Borg Warner EFR Build Quality Shocking!
12-07-2014, 03:42 PM
#42
PassionFord Post Whore!!
BW stopped the investment casting production and continued the production with regular sand casting to lower the cost of each unit. Thats why the surface finish is terrible compared to the older ones. All later model BWs are supplied with these sand casted turbine housings.
Remember that Garrett turbine housings are cast iron, vs BW cast stainless steel = MUCH higher pouring temps and MUCH harder to get a nice finish. Trust me, I have done some work in a foundary.
The compressor cover is slightly different as the 7670 has a larger compressor than the 7064...
My 7670 is the same as yours. It is, however, much better finished inside than outside.
Remember that Garrett turbine housings are cast iron, vs BW cast stainless steel = MUCH higher pouring temps and MUCH harder to get a nice finish. Trust me, I have done some work in a foundary.
The compressor cover is slightly different as the 7670 has a larger compressor than the 7064...
My 7670 is the same as yours. It is, however, much better finished inside than outside.
Mark
12-07-2014, 03:59 PM
#44
That turbine housing is definitely as supplied with most EFR's ?...again because of that integral wastegate. Compressor cover doesnt look much different ?
Were both turbos from the same supplier ?
What about their serial nos/ID tags ? Are they both genuine BW tags ?
So is your new one mostly a case of your turbo supplier supplying their own turbine housing to suit the external gate ?
Were both turbos from the same supplier ?
What about their serial nos/ID tags ? Are they both genuine BW tags ?
So is your new one mostly a case of your turbo supplier supplying their own turbine housing to suit the external gate ?
Rich
12-07-2014, 04:10 PM
#45
PassionFord Post Whore!!
,There are other tricks to making these turbo's work at there best.
Mark
12-07-2014, 04:13 PM
#46
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Mark
12-07-2014, 04:18 PM
#49
PassionFord Post Whore!!
12-07-2014, 04:21 PM
#50
Advanced PassionFord User
PF at its best, lets stifle any technical discussion, unless the expert kindly giving us a little bit of free info from the goodness of his heart decides to pay for the pleasure
12-07-2014, 05:45 PM
#52
Does it have a tag like this ?
The only BW's Ive had are a couple types of Airwerks S300' range. The 4 Ive had all had the BW logo on the turbine housing and they had tags like the picture below indicating genuine BW.
Castings certainly werent beautiful...but nowhere near as bad as yours. Mine had cheap cast housings though.
Not sure why that thread didnt open...try link again
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-eng...iled-pics.html
12-07-2014, 08:55 PM
#53
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Somerset
Posts: 533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks. Space isn't too much of an issue but the 7670 is bit longer than the 3071 it'll be replacing. I'll see what's around when it comes to ordering.
13-07-2014, 11:16 AM
#54
No idea what that number refers to ?
Does it have a tag like this ?
The only BW's Ive had are a couple types of Airwerks S300' range. The 4 Ive had all had the BW logo on the turbine housing and they had tags like the picture below indicating genuine BW.
Castings certainly werent beautiful...but nowhere near as bad as yours. Mine had cheap cast housings though.
Not sure why that thread didnt open...try link again
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-eng...iled-pics.html
Does it have a tag like this ?
The only BW's Ive had are a couple types of Airwerks S300' range. The 4 Ive had all had the BW logo on the turbine housing and they had tags like the picture below indicating genuine BW.
Castings certainly werent beautiful...but nowhere near as bad as yours. Mine had cheap cast housings though.
Not sure why that thread didnt open...try link again
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-eng...iled-pics.html
I've got one of those tags too I'll take a photo of it Monday when i'm back down Dyno Torque.
Think I'm gonna take the Compressor Housing and Turbine housing off and have a butchers inside and see what the quality is like I just hope it's nothing like the outside.
Rich
13-07-2014, 12:01 PM
#56
PassionFord Post Whore!!
The link works now mate, the 7670 in that link is beautifuly finished.
I've got one of those tags too I'll take a photo of it Monday when i'm back down Dyno Torque.
Think I'm gonna take the Compressor Housing and Turbine housing off and have a butchers inside and see what the quality is like I just hope it's nothing like the outside.
Rich
I've got one of those tags too I'll take a photo of it Monday when i'm back down Dyno Torque.
Think I'm gonna take the Compressor Housing and Turbine housing off and have a butchers inside and see what the quality is like I just hope it's nothing like the outside.
Rich
Mark
13-07-2014, 12:11 PM
#57
Yes mate the GTX3076 is coming off it made 590bhp and 578 ft/lb of torque
Hopefully this is the case and the internals are of the same high quality you'd expect, depending on the out come of the discussion with the supplier on Monday (see if they have a tidier one?)
If not I may just as well clean it up best I can myself.
Rich
If not I may just as well clean it up best I can myself.
Rich
15-07-2014, 06:35 PM
#61
PassionFord Post Whore!!
In terms of reliability these have been outstanding so I can forgive them if some don't look pretty.
Mark
16-07-2014, 05:01 PM
#65
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Borg Warner turbo finish.
Cheers Richard.
17-07-2014, 02:12 PM
#66
PassionFord Regular
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: About that area....
Posts: 462
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would go out on a limb here to say those housings were cast in China or similar ...... i see a lot of this with poor finishing on turbos i see day to day .....
As pointed out no it doesn't effect the performance BUT like u quite rightly said when your paying good money for a supposedly quality product it needs to be better than this .....
Are you sure its not a cheep copy ....... ????????
