do fords have dpf issues....?
#1
14000+ post superhero
Thread Starter
do fords have dpf issues....?
my works insignia was going into limp home mode, eventually im told (after various garages filling me with doom and gloom stories about needing a new ecu, turbo, dpf etc etc)the dpf is known to clog up with soot and need a good blast to regen and clear itself. apparently im not driving it hard enough..... obviously 120 down the m74 and m6 from Glasgow to Liverpool is taking it to easy!
ill need to remember that the next time I get stopped speeding! "the mechanic told me I had to officer or my car would blow up"
ill need to remember that the next time I get stopped speeding! "the mechanic told me I had to officer or my car would blow up"
#2
PassionFord Post Whore!!
If it's your works then don't worry.
You don't have to drive fast to regen it. Stick to 70 and use a lower gear so the revs are higher.
Mines on 97k and fine so far. I give it some
On the motorway now and then and the exhaust gets too hot to touch when I'm home parked up.
Don't get no smoke or anything out the back of mine.
You don't have to drive fast to regen it. Stick to 70 and use a lower gear so the revs are higher.
Mines on 97k and fine so far. I give it some
On the motorway now and then and the exhaust gets too hot to touch when I'm home parked up.
Don't get no smoke or anything out the back of mine.
#3
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Most (well most of the ones I see) manufacturers have DPF issues, mostly by the sort of people fannying around trying to get 59.67mpg on every journey.
What many owners don't realise, (or are never told by the salesmen) that each car with a DPF will have a set of conditions it has to meet before it will do the 'regeneration', for example BMWs have issues with not carrying out regen as they have thermostat issues, for arguments sake the coolant never reaches the 75? degs required for regen to take place,then after a number of attempts to do the regen it will log a fault and in worse cases go into limp mode.
The other problem with this is during regen the engine oil gets diluted with diesel as it can bypass the piston rings, I've seen some Mondeos with the oil level an inch or more over full on the dipstick!
Then of course you get faults logged and EML lights on for oil dilution, and the customer doesn't understand why he needs ''another'' oil and filter change between services.
Euro 5 Transit 2.2 currently have an issue with oil pump failure, the first thing that shits itself is the turbo, which in turn dumps it's oil into the DPF to the point of stopping the engine as the exhaust is completely blocked.
Recently looked at an Smax/Galaxy with 2.0 TDCI, customer had been told by Mot place he needs a new DPF as it had EML on with a DPF efficiency code, he came to the dealer asking to have a DPF fitted, luckily for him, was a simple fault. The hoses from the DPF to the DPFE sensor were split!!
That said though, I've not actually replaced many DPFs on Fords, only on the Transits that have shit themselves..
A lot of the times there are other issues causing DPF faults.
End of ramble.
What many owners don't realise, (or are never told by the salesmen) that each car with a DPF will have a set of conditions it has to meet before it will do the 'regeneration', for example BMWs have issues with not carrying out regen as they have thermostat issues, for arguments sake the coolant never reaches the 75? degs required for regen to take place,then after a number of attempts to do the regen it will log a fault and in worse cases go into limp mode.
The other problem with this is during regen the engine oil gets diluted with diesel as it can bypass the piston rings, I've seen some Mondeos with the oil level an inch or more over full on the dipstick!
Then of course you get faults logged and EML lights on for oil dilution, and the customer doesn't understand why he needs ''another'' oil and filter change between services.
Euro 5 Transit 2.2 currently have an issue with oil pump failure, the first thing that shits itself is the turbo, which in turn dumps it's oil into the DPF to the point of stopping the engine as the exhaust is completely blocked.
Recently looked at an Smax/Galaxy with 2.0 TDCI, customer had been told by Mot place he needs a new DPF as it had EML on with a DPF efficiency code, he came to the dealer asking to have a DPF fitted, luckily for him, was a simple fault. The hoses from the DPF to the DPFE sensor were split!!
That said though, I've not actually replaced many DPFs on Fords, only on the Transits that have shit themselves..
