James Bulger murderer back inside

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Benni If you was James Bulger's mother, you wouldn't feel sorry for them at all, and you wouldn't give a shit about what life they had. You can tell me different, but I know this for a fact. Benni. I would feel angry at their parents for contributing in turning them into little monsters until proven otherwise, possibly enough so to kidnap the parents and interview them myself to decide for myself if they were at fault or not, consequently I would probably end up in jail myself, which of course would do me no good, but when emotionally charged people make mistakes of judgement and im sure I would too. In time though, as I analysed the situation more calmly at a later date, I am confident I would come to the same conclusion as I do now though that it was a tragic waste of two young boys who might have had the potential to have a decent life, in addition to the loss of a loved one. Time does a great job of blunting emotion enough for reason to take over again. I have no idea how much time that would be though, might be 6 months before I could think straight, might be 20 years!

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[Benni]

Talking of their parents, you never hear of them, at all...

Benni.

[warrenpenalver]

id suspect they are laying low/under police protection

[RickyLee53]

Originally Posted by Caprigirl

Yeah I was in reins when i was young too , I think they are a great idea ,

the refernce of the child as "IT" was what offended me.

Most kids now seen to have a wrist landyard so that their parents can keep control of them

To be honest, "it" was correct term when used in the context, he wasn't talking about a specific child, didn't know the sex, and was making reference to what he had already said.

Ironically I see the "reins" as dog like. I normally hold my daughters hand/carry her maybe this will change when shes a bit older.

My aunt was a parole officer of the said case, it caused a big family argument at the time and he ended up living near me in recent years. He got a few beatings

[Alps Pacino]

Originally Posted by Chip

But there is in fact a much higher chance of you commiting a murder if you are from peckham than from surrey etc, just based on the general differences in upbringing, surely no one doubts that?
Its a shades of grey thing, its not a case of all kids with a good upbringing will be good and all kids with a bad upbringing wont be, as there is no easy way to define what constitutes a good or bad upbringing for all kids in one go, a good upbringing is about correct moral guidance etc not just money, which is a mistake people often make when decided if people had a good upbringing, loads of kids from priveledged backgrounds are still not given a good moral start in life or dont have the correct emotional input as kids, so although wealthy materially they can still be poor kids emotionally and morally.

But there are different reasons as to why people murder others, gangs killing other gangs, robberys, and in the case of bulger just cause 2 lads thought it was fun.

I still believe that genetics still make a person how they are but there upbringing will still play a part in how they turn out but some people are more likely to turn out to be bad than others and thats why not all people with the same shite upbringing turn out to be equally as bad.

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Alps Pacino

I still believe that genetics still make a person how they are but there upbringing will still play a part in how they turn out but some people are more likely to turn out to be bad than others and thats why not all people with the same shite upbringing turn out to be equally as bad.

Well of course, both nature and nurture have an input into how someone turns out, as per most of my replies in this thread.
We all have genetic dispositions towards certain traits, and our upbringing will then either surpress or exagerate those genetic dispositions, likewise with things like mental health, you have a genetic disposition that makes it more or less likely you will be schizophrenic etc, but its also a function of your lifestyle, im of the belief it would be possible to turn more or less anyone schizophrenic with the correct inputs to them to do so if you conducted such an experiment, but in the case of some people it would be far easier than others.

[Alps Pacino]

what you put above is what i have been saying but not in the same way you put it.

So if you agree that people can be born a ertain way why are you banging on about there parents all the time, yes they might have played a part in there up bringing but that isnt the be all and end all of them comiting the murders is it?

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Alps Pacino

what you put above is what i have been saying but not in the same way you put it.

So if you agree that people can be born a ertain way why are you banging on about there parents all the time, yes they might have played a part in there up bringing but that isnt the be all and end all of them comiting the murders is it?

Because how people are born cant be helped, but how they are raised can be, and if we as a society want to cut down on the number of child murders like this, then we need to focus on how our youngsters are brought up as it would be unethical to alter how they are born even if we could.
No point concentrating on the aspects you can do nothing about if you are looking for a solution, and by nature I am one of life's natural problem solvers so whenever something like this occurs my focus is always on what could be done to stop it.

[DazS1Turbo]

Horrid Evil individuals regardless of age 1 thing is clear they should NEVER have been let out of prison, this cunt's out sniffing beak and carrying himself on without a care in the world

I hope that one day they will get what's coming to them but justice wont be served by our spineless government that's clear!

[* T *]

Originally Posted by DazS1Turbo

I hope that one day they will get what's coming to them but justice wont be served by our spineless government that's clear!

already been said in the papers this morning that in prison they have worked out who he is, but again he will be given a new identity at the cost of around £250k..

[DazS1Turbo]

Originally Posted by **T**

already been said in the papers this morning that in prison they have worked out who he is, but again he will be given a new identity at the cost of around £250k..

Why cant he just " have a fall down the stair's" off to mortuary in a body bag, short press release "died in prison fall from a head injury" end of story 1 down 1 to go

boil's my blood

[Alps Pacino]

Originally Posted by Chip

Because how people are born cant be helped, but how they are raised can be, and if we as a society want to cut down on the number of child murders like this, then we need to focus on how our youngsters are brought up as it would be unethical to alter how they are born even if we could.
No point concentrating on the aspects you can do nothing about if you are looking for a solution, and by nature I am one of life's natural problem solvers so whenever something like this occurs my focus is always on what could be done to stop it.

