Adam Graham

Hello everyone, I'm pretty new to this and this is my first post lol I've a 2L twincam Sierra and have just bought a 24v BOA engine out of a Granada Cosworth, and I'm just wondering if there is much in the way of tuning this engine?

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated

Thanks...

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

These are the people you need to speak to. They are cossie V6 specialist.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...BDVacXervt0ncA

saph in dorset

I certainaly wouldnt reccomend the people in that link.

You can fairly easily get 350bhp out of them and then with a rebuild for forged pistons retc 450/500.
To get this you do need to turbo the engine either single turbo, twin turbo supercharged. All are effective depending on what you want.

Alternatively if you want to stay na you can get around 230ish by changing injectors vauxhall v6 ones, changing cams to bob cams, i have changed my management to ensure fuelling is correct which transformed the car from the standard ecu. You can also change the plenum chamber to give better flow. Lots you can do depending how far you want to go.

Have a look on http://www.fordpower.org.uk/index.php there is lots and lots of information on there.

saph in dorset

Alternatively feel free to pm me if you want to chat more.

doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

Stay away from Top Boss and Boost Performance either give Ade500 a pm or speak to Specialised Engines or Xr4i centre Horndon on Hill a call!!
Best mod is to ditch Egr run cossie straight through exhaust welded to boa down pipes bob exhaust cam with chains

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

Change the cams for BOB ones and fit a less restrictive exhaust without the cats. I also have a Tweecer, with which I can reprogram the standard Ford ECU. The ignition timing can be optimized using this, as Ford took quite a lot of ignition advance out to limit the torque made by the engine.

lee2cossies

iTrader: (2)

Just squirt some gas through it, did this with my xr4i 24v, just a Holley single fogger kit with a 75hp jet, increased power from 196 to 248hp and reqlly livens it up.

Adam Graham

Thanks for the replies everyone, don't really want to be going down the turbo route, not yet anyway lol, heard that bob cams are worth while putting in..

I have a full stainless steel mongoose exhaust system for it, not do much in the way of tuning it but hoping it should make it sound well

Anything else worth while putting in that isn't overly expensive? I've heard that putting in a good tubular manifold is good for them, but don't know anyone that has actually done it

doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

The manifolds and plenum that comes with the boa are very good as standard units but with the exhaust side make sure you keep the lambdas.

Adam Graham

What exactly do the Vauxhall v6 injectors do for the boa? Was looking at them and there cheap enough got by the looks of it...

ptgladstone

I have got some performance parts lying around, bob cams,vectra injectors, pressure reg best thing to go is in the standard management and go emerald

ptgladstone

I have got tubular manifolds on mine and it's a lot more responsive. But they are an expensive mod

Adam Graham

How much would you be talking for a good tubular manifold? I've been trying to look for tubular manifolds, but can't find any, did you have to get one specially made or did you buy one that was pre-made?

gjh

From what I've read on here I'd give specialised engines a wide birth too! wasn't much good to be said about them last time the name was brought up

ptgladstone

I bought mine from topboss for 450, they are not the best fitting thing around.

doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

Give gary (crazycage) a pm he will make you one im sure or there is a guy on ebay who makes them his mate is on here i will have a look for his name on here and post it in here

doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

His name on here is bj928

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Whats wrong with top boss then.

Jimboxr4x4

They did my 24v conversion on my old xr4x4 about ten years ago. Quite cheap but it never really ran right. Didn't think much of the owner either, Fitz I think his name was.

HaggisTurbo

Would love to try this conversion one day and get some blowers attached to it, I can imagine it would be a pretty lively car esp in a 2wd Sierra

Adam Graham

Heard people talking about power boost valves, which makes the fuel pressure fully adjustable, as well as a few other things as taking away flat spots when accelerating, and giving a better air/fuel mixture, has anyone any experience of these or know what their like?

ptgladstone

Do you mean a adjustable fuel regulator? Whining the fuel up 3.5 bar is meant to help although I don't any experience with this. If you want more power best changing the ecu to emerald unit , I have a brand new harness for a emerald ecu to 24v cosworth best investment you will
ever make

Adam Graham

Aye meant to say in other words it's an adjustable fuel regulator, what's so good about an aftermarket ECU? I obviously know the purpose of an original car ECU, but what's the benefit of putting an aftermarket ECU in? Any help about aftermarket ECU's would be helpful as I have no knowledge on the subject

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

The ignition timing on the standard Ford ECU is pretty tame. It was supposedly done to save the autobox that was fitted as standard and for insurance reasons as well.

ptgladstone

Just better tuning ability and better fuel consumption,if you want more power there is only so much you can do with a standard ecu. When I put my emerald on my 24v with decat pipes and a filter I got 242 bhp and returned about about and addition 5 mile per gallon. Aftermarket ecu can then be used for an application whether na or boosted . It's a good investment

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

I use a Tweecer on the standard ECU. You can use it to adjust both the fueling and spark. But you can also reconfigure the ECU to a different size MAF or fuel injectors. Basically you can change all settings in the original ECU, the only downside is that not all functions on the 24v BOA ECU are known yet for the Tweecer.

ptgladstone

Intresting post

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

If you want to know more on the Tweecer there is some info on the last page of my Sapph 24v project thread. Even more info is on Fordpower. http://www.fordpower.org.uk/index.php/topic,8637.0.html

Damocos

What ever route you go will all depend on how many pennies you spend and who is doing it N/A will never give you massive gains but even simple mods will make a difference. BOA running BOB cams and the Vectra injectors always seem to be a winner and can be done easily for a few hundred quid. Typically this will give you a modest 220bhp max. BOB is a slightly more powerful unit but to run it on the cheap will mean a BOA ecu and harness which again will only achieve at best, 220bhp There are some that have had slightly more from these basic mods but in reality this is all you can hope for.