A lot of the times there are other issues causing DPF faults.
End of ramble.
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#10
14000+ post superhero
Thread Starter
gone are the days of the old guy at the lolcal garage listening to the engine noise or working on a hunch after hearing the symptoms.
now its a snotty nosed kid plugging a fault diagnostic reader in and taking what it says on the screen as gospel. "its the egr...ker ching -Ł350...its the dpf....ker ching -Ł1000....its the ecu -Ł1400....ker ching...."no you fanny , its a split hose on the turbo"
now its a snotty nosed kid plugging a fault diagnostic reader in and taking what it says on the screen as gospel. "its the egr...ker ching -Ł350...its the dpf....ker ching -Ł1000....its the ecu -Ł1400....ker ching...."no you fanny , its a split hose on the turbo"
#12
14000+ post superhero
Thread Starter
can you kick start a regen manually or is it all computer controlled? its pretty poor that driving sensibly on modern cars can cost you thousands in repairs.luckily I don't drive sensibly.
Last edited by fuzzy; 24-07-2014 at 09:38 PM.
#13
PassionFord Post Whore!!
It's all ECU controlled, the dealer (or anyone with the right diagnostic tool) can carry out a static (forced) regen, providing the vehicle hasn't got any faults and meets the required conditions to carry it out.
Some vehicles if the DPF warning light is on need to be driven in a certain manner until that light goes off.
Some vehicles if the DPF warning light is on need to be driven in a certain manner until that light goes off.
#14
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Some bedtime reading on DPFs (VAG content)
VAG PARTICULATE FILTERS
Courtesy of David Bodily Volkswagen Technical Support Specialist
Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)
Detailed below is important information outlining the function and features of the Diesel Particulate filter which all members of your team need to be aware of.
Diesel particulate filters are becoming more commonplace on diesel engines, particularly sizes 2.0L upwards. This is in order to reduce the exhaust emissions as required by European legislation.
The prime reason for a DPF is to reduce particulate matter entering the atmosphere. Particulate matter is found in the form of soot, which is produced during diesel combustion. The DPF traps most of the soot which would normally travel down the exhaust and into the atmosphere. The DPF can hold a certain amount of soot, but not a huge quantity and therefore it needs to go through a process called ‘regeneration’ in order to clear the soot loading. When the soot goes through a ‘regeneration’ process it will be converted to a much smaller amount of ash. The ash is non-removable. There are two types of ‘regeneration’, passive and active.
During long motorway journeys, passive regeneration will occur. This needs no intervention from the engine control unit. Due to the raised exhaust temperatures on a long journey (temperatures between 350 and 500°C), the procedure occurs slowly and continuously across the catalytic-coated (with platinum) DPF. The catalytic-coated DPF is situated close to the Engine, therefore the exhaust gas temperature is high enough (500°C) to ignite the soot particles. Due to this soot is burned-off and is converted into a smaller amount of ash.
Active ‘regeneration’ is when the ECU intervenes when the soot loading in the DPF is calculated to be 45%. The procedure lasts for about 5 – 10 minutes. Specific measures are taken by the ECU to raise the engine exhaust temperature to above 600°C, these include switching off the exhaust gas recirculation and increasing the fuel injection period to include a small injection after the main injection. The soot particles are oxidised at this temperature.
The ECU will trigger a regeneration process, if for some reason this is aborted, ie. customer slows down, stops etc, the process will be resumed when regeneration conditions are once again met, above 60km/h (38mph). This will continue for 15 minutes.
If after 2 attempts of 15 minutes, a successful regeneration has not been possible, the loading will increase. At 50% soot loading, the ECU will continue to maintain maximum exhaust temperatures of 600°C to 650°C to cause a regeneration process. The system will try to run a regeneration process for 15 minutes. If unsuccessful, the system will repeat this process for a further 15 minutes, if still unsuccessful, the DPF light on the driver display panel will then be lit.
