cutches S1 (or mine when finished) as it is a more usable could be used every day if I wanted type of car.
Ginger
.
I can see where Jay is coming from about the price of them if sold on, but I really do think the value depends on the car, for me (if I was buying a ready built one) a full on track car would be worth less as I wouldn't want to have 6-8 or 10k tied up it that type of car, but then on the other hand I wouldn't mind 10k sat in the garage if it was a full road car like Cutches S1 (or mine when finished) as it is a more usable could be used every day if I wanted type of car.
Ginger
.
06-10-2014, 11:22 AM
#19
Well if someone comes a knocks on my door with £12k it's theirs! Lol!
If not I'll keep it and enjoy it.
That's the way I'm looking at it. I didn't build it to make money or sell on etc, I just wanted to build a car that, to me, was a dream car and something I can enjoy as a toy.
Everytime I go out in it I come back with a big grin and shaking hands lol!
If not I'll keep it and enjoy it.
That's the way I'm looking at it. I didn't build it to make money or sell on etc, I just wanted to build a car that, to me, was a dream car and something I can enjoy as a toy.
Everytime I go out in it I come back with a big grin and shaking hands lol!
06-10-2014, 12:05 PM
#20
Well if someone comes a knocks on my door with £12k it's theirs! Lol!
If not I'll keep it and enjoy it.
That's the way I'm looking at it. I didn't build it to make money or sell on etc, I just wanted to build a car that, to me, was a dream car and something I can enjoy as a toy.
Everytime I go out in it I come back with a big grin and shaking hands lol!
If not I'll keep it and enjoy it.
That's the way I'm looking at it. I didn't build it to make money or sell on etc, I just wanted to build a car that, to me, was a dream car and something I can enjoy as a toy.
Everytime I go out in it I come back with a big grin and shaking hands lol!
06-10-2014, 03:49 PM
#22
PassionFord Post Whore!!
I'm just about to do a 4x4 mk3 fiesta ,I've bought a full running car and basically plan on sitting my shell onto the floor pan of the donor car difference in wheel base is only 18mm . I'm not expecting it to be as easy as it sounds lol but I'm sure I'll work around what ever I come across and this way I get to keep management,brakes,suspension basically everything .donor car cost me £2k and my fiesta owes me nothing so I can't see it costing me the earth but I'm pretty handy at fabrication.
06-10-2014, 04:04 PM
#23
I'm just about to do a 4x4 mk3 fiesta ,I've bought a full running car and basically plan on sitting my shell onto the floor pan of the donor car difference in wheel base is only 18mm . I'm not expecting it to be as easy as it sounds lol but I'm sure I'll work around what ever I come across and this way I get to keep management,brakes,suspension basically everything .donor car cost me £2k and my fiesta owes me nothing so I can't see it costing me the earth but I'm pretty handy at fabrication.
06-10-2014, 04:12 PM
#24
PassionFord Post Whore!!
07-10-2014, 08:51 AM
#26
After building quite a few of these converted cars for myself and customers over the last 15 years. I can honestly say that not a single one has sold for less than what it costs to build. Lets face it jay your talking about some random mates focus that you say sold cheap. But who wants a mk1 focus at the best of times let alone cosworth converted.
If it was a nicer car to start with like xr3 or s1 etc then it might of be more worthy.
As for comments on sierra floor pans or even the rear beam... depending on how much you want to spend you can sort anything out. Wrc rear beam setup is not that much anymore now there are so many copys available.
Floor pan you can make your own. Not that I see any issue with the sierra one. If your that bothered then 6 link the rear using mk1/2 setup.
There will always be someone who want a cosworth converted car as long as you choose the right shell to start from.
If it was a nicer car to start with like xr3 or s1 etc then it might of be more worthy.
As for comments on sierra floor pans or even the rear beam... depending on how much you want to spend you can sort anything out. Wrc rear beam setup is not that much anymore now there are so many copys available.
Floor pan you can make your own. Not that I see any issue with the sierra one. If your that bothered then 6 link the rear using mk1/2 setup.
There will always be someone who want a cosworth converted car as long as you choose the right shell to start from.
07-10-2014, 07:24 PM
#28
Wahay!! I've lost my Virginity!!
07-10-2014, 07:54 PM
#30
Wahay!! I've lost my Virginity!!
I have a pile of bits and a master plan lol. two cars to build, an S1 (minty & polished )and a XR3 to be RWD (owned this XR3 20 years)
So with plenty of time spent building toy cars for peeps with dough, I've picked up a few tricks.
For the effort to go WRC rear while building the shell it's a far better proposition IMHO.
Gets the weight locked in tight and low down.
That said a proper axle set up like like the old Mk2 can work so well the more modern stuff is not strictly needed on this sort of build IMHO... but I'm still doing it WRC cos I'm a F'in badass
I know how to build a chassis that works with the MK3/4 I've been watching plenty at the shows & trackdays and bothering owners for years at meets
So with plenty of time spent building toy cars for peeps with dough, I've picked up a few tricks.
For the effort to go WRC rear while building the shell it's a far better proposition IMHO.
Gets the weight locked in tight and low down.
That said a proper axle set up like like the old Mk2 can work so well the more modern stuff is not strictly needed on this sort of build IMHO... but I'm still doing it WRC cos I'm a F'in badass
I know how to build a chassis that works with the MK3/4 I've been watching plenty at the shows & trackdays and bothering owners for years at meets
07-10-2014, 07:55 PM
#31
Testing the future
no, but i've had enough sierra's to know that they have a shit rear axle whatever you fit it into - what's your point?
07-10-2014, 10:06 PM
#33
On my rwd mk4 I have a gse rear beam alhough heavy it does balance out the weight of the car. My best friends rwd mk4 is basically a gartrac version but now yb with 6 link rear beam and quaife etc. The cost of this and the fab work is a decent amount on its own. Compare the two and I would choose mine. Much better unless your on gravel or forrest track.
I would like to fit the wrc setup to mine but Its not value for money in my case with my setup perfect as is.
Only benift I see is weight which im lacking already at rear.
I would like to fit the wrc setup to mine but Its not value for money in my case with my setup perfect as is.
Only benift I see is weight which im lacking already at rear.