As pointed out no it doesn't effect the performance BUT like u quite rightly said when your paying good money for a supposedly quality product it needs to be better than this .....
Are you sure its not a cheep copy ....... ????????
Last edited by packman; 17-07-2014 at 02:14 PM.
22-07-2014, 10:27 PM
#67
Regular Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Warlingham
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BW stopped the investment casting production and continued the production with regular sand casting to lower the cost of each unit. Thats why the surface finish is terrible compared to the older ones. All later model BWs are supplied with these sand casted turbine housings.
Remember that Garrett turbine housings are cast iron, vs BW cast stainless steel = MUCH higher pouring temps and MUCH harder to get a nice finish. Trust me, I have done some work in a foundary.
The compressor cover is slightly different as the 7670 has a larger compressor than the 7064...
My 7670 is the same as yours. It is, however, much better finished inside than outside.
Remember that Garrett turbine housings are cast iron, vs BW cast stainless steel = MUCH higher pouring temps and MUCH harder to get a nice finish. Trust me, I have done some work in a foundary.
The compressor cover is slightly different as the 7670 has a larger compressor than the 7064...
My 7670 is the same as yours. It is, however, much better finished inside than outside.
23-07-2014, 05:25 PM
#68
Happily retired
I dont care if mine looks like Jays arse as long as it works. The Turbo is an air pump not a sculpture.
Mark is approaching 900bhp this week from an efr with lots of boost still to go & on a small housing @ 34 ambient. Jays arse actually works has many have smelt
.
Mark is approaching 900bhp this week from an efr with lots of boost still to go & on a small housing @ 34 ambient. Jays arse actually works has many have smelt
.
23-07-2014, 05:31 PM
#69
Thats your prerogative young Rodders My point is if care doesnt look like its been taken then more than likely it hasnt ! Spose you could hold it together with cable ties if it shits itself
!what 900 on yb ? or evo either way that powers been reached hasnt it not without re inventing the wheels -)
Last edited by Jay,; 23-07-2014 at 05:39 PM.
23-07-2014, 06:25 PM
#70
10K+ Poster!!
That first pic by Mark is my one.....glad it looks pretty! The rocker cover is about to be swapped for a newly refurbed one by the way.
23-07-2014, 08:01 PM
#72
10K+ Poster!!
Have not smelt Jay's arse, don't intend on it either.
23-07-2014, 09:30 PM
#73
What this guy said. Investment casting looks awesome but the rejection rate was very high so BW switched to sand casting. Would you rather that or very short supply of EFR's? Now stop crying about it, fit it and enjoy what is by far a better turbo than garretts nearest equivalent
I have spoken to them and they said they are all like it, that's just the way it is.
Rich
23-07-2014, 09:45 PM
#75
23-07-2014, 09:47 PM
#76
In a word yes!
If you bought a brand fine new Ferrari 458 and all the paint started falling off and you took it back to the dealer and they say
"What's your problem it still laps the Nurburgring in 7:32 who cares what it looks like?"
Then you said "Ok fair enough any chance of a bit off the price then?"
and then they said "No that's just the way it is, now on your way fella."
"But look at the ones in the brochure they look awesome and the paint is faultless"
Then they say "Well we used to do it like that but it cost to much so well let be frank up yours.... are you still here? Jog on mate!"
Rich
If you bought a brand fine new Ferrari 458 and all the paint started falling off and you took it back to the dealer and they say
"What's your problem it still laps the Nurburgring in 7:32 who cares what it looks like?"
Then you said "Ok fair enough any chance of a bit off the price then?"
and then they said "No that's just the way it is, now on your way fella."
"But look at the ones in the brochure they look awesome and the paint is faultless"
Then they say "Well we used to do it like that but it cost to much so well let be frank up yours.... are you still here? Jog on mate!"
Rich
Last edited by Sonic Boom; 23-07-2014 at 09:48 PM.
23-07-2014, 09:50 PM
#77
cossie fan (unluckerly)
I'll be fitting one on mine without worry
23-07-2014, 10:07 PM
#78
I guess people see thing different which is fair enough. But at the end of the day your paying for a turbo that makes a number as effishentaly and quickly as possibly to me what it looks like inside or outside dosent matter if it dose that well and reliably.
I'll be fitting one on mine without worry
I'll be fitting one on mine without worry
If I had seen BW photos showing these lovely turbos, and seen other people had bought them....
Then I ordered and bought expecting the same...surely I'd have every right to be pissed off when something very different arrives ?
Yes the turbo's main purpose is to make power etc...but none of BW's literature shows the nasty looking housing.
Some people care as much about the appearance of cars, engine bays etc as they do it's performance.
23-07-2014, 10:11 PM
#79
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Little bit of a thread hi jack but has there been any development of running these BW turbo's at more modest levels of Hp say 380-450, all you hear is them being used for high Hp applications.
Is there a viable option for say a T34 type turbo replacement or are they just for Hp chasers.
Is there a viable option for say a T34 type turbo replacement or are they just for Hp chasers.
23-07-2014, 10:19 PM
#80
Their smallest EFR is rated at around 440hp. There are many specs
http://www.diesel-plus.com/products.php?cat=36&scri=10
http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-efr/
http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...t.phtml?p=1849
http://www.theboostlab.com/store/cat...er/EFR-Series/
http://www.diesel-plus.com/products.php?cat=36&scri=10
http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-efr/
http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...t.phtml?p=1849
http://www.theboostlab.com/store/cat...er/EFR-Series/