The owners handbook states, the DPF symbol lights up to indicate that the diesel particulate filter has become obstructed with soot due to frequent short trips. When the warning lamp comes on, the driver should drive at a constant speed of at least 60 km/h for about 10 minutes. As a result of the increase in temperature the soot in the filter will be burned off. If the DPF symbol does not go out, the driver should contact an authorised Volkswagen repairer and have the fault rectified.
At 55% soot loading the DPF light is lit on driver display panel. At this point the customer should follow the advice in the handbook. If they ignore this information and continue driving the vehicle until the soot loading reaches 75% without successful regeneration, additional warning lamps will light up. At this point the customer will also be complaining of lack of power, etc.
At 75%, regeneration is still possible with the use of the VAS tester. Only when the loading is above 95%, is it necessary to replace the DPF unit.
Operating Status System Response
45% DPF Load Level 1
Normal Regeneration
50% DPF Load Level 2
Regeneration at maximum exhaust temperatures
55% DPF Load DPF lamp
Regeneration from 60 km/h onwards
("See operating manual")
75% DPF Load DPF, SYS and MI lamp
Torque limitation, EGR deactivation,
Regeneration via VAG tester only
95% DPF Load Replace the DPF Unit
The Warranty department has confirmed that if there is no fault on the vehicle and DPF regeneration has been unsuccessful due to the customers driving style and the customers failure to comply with the instructions in the handbook, DPF replacement will not be paid for by warranty.
Common causes for complaint
• Frequent short journeys – Regeneration conditions are not met.
Not recommended for sale in the Channel Islands and inner city driving.
• Customers who continue to drive the vehicle with DPF light on – Continued
driving with the DPF light on and without successful regeneration results in
excessive soot loading of the DPF, to a point where it is above 95% loaded.
At this point regeneration is not an option and replacement of the DPF is
necessary.
• Fault 18434 particle filter bank 1 malfunction – Common fault code. This does
not only relate to the DPF itself, but the entire exhaust gas handling system. This
can be caused by defective temperature sensors, pressure sensors, additive
system components (if applicable), poor connections, wiring issues, etc.
Important Information
• Before diagnosing a problem vehicle or attempting to perform an emergency
regeneration, it is important to obtain a full diagnostic log and read out relevant
measured value blocks. These MVB’s contain important information on the
condition of the DPF system and are essential in diagnosing the fault. When the
DPF light is illuminated, it does not necessarily mean that the DPF requires
regeneration. For further advice, please contact Technical Support with the
information from the diagnostic log and MVB data.
• If a problem vehicle arrives with the DPF light, the engine management light and
the emissions light on. If during your diagnosis and reading of relevant MVB’s,
you find that the soot loading exceeds 75% (but is still below 95%), an
emergency regeneration procedure must be performed with the VAS tester.
Further to this, the customer needs to be educated. They need to understand
why the lights have appeared on the dash panel. Their attention needs to be
brought to the owners handbook instructions, so that they are aware of what the
DPF light means and what to do when it appears. This should prevent
unnecessary repeat visits for regeneration purposes.
I have also found that as the car gets older 30K+ miles, you will notice that the regeneration takes place more often.
ALWAYS, check your oil before any long journey, as DPF regeneration can use a fair bit of oil.
Some questions and answers that may help;
Question: The glow plug symbol is flashing. Why? What should be done?
Answer: The DPF regeneration has not been completed during normal
driving and now DPF has reached its maximum saturation at which it can
still be regenerated. The limit value depends on variant and Model Year,
but is in the range of 105% - 125%.Possible causes for this are:
a.) Frequent short distance journeys, i.e. high soot loading while at
the same time regeneration of the DPF does not take place because the
conditions necessary were not fulfilled.
b.) Frequent
interrupted regenerations, i.e. the engine was switched off during
regeneration. Applies to short journey drivers who have at least
fulfilled the conditions for triggering regeneration. If the glow plug
light flashes, the vehicle
a.) Engine running since start for
longer than 2 minutes.
b.) Calculated saturation higher than 80%.
c.) Coolant temperature over 70°C for at least 2 minutes.
d.) No
DPF-relevant faults stored in system.
e.) A defined vehicle speed
threshold must have been exceeded (e.g. for >80% loading, 100 km/h)
Question: Under what conditions is regeneration
interrupted/ended once it has started?
