Testing a new product idea today.
10-05-2012, 01:39 PM
#1
Testing a new product idea today.
Having owned and driven plenty of Cosworths, i know a few of the little problems you can get with them.
One of those issues is after fitting a turbo cooler keeping the temperature down during the summer, the coolant doesnt get hot enough during the winter! I used to have to disconnect mine during the winter months or the car cruised at under 70 degrees! still in cold start!
Also, directing the coolant from the turbo straight to the header tank with no cooler will help reduce warm up time by a great deal, as the coolant pumped through the turbo warms up very very fast indeed and when the car is cold you dont want to be cooling this down!
So i have been working on a thermostat that we can use on the Turbo coolers,
This will allow coolant to flow straight back to the header tank when the car is cold, to help reduce the warm up time, and also keep the temperatures up when the car is cold.
And then when the thermostat opens the coolant is diverted through the turbo cooler, so it only works when it really needs to.
This Thermostat also constantly allows a trace flow through the turbo cooler to prevent air locks.
What do you guys think? good idea?
Ive tested the first one today, the results were perfect!
im currently working to make it into a kit we can sell. There are plenty of options open here, hard piped, silicone hose, even having a new fitting welded to allloy header tanks so each has its own return.
One of those issues is after fitting a turbo cooler keeping the temperature down during the summer, the coolant doesnt get hot enough during the winter! I used to have to disconnect mine during the winter months or the car cruised at under 70 degrees! still in cold start!
Also, directing the coolant from the turbo straight to the header tank with no cooler will help reduce warm up time by a great deal, as the coolant pumped through the turbo warms up very very fast indeed and when the car is cold you dont want to be cooling this down!
So i have been working on a thermostat that we can use on the Turbo coolers,
This will allow coolant to flow straight back to the header tank when the car is cold, to help reduce the warm up time, and also keep the temperatures up when the car is cold.
And then when the thermostat opens the coolant is diverted through the turbo cooler, so it only works when it really needs to.
This Thermostat also constantly allows a trace flow through the turbo cooler to prevent air locks.
What do you guys think? good idea?
Ive tested the first one today, the results were perfect!
im currently working to make it into a kit we can sell. There are plenty of options open here, hard piped, silicone hose, even having a new fitting welded to allloy header tanks so each has its own return.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 10-05-2012 at 02:35 PM.
10-05-2012, 01:42 PM
#2
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thats a great idea, i don't really suffer with it not warming up as in oz its a lot warmer than here but none the less it could aid on one of those cold mornings/nights.
10-05-2012, 01:53 PM
#3
Yes, in some cases you just dont want the coolant to be cooled, the engine has a thermostat to keep it warm, but the turbo cooler works all the time regardlesss of temperature normally,
even when the car is stone cold and the engine stat is shut the damm turbo cooler is cooling the coolant down
In that scenario the turbo should be helping the coolant warm up!
even when the car is stone cold and the engine stat is shut the damm turbo cooler is cooling the coolant down
In that scenario the turbo should be helping the coolant warm up!
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 10-05-2012 at 02:33 PM.
10-05-2012, 02:38 PM
#6
Happily retired
Very good idea but not new i purchased such a 12v temp controlled diverter from the States around 10 years to do just as you describe it never got fitted because it was never needed. Ive just rummaged through my component cabinet but cant find it.
10-05-2012, 02:40 PM
#7
Im sure the idea has been around for a long time Rod, but ive never seen one used on a cosworth, and i know alot of folks struggle with the coolant temp issue, obviously the bigger and more efficient we make the turbo cooler the worse this issue will get.
Ours dont need any power,.
Ours dont need any power,.
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10-05-2012, 02:40 PM
#8
Sounds like a good idea in theory, but when is it reccomended to have a turbo cooler as I don't have one and never really thought I needed it. Are we talkng about track cars that get used on the road aswell?
Not being critical, I am genuinely interested to know more.
Not being critical, I am genuinely interested to know more.
10-05-2012, 02:42 PM
#9
The Turbo coolers work really well on any car really, they help keep the coolant temps under control, mine came down by around 10 degrees in the summer.
i see loads of them fitted. When the turbo is woring hard, the coolant being pumped through it gets very very hot!
i see loads of them fitted. When the turbo is woring hard, the coolant being pumped through it gets very very hot!
10-05-2012, 04:12 PM
#16
Zee Germans are coming
ive never ran the water cooling on any of my cars and have had no problems in doing so
t34.63 hitting 36 pounds per square inch
the t4 dont run water cooling
is there any real need for it ???
genuine question
t34.63 hitting 36 pounds per square inch
the t4 dont run water cooling
is there any real need for it ???
genuine question
10-05-2012, 04:16 PM
#17
The real T4s do have water cooling.
