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Old 10-05-2012, 01:39 PM   #1
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Default Testing a new product idea today.

Having owned and driven plenty of Cosworths, i know a few of the little problems you can get with them.
One of those issues is after fitting a turbo cooler keeping the temperature down during the summer, the coolant doesnt get hot enough during the winter! I used to have to disconnect mine during the winter months or the car cruised at under 70 degrees! still in cold start!

Also, directing the coolant from the turbo straight to the header tank with no cooler will help reduce warm up time by a great deal, as the coolant pumped through the turbo warms up very very fast indeed and when the car is cold you dont want to be cooling this down!

So i have been working on a thermostat that we can use on the Turbo coolers,

This will allow coolant to flow straight back to the header tank when the car is cold, to help reduce the warm up time, and also keep the temperatures up when the car is cold.
And then when the thermostat opens the coolant is diverted through the turbo cooler, so it only works when it really needs to.
This Thermostat also constantly allows a trace flow through the turbo cooler to prevent air locks.

What do you guys think? good idea?
Ive tested the first one today, the results were perfect!

im currently working to make it into a kit we can sell. There are plenty of options open here, hard piped, silicone hose, even having a new fitting welded to allloy header tanks so each has its own return.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:42 PM   #2
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thats a great idea, i don't really suffer with it not warming up as in oz its a lot warmer than here but none the less it could aid on one of those cold mornings/nights.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:53 PM   #3
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Yes, in some cases you just dont want the coolant to be cooled, the engine has a thermostat to keep it warm, but the turbo cooler works all the time regardlesss of temperature normally,

even when the car is stone cold and the engine stat is shut the damm turbo cooler is cooling the coolant down
In that scenario the turbo should be helping the coolant warm up!

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Old 10-05-2012, 01:53 PM   #4
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That is a great idea James. As said when I was driving to Santa pod the other day mine was in the 50's
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:22 PM   #5
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It was your car that reminded me of the problems i had
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:38 PM   #6
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Very good idea but not new i purchased such a 12v temp controlled diverter from the States around 10 years to do just as you describe it never got fitted because it was never needed. Ive just rummaged through my component cabinet but cant find it.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:40 PM   #7
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Im sure the idea has been around for a long time Rod, but ive never seen one used on a cosworth, and i know alot of folks struggle with the coolant temp issue, obviously the bigger and more efficient we make the turbo cooler the worse this issue will get.

Ours dont need any power,.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:40 PM   #8
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Sounds like a good idea in theory, but when is it reccomended to have a turbo cooler as I don't have one and never really thought I needed it. Are we talkng about track cars that get used on the road aswell?
Not being critical, I am genuinely interested to know more.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:42 PM   #9
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The Turbo coolers work really well on any car really, they help keep the coolant temps under control, mine came down by around 10 degrees in the summer.

i see loads of them fitted. When the turbo is woring hard, the coolant being pumped through it gets very very hot!
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:33 PM   #10
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James what a stupid idea, i could of told you Rod thought of that idea in 1931

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Old 10-05-2012, 03:34 PM   #11
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worth speaking to airtec about doing the cooler and stat as a kit? dont know whether the cooler could have a bracket incorporated as part of it?
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:40 PM   #12
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I am speaking to Airtec about this already, but the stat im using is very small and can be supported by the hoses.
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:41 PM   #13
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James what a stupid idea, i could of told you Rod thought of that idea in 1931

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Old 10-05-2012, 03:57 PM   #14
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Sounds like a good idea James for most cars but will i need one when i go to a electric water pump with my radiators in the rear quarter panels ,using a EWP controller ?.
as i was still going to use the turbo cooler in the engine bay.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:03 PM   #15
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You will have to try it first Andy and see how yours works!
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:12 PM   #16
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ive never ran the water cooling on any of my cars and have had no problems in doing so
t34.63 hitting 36 pounds per square inch
the t4 dont run water cooling

is there any real need for it ???

genuine question
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:16 PM   #17
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The real T4s do have water cooling.

It is a good idea really, it really helps a great deal with the warm up time, you want the car to be cold and running on cold start for as little time as possible, and pumping coolant through the exhaust is a great way to warm up quickly if you leave it the way ford had it plumbed with no cooler,
And start stop it helps cool the core.

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Old 10-05-2012, 04:41 PM   #18
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Sounds like a plan.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:50 PM   #19
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t34.63 hitting 36 pounds per square inch
the t4 dont run water cooling
Thats the turbos from the 70s dealt with... now onto more modern ones designed within the last 30+ years that MUST run water through them.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:08 PM   #20
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Not sure I fully get what your saying...

Are you saying to take heated water from the cylinder head side of the thermostat housing and routing it straight back to the header tank and then once upto a certain temperature the water will then flow through the pipe on the side of the stat housing and through the turbo then turbo cooler to header tank as normal?

Would this not require a new thermostat housing or possibly spacing the thermostat housing and the spacer having a take off?
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:46 PM   #21
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No, the thermostat we are fitting goes after the turbo.