Answer: Normally when
regeneration has been successfully completed, or:
a.) After a
maximum regeneration time (20 - 25 min.).
b.) If the engine is
switched off or has stalled.
c.) If the engine is left idling for a
long time (5 - 10 min.).
d.) If 1000°C is detected by the exhaust
temperature sensor.
e.) If during regeneration, a fault is detected
on the components relevant for combustion (injection/intake system).
If
a regeneration is interrupted once started but before it has been 50%
completed, the glow plug lamp flashes on the next engine start (cold or
hot) and regeneration begins again once the operating conditions (see 3)
have been fulfilled.
Question: How long does complete
regeneration take? a.) In the most favourable case? b.) In the least
favourable case?
Answer: a.) Under constant conditions, i.e.
the exhaust temperature necessary for regeneration always lies above the
required value, for example during motorway/cross-country driving, the
average regeneration time is 10 minutes.
b.) Vehicle
conditions such as long down-hill descents, frequent driving in the
low-load range (city driving, idling) allow the exhaust temperature to
fall. If the conditions for triggering regeneration were fulfilled, the
active regeneration time can be extended up to 25 minutes (depending on
engine type). If complete regeneration is not possible within this
period, the regeneration will be interrupted.
Question:
How does regeneration affect the oil life?
Answer: On each
regeneration or attempted regeneration, a certain diesel fuel amount is
injected into the engine oil which reduces the oil life. If the "INSP"
light in the instrument cluster comes on, the engine oil is exhausted
and must be changed. Failure to do so could damage the engine.
Courtesy of David Bodily Volkswagen Technical Support Specialist
Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)
Detailed below is important information outlining the function and features of the Diesel Particulate filter which all members of your team need to be aware of.
Diesel particulate filters are becoming more commonplace on diesel engines, particularly sizes 2.0L upwards. This is in order to reduce the exhaust emissions as required by European legislation.
The prime reason for a DPF is to reduce particulate matter entering the atmosphere. Particulate matter is found in the form of soot, which is produced during diesel combustion. The DPF traps most of the soot which would normally travel down the exhaust and into the atmosphere. The DPF can hold a certain amount of soot, but not a huge quantity and therefore it needs to go through a process called ‘regeneration’ in order to clear the soot loading. When the soot goes through a ‘regeneration’ process it will be converted to a much smaller amount of ash. The ash is non-removable. There are two types of ‘regeneration’, passive and active.
During long motorway journeys, passive regeneration will occur. This needs no intervention from the engine control unit. Due to the raised exhaust temperatures on a long journey (temperatures between 350 and 500°C), the procedure occurs slowly and continuously across the catalytic-coated (with platinum) DPF. The catalytic-coated DPF is situated close to the Engine, therefore the exhaust gas temperature is high enough (500°C) to ignite the soot particles. Due to this soot is burned-off and is converted into a smaller amount of ash.
Active ‘regeneration’ is when the ECU intervenes when the soot loading in the DPF is calculated to be 45%. The procedure lasts for about 5 – 10 minutes. Specific measures are taken by the ECU to raise the engine exhaust temperature to above 600°C, these include switching off the exhaust gas recirculation and increasing the fuel injection period to include a small injection after the main injection. The soot particles are oxidised at this temperature.
The ECU will trigger a regeneration process, if for some reason this is aborted, ie. customer slows down, stops etc, the process will be resumed when regeneration conditions are once again met, above 60km/h (38mph). This will continue for 15 minutes.
If after 2 attempts of 15 minutes, a successful regeneration has not been possible, the loading will increase. At 50% soot loading, the ECU will continue to maintain maximum exhaust temperatures of 600°C to 650°C to cause a regeneration process. The system will try to run a regeneration process for 15 minutes. If unsuccessful, the system will repeat this process for a further 15 minutes, if still unsuccessful, the DPF light on the driver display panel will then be lit.