It is a good idea really, it really helps a great deal with the warm up time, you want the car to be cold and running on cold start for as little time as possible, and pumping coolant through the exhaust is a great way to warm up quickly if you leave it the way ford had it plumbed with no cooler,
And start stop it helps cool the core.
It is a good idea really, it really helps a great deal with the warm up time, you want the car to be cold and running on cold start for as little time as possible, and pumping coolant through the exhaust is a great way to warm up quickly if you leave it the way ford had it plumbed with no cooler,
And start stop it helps cool the core.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 10-05-2012 at 04:17 PM.
10-05-2012, 05:08 PM
#20
Not sure I fully get what your saying...
Are you saying to take heated water from the cylinder head side of the thermostat housing and routing it straight back to the header tank and then once upto a certain temperature the water will then flow through the pipe on the side of the stat housing and through the turbo then turbo cooler to header tank as normal?
Would this not require a new thermostat housing or possibly spacing the thermostat housing and the spacer having a take off?
Are you saying to take heated water from the cylinder head side of the thermostat housing and routing it straight back to the header tank and then once upto a certain temperature the water will then flow through the pipe on the side of the stat housing and through the turbo then turbo cooler to header tank as normal?
Would this not require a new thermostat housing or possibly spacing the thermostat housing and the spacer having a take off?
Last edited by Gav Diamond; 10-05-2012 at 05:14 PM.
10-05-2012, 08:58 PM
#30
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hi James, I run the turbo cooler now as i fitted it at last. all i would do is where the pipe goes into the cooler have it T`d off and have a bypass pipe with one that feeds the expansion tanks for winter use, then in summer turn the tap then it just goes through the cooler! having it controlled with a stat though will save opening the bonnet tho 
I have the braded pipe from the turbo to the cooler and only really wants to sit in one position, unless there was something my pipe would fit to then goto the cooler. Would it be worth owners that use the cooler to u/l a picture of the install, I know its a basic setup but some may do it different than others and may find it not fitting. Ill take a picture of the way I did mine tomorrow, you can let me know if your new kit will work ok on my setup.
I have the braded pipe from the turbo to the cooler and only really wants to sit in one position, unless there was something my pipe would fit to then goto the cooler. Would it be worth owners that use the cooler to u/l a picture of the install, I know its a basic setup but some may do it different than others and may find it not fitting. Ill take a picture of the way I did mine tomorrow, you can let me know if your new kit will work ok on my setup.
11-05-2012, 03:06 PM
#36
Zee Germans are coming
well your not so shut it
and you still work on and use the so called turbos from the 70's
just tells me how behind you are as a company lol
11-05-2012, 03:41 PM
#37
Its you who was talking only about your old technology turbos... James was aiming the discussion at all types of turbo.
As for being behind as a company, I have 105 installers all over the world remapping more marques of cars than any other one company on the planet.
Interestingly, Kenny is currently recalibrating an April 2012 BMW 535D for an installer over in Greece, without ever having seen it, and we are working with him using data logs of AFR, ACT, EGT and pump / injector pressure online from his dyno thousands of miles away... sounds pretty current to me, but humour me, what is your company doing right now?
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 11-05-2012 at 03:46 PM.
11-05-2012, 04:45 PM
#39
Yes mate,
The last OE breakpoint is at 77c then it retains 0 compensation all the way to 120 as standard but of course once your on a none OE map your in the hands of the calibrator. my breakpoints tend to be a little different to better suit the closed loop algorthym.
I thought you were looking into mapping these things last time we spoke? Did you sack it off in the end?
The last OE breakpoint is at 77c then it retains 0 compensation all the way to 120 as standard but of course once your on a none OE map your in the hands of the calibrator. my breakpoints tend to be a little different to better suit the closed loop algorthym.
I thought you were looking into mapping these things last time we spoke? Did you sack it off in the end?
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 11-05-2012 at 04:47 PM.
11-05-2012, 04:50 PM
#40
Yes mate,
The last breakpoint is at 77c then it retains 0 compensation all the way to 120 as standard but of course once your on a none OE map your in the hands of the calibrator.
I thought you were looking into mapping these things last time we spoke? Did you sack it off in the end?
The last breakpoint is at 77c then it retains 0 compensation all the way to 120 as standard but of course once your on a none OE map your in the hands of the calibrator.
I thought you were looking into mapping these things last time we spoke? Did you sack it off in the end?
I've just looked at a std 4x4 calibration and there is no compensation to the fuel table at 77 deg (as you mentioned) there is also non at 65 deg..I do need to chat to you about something, I will give you a call next week
Last edited by Martin-Hadland; 11-05-2012 at 05:02 PM.