It determines if the coolant flows through the turbo cooler or straight to the header tank
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:09 PM   #22
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I like the sound of this please keep me up to speed on this
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments View Post
Thats the turbos from the 70s dealt with... now onto more modern ones designed within the last 30+ years that MUST run water through them.
Not quite ime stu, turbo companies will advise but we have never had water through any of the gt turbos, even on race cars and not had an issue.

I heard the early plastic cages gt series had issues but are now steel ball bearing cages.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:39 PM   #24
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Not quite ime stu, turbo companies will advise but we have never had water through any of the gt turbos, even on race cars and not had an issue.
Agreed, so have we mate, but 90% of turbo companies wont warrant them without the core water cooled.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:08 PM   #25
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Cool, just didn't want to panic everyone not running water

Ps 30year old turbo ftw
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:19 PM   #26
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Obviously this turbo cooler thermostat is for those people running turbo coolers which have water in them.
Be pretty pointless anyone buying one if they didn't have a turbo cooler or coolant going through the turbo really.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:19 PM   #27
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Cool, just didn't want to panic everyone not running water
Jim, you should know by know that anyone with a turbo will panic no matter whats running through it. LOL
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:20 PM   #28
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Obviously this turbo cooler thermostat is for those people running turbo coolers which have water in them. Be pretty pointless anyone buying one if they didn't have a turbo cooler or coolant going through the turbo really.

Quote of the topic... I wish I had just put that instead.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:23 PM   #29
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Obviously this turbo cooler thermostat is for those people running turbo coolers which have water in them.
Be pretty pointless anyone buying one if they didn't have a turbo cooler or coolant going through the turbo really.
?

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Jim, you should know by know that anyone with a turbo will panic no matter whats running through it. LOL
That, I know all too well lol
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:58 PM   #30
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hi James, I run the turbo cooler now as i fitted it at last. all i would do is where the pipe goes into the cooler have it T`d off and have a bypass pipe with one that feeds the expansion tanks for winter use, then in summer turn the tap then it just goes through the cooler! having it controlled with a stat though will save opening the bonnet tho I have the braded pipe from the turbo to the cooler and only really wants to sit in one position, unless there was something my pipe would fit to then goto the cooler. Would it be worth owners that use the cooler to u/l a picture of the install, I know its a basic setup but some may do it different than others and may find it not fitting. Ill take a picture of the way I did mine tomorrow, you can let me know if your new kit will work ok on my setup.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:39 PM   #31
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Good idea, should be good
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:40 PM   #32
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Good idea. I would buy a kit from you guys.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:04 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James @ M Developments. View Post
No, the thermostat we are fitting goes after the turbo.

It determines if the coolant flows through the turbo cooler or straight to the header tank
Gotya, will see what my water temps are once the car is running as no point worrying at the moment but sounds a good idea
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:11 AM   #34
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Why does a cosworth have the coolant flow through the turbo and then back to the header tank?
Escort RS Turbo's flow through the turbo and into the rad...

What is best?
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:26 AM   #35
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Can certainly see the value of this idea, much like a stat on an oil cooler I guess
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:06 PM   #36
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Thats the turbos from the 70s dealt with... now onto more modern ones designed within the last 30+ years that MUST run water through them.
are you trying to be funny


































well your not so shut it
and you still work on and use the so called turbos from the 70's
just tells me how behind you are as a company lol
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:41 PM   #37
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are you trying to be funny
well your not so shut it
and you still work on and use the so called turbos from the 70's
just tells me how behind you are as a company lol
No, I am being factual mate, do you know what that turbo was first used on? I hope so after that comment... so lets hear your knowledge...?
Its you who was talking only about your old technology turbos... James was aiming the discussion at all types of turbo.

As for being behind as a company, I have 105 installers all over the world remapping more marques of cars than any other one company on the planet.
Interestingly, Kenny is currently recalibrating an April 2012 BMW 535D for an installer over in Greece, without ever having seen it, and we are working with him using data logs of AFR, ACT, EGT and pump / injector pressure online from his dyno thousands of miles away... sounds pretty current to me, but humour me, what is your company doing right now?

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Old 11-05-2012, 04:37 PM   #38
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I used to have to disconnect mine during the winter months or the car cruised at under 70 degrees! still in cold start!
Is there a compensation to the fuel table at 70 deg??
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:45 PM   #39
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Is there a compensation to the fuel table at 70 deg??
Yes mate,
The last OE breakpoint is at 77c then it retains 0 compensation all the way to 120 as standard but of course once your on a none OE map your in the hands of the calibrator. my breakpoints tend to be a little different to better suit the closed loop algorthym.

I thought you were looking into mapping these things last time we spoke? Did you sack it off in the end?

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Old 11-05-2012, 04:50 PM   #40
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Yes mate,
The last breakpoint is at 77c then it retains 0 compensation all the way to 120 as standard but of course once your on a none OE map your in the hands of the calibrator.

I thought you were looking into mapping these things last time we spoke? Did you sack it off in the end?
Yes I can map these and have done several I've just looked at a std 4x4 calibration and there is no compensation to the fuel table at 77 deg (as you mentioned) there is also non at 65 deg..

I do need to chat to you about something, I will give you a call next week

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Old 11-05-2012, 04:50 PM
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