The owners handbook states, the DPF symbol lights up to indicate that the diesel particulate filter has become obstructed with soot due to frequent short trips. When the warning lamp comes on, the driver should drive at a constant speed of at least 60 km/h for about 10 minutes. As a result of the increase in temperature the soot in the filter will be burned off. If the DPF symbol does not go out, the driver should contact an authorised Volkswagen repairer and have the fault rectified.
At 55% soot loading the DPF light is lit on driver display panel. At this point the customer should follow the advice in the handbook. If they ignore this information and continue driving the vehicle until the soot loading reaches 75% without successful regeneration, additional warning lamps will light up. At this point the customer will also be complaining of lack of power, etc.
At 75%, regeneration is still possible with the use of the VAS tester. Only when the loading is above 95%, is it necessary to replace the DPF unit.
Operating Status System Response
45% DPF Load Level 1
Normal Regeneration
50% DPF Load Level 2
Regeneration at maximum exhaust temperatures
55% DPF Load DPF lamp
Regeneration from 60 km/h onwards
("See operating manual")
75% DPF Load DPF, SYS and MI lamp
Torque limitation, EGR deactivation,
Regeneration via VAG tester only
95% DPF Load Replace the DPF Unit
The Warranty department has confirmed that if there is no fault on the vehicle and DPF regeneration has been unsuccessful due to the customers driving style and the customers failure to comply with the instructions in the handbook, DPF replacement will not be paid for by warranty.
Common causes for complaint
• Frequent short journeys – Regeneration conditions are not met.
Not recommended for sale in the Channel Islands and inner city driving.
• Customers who continue to drive the vehicle with DPF light on – Continued
driving with the DPF light on and without successful regeneration results in
excessive soot loading of the DPF, to a point where it is above 95% loaded.
At this point regeneration is not an option and replacement of the DPF is
necessary.
• Fault 18434 particle filter bank 1 malfunction – Common fault code. This does
not only relate to the DPF itself, but the entire exhaust gas handling system. This
can be caused by defective temperature sensors, pressure sensors, additive
system components (if applicable), poor connections, wiring issues, etc.
Important Information
• Before diagnosing a problem vehicle or attempting to perform an emergency
regeneration, it is important to obtain a full diagnostic log and read out relevant
measured value blocks. These MVB’s contain important information on the
condition of the DPF system and are essential in diagnosing the fault. When the
DPF light is illuminated, it does not necessarily mean that the DPF requires
regeneration. For further advice, please contact Technical Support with the
information from the diagnostic log and MVB data.
• If a problem vehicle arrives with the DPF light, the engine management light and
the emissions light on. If during your diagnosis and reading of relevant MVB’s,
you find that the soot loading exceeds 75% (but is still below 95%), an
emergency regeneration procedure must be performed with the VAS tester.
Further to this, the customer needs to be educated. They need to understand
why the lights have appeared on the dash panel. Their attention needs to be
brought to the owners handbook instructions, so that they are aware of what the
DPF light means and what to do when it appears. This should prevent
unnecessary repeat visits for regeneration purposes.
I have also found that as the car gets older 30K+ miles, you will notice that the regeneration takes place more often.
ALWAYS, check your oil before any long journey, as DPF regeneration can use a fair bit of oil.
Some questions and answers that may help;
Question: The glow plug symbol is flashing. Why? What should be done?
Answer: The DPF regeneration has not been completed during normal
driving and now DPF has reached its maximum saturation at which it can
still be regenerated. The limit value depends on variant and Model Year,
but is in the range of 105% - 125%.Possible causes for this are:
a.) Frequent short distance journeys, i.e. high soot loading while at
the same time regeneration of the DPF does not take place because the
conditions necessary were not fulfilled.
b.) Frequent
interrupted regenerations, i.e. the engine was switched off during
regeneration. Applies to short journey drivers who have at least
fulfilled the conditions for triggering regeneration. If the glow plug
light flashes, the vehicle
a.) Engine running since start for
longer than 2 minutes.
b.) Calculated saturation higher than 80%.
c.) Coolant temperature over 70°C for at least 2 minutes.
d.) No
DPF-relevant faults stored in system.
e.) A defined vehicle speed
threshold must have been exceeded (e.g. for >80% loading, 100 km/h)
Question: Under what conditions is regeneration
interrupted/ended once it has started?