Ecu upgrade will definitely see more gains and with some decent manifolds will see around 240ish......... After that there is the option of throttle bodies but now we are well into the thousands ŁŁŁŁŁŁ There are a few 24v's with throttles and I suppose with the right management they could probably get to around 300bhp at a push??? but don't quote me on that.

Finally there is boost Now this will cost at least 2k if doing yourself and that includes making ya own manifolds and sourcing s/h parts to keep costs down or if you pay someone to do it, easily 5-6k I would say. Now this will get you well over 300bhp and the grin factor is what the doctor ordered. Not cheap but very individual and the noise of a boosted V6 is fantastic. I opted for turbo on mine as it was never fast enough as a N/A and tbh, apart from breaking gearboxes and driveshaft's its the best thing I ever did I'd say I ploughed 3k into mine with the right bits and doing all the work myself to get it where it is now but its a choice I took to do it correct. Its not everyone's cup of tea as the engine does have its restrictions with a poor top end rev range and its an old design and a tad heavy but again this can be overcome with some more mods deeper pockets......

If you have the basics already, engine, harness and gearbox...... Stick it in then see what you think. You will get a grin factor straight away coming from a 2.0 twinky to this.

Damo.

Adam Graham

Must save up and buy an Emerald ECU at some point, was reading up about them and definitely seem to be worth while investment, not the cheapest thing bought though

Adam Graham

Do the vectors injectors actually work? I've heard people say their a great job and then others say that they were no use at all

Definitely must invest in an ECU at some point though

Throttle bodies won't be an option for a while anyway, way too expensive for me, I would love to stick a twin turbo in, but as you say that is also very very expensive...

The manifold option and the bob cams will hopefully be got soon, where is a good place to look about manifolds? Seen you can buy them on Boost Performance, but don't know if they would be a good job, I'm sure they would be fine but wouldn't want to take the chance and then not be happy with them, I also seen you can buy them from Top Boss Performance but lots of people have a bad opinion of Top Boss which puts me off a bit

ptgladstone

I've got a full system I am looking to get rid of emerald ecu ( slightly used), wiring harness(New) and fully map map , bought for my other project that will never happen

trishakotelchuk

Not really worth the hassle mate, keep it standard with a descent exhaust, filter and etc. I think you should be hitting around the 230bhp with just a couple of simple mods, 300bhp is about max without changing the inlet/plenum as they are restricted. Install a set of bob cam and a set of Vauxhall injectors. I think the boa is a better plant slight down side to boa around the cranks and the bob block will be stronger.

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

im planning on running a 24v boa in the saph - will be n/a for now but have a choice of ford ecu or Omex 600.

Make sure you get a proper gearbox for it too - if you have the twin cam box you need the 4x4 box to make into a hybrid - i have a 4x4 box for sale and spare twin cam box too

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

A lot of the figures over 220bhp that company's give are bull shit sadly. I have a BOB'd car in at the moment for mapping with pretty unrestricted exhausts so will let people know what power it makes when done.

The last BOB made 212BHP at 6500rpm on 95 octane fuel, I ran timing right upto the knock limit in places with perfect AFR so struggle to believe that people get 240-250 with out head work, plenum work or cams. With a revlimit of 7000RPM and better fuel it would probably have made a little more but certainly no where close to 230.

To put this into perspective, the only standard BOB I have seen making that kind of power (232BHP) on an aftermarket management system was a total lie. The 'tuning' company involved messed with the weather station in the dyno so the dyno corrected the power as if the car was at much higher altitude then photoshoped the calibration window on the graphs!!!! Re run on the same dyno several months later the car made just over 190bhp and a little over 200 with some more timing.

The impressive thing about the engine is not actually the power it makes, but the ridiculous AFR you can run without impacting upon driveability. This engine will idle with an afr of 16:1 like stock and cruise at 17:1 which is crazy. Obviously I run with an AFR of 14.7 but it really shows how good the combustion chamber is.

Add throttle bodies or a turbo and the story changes....

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

I have been changing the spark advance on my BOA using a Tweecer and did some testing on the 1/4" mile with speed and timing. The funny thing is I didn't see ANY difference in stock timing and advanced timing. So I was under the impression the Tweecer didn't work correctly. After that I tested the 1/4" mile again but with the CPS moved about 5 degrees to give more advance. But again, I didn't see any performance improvement over standard!

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Despite what many people will tell you, Ford were not silly. There was no point at all to run conservative timing in terms of power, economy, emissions. If anything they would have done the opposite on later Scorpios as their knock/misfire detection on the BOB was incredibly advanced.

You may see gains with a little more fuel and advance, they try to run as close to stoichiometric as possible so going to an AFR of 12.5 ish on power with 2-3degs probably would still mean no det but a little more power. I suspect this is why people see gains when they install the vauxhall injectors.

Best way to tell is to do a dyno run at standard, then add 2-4 degs over the entire map and do another power run listening for det. If torque remains the same then Ford were already close to or at MBT, most modern combustion chamber designs mean the MBT is not knock limited. Running a little richer at the expense of emissions, and raising the rev limit if your still making good torque at standard limit will yield you the most noticeable gains on a standard engine.

ptgladstone

This is the power graph of my 24v cosworth on throttle bodies, bob cams 330cc injectors,stainless steel manifold & exhaust. Couldnt get any more withwith higher compression and head work. Still fun at this