Answer: Normally when
regeneration has been successfully completed, or:
a.) After a
maximum regeneration time (20 - 25 min.).
b.) If the engine is
switched off or has stalled.
c.) If the engine is left idling for a
long time (5 - 10 min.).
d.) If 1000°C is detected by the exhaust
temperature sensor.
e.) If during regeneration, a fault is detected
on the components relevant for combustion (injection/intake system).
If
a regeneration is interrupted once started but before it has been 50%
completed, the glow plug lamp flashes on the next engine start (cold or
hot) and regeneration begins again once the operating conditions (see 3)
have been fulfilled.
Question: How long does complete
regeneration take? a.) In the most favourable case? b.) In the least
favourable case?
Answer: a.) Under constant conditions, i.e.
the exhaust temperature necessary for regeneration always lies above the
required value, for example during motorway/cross-country driving, the
average regeneration time is 10 minutes.
b.) Vehicle
conditions such as long down-hill descents, frequent driving in the
low-load range (city driving, idling) allow the exhaust temperature to
fall. If the conditions for triggering regeneration were fulfilled, the
active regeneration time can be extended up to 25 minutes (depending on
engine type). If complete regeneration is not possible within this
period, the regeneration will be interrupted.
Question:
How does regeneration affect the oil life?
Answer: On each
regeneration or attempted regeneration, a certain diesel fuel amount is
injected into the engine oil which reduces the oil life. If the "INSP"
light in the instrument cluster comes on, the engine oil is exhausted
and must be changed. Failure to do so could damage the engine.
#15
PassionFord Post Whore!!
#16
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
I'm so happy I got mine removed.
#17
Advanced PassionFord User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bridgend, South Wales
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No DPF and you can blank off the EGR.
They do have issues though. Quite a few about with small end failure but this is down to a lack of oil changes and people trying to bumble around everywhere at 1200rpm.
There's also the fact they have two timing belts to replace and they will cost you around Ł700!
#18
Advanced PassionFord User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bridgend, South Wales
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So you end up with worse fuel economy and the same expensive repair bills you get from diesels!
Oh and the Euro 6 direct injection petrol motors will have to have a DPF too!
#19
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
#21
PassionFord Post Whore!!
#22
PassionFord Regular
I map out DPF filters and EGRs for a living. The amount me and the team do is unreal, you will find most of the 1.6 dervs are the worst ford wise but no make is safe we remap near every make due to the issues guys
#24
PassionFord Regular
Yes it has come in the the MOT, but we dont remove the DPF when you look at it by eye we remove the inners and remap the regen prosses out the system so all the pressure sensors etc still work. We work mainly at garages like MOT stations lol. The law is only as good as the people who enforce it. Its not a clean system as the DPF make the particles so small our lungs can filter less with the DPF than it can without, there is environment groups who are trying to stop them, soon the next euro law is out which is 2 x EGR and 2 x DPF ! GOOD LUCK PEOPLE !
#25
PassionFord Post Whore!!
But it's a visual test. If the car was manufactured with a DPF it has to be fitted with one at MOT time.
There is no way (yet) for a car to be tested emission wise if it has a DPF fitted.
Same for the CAT as well now on dervs. Visual check only. As dervs can pass emissions without a CAT or DPF.
#26
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Its a known fact due to the amount of nox gases and that those lovely diesels give us cancer manufactures are planning on moving away from diesels now the hybrids are coming forward
#28
Glennvestite
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Darlington county durham
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Is there any proof of this fact. Im just iinterested. The garage I work in can stink badly sometimes do to people reving there engines at work and filling the workshop with the fumes.
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