But if its genetics then all the help in the world aint going to change them is it ?

Its like sitting a gay bloke down and trying to make them straight lol its never going to happen

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Alps Pacino

But if its genetics then all the help in the world aint going to change them is it ?

If your view of genetics is that you are either born good or evil and there is utterly no middle ground and no grey areas then I guess from that viewpoint it would appear like that, but Im not of that viewpoint as I know better than that massively oversimplified view in the first place TBH

Its like sitting a gay bloke down and trying to make them straight lol its never going to happen

Actually its more like a girl who is inherently bisexual by nature choosing one path or the other as a result of nurture as our moral compass is far less strongly polarised by genetics than our sexuality IMHO.

But your example ironically is a better indication of how strong nurture has than anything I could ever come up with, as if you go back 60 years, people who were born gay did in fact live their entire lives as straight purely because of the way they were brought up and conditioned to do so, so by your own example even someone born evil could potentially be nurtured into living and acting as if they were someone good (ie not killing anyone)

[Alps Pacino]

i do believe that some people can be born then turned by there up bringing but i equally believe that there are people who will do horrible things no matter what and people that will never do anything horrible in there life just cause they dont have it in them.

but if she was bi and chose to be with a a women, she would still be attrated to men so geneticaly hasnt been been changed from being bi sexual has she?

[DarylC]

Originally Posted by Chip

But your example ironically is a better indication of how strong nurture has than anything I could ever come up with, as if you go back 60 years, people who were born gay did in fact live their entire lives as straight purely because of the way they were brought up and conditioned to do so, so by your own example even someone born evil could potentially be nurtured into living and acting as if they were someone good (ie not killing anyone)

People were gay 60 years ago, they just weren't allowed to openly admit to it

[cozzfather]

did he end up in walton ???

he will be in with the bent coppers,kiddy fiddlers,and other weirdo's from societys dregs.

thats some consolation knowing he could get shafted by a pervo.

[RobL]

there was a tv program on once that i watched about murderers and serial killers etc on death row cant remember what it was called
they examined killers brains and found that the prefrontal cortex part of their brain that controls normal everyday emotions for normal folk like reasoning and compasion doesnt function therefore they were born evil
they were either born evil or they found at some point in their lifes a lot of them had recieved a heavy bang to the head that could also cause the damage

[Chip]

Originally Posted by DarylC

People were gay 60 years ago, they just weren't allowed to openly admit to it

Indeed, and as a result many of those gays were nurtured into living their entire life as if they were straight as they were brought up to believe being gay was wrong.
If you can effect something as dramatically integral to someone's personality as wether or not they act on their sexuality then effecting wether or not they kill someone is a very trival thing to control by comparison.

[Chip]

Originally Posted by RobL

there was a tv program on once that i watched about murderers and serial killers etc on death row cant remember what it was called
they examined killers brains and found that the prefrontal cortex part of their brain that controls normal everyday emotions for normal folk like reasoning and compasion doesnt function therefore they were born evil
they were either born evil or they found at some point in their lifes a lot of them had recieved a heavy bang to the head that could also cause the damage

Being apathetic as a result of brain damage or birth defect isnt a case of you being evil or not, there is a difference between not caring about others and specifically setting out to hurt others, and anyway like I said previously in the case of people with a mental condition its down to parents and authorities to recognise that there is a problem and either treat it or section the person if it isnt treatable, rather than just boot the kids out the door everyday and not give a fuck what they are doing so long as they dont come home till bedtime which seems to be the attitude of the two boys parents in question from what I gather.

[thebigyin]

chip, i see youre point but disagree, bad little bastards..simple as.


btw, you do go on dont you.

[KSA-Cossie]

Originally Posted by thebigyin

chip, i see youre point but disagree, bad little bastards..simple as.


btw, you do go on dont you.

And some of his comments like "i know better than that" piss you off.

[Big G]

Originally Posted by cozzfather

did he end up in walton ???

he will be in with the bent coppers,kiddy fiddlers,and other weirdo's from societys dregs.

thats some consolation knowing he could get shafted by a pervo.

Doubt it, too close to 'home' and Walton is within the boundaries he wasnt supposed to enter (part reason why he got arrested).
He will prob be over Yorkshire way (Wakey/Lindholme) on a high risk wing.

[Benni]

Originally Posted by thebigyin

btw, you do go on dont you.

Go on? He never shuts up.

Benni.

[Big G]

Originally Posted by Benni

Go on? He never shuts up.

Benni.

Should re-name him Ariston

[Benni]

Originally Posted by Big G

Should re-name him Ariston

[DazS1Turbo]

Originally Posted by Big G

Should re-name him Ariston

Quote of the year ha ha

Hope it sticks too

[wirralphil]

Years back we got fitted curtains from some place in liverpool, not long after JB was murdered. The fitter said he lived in the nearby road to Thompson. Said even when he was younger ie 5-6 he was an awful kid, seen hitting cats etc etc. He was a sadistic cunt.

Both need public hanging!! Swerve any other sick twats trying the same stunts!!!!

[**Claire**]

I've just started working for Education finance for my LA. My background is finance so I have no idea about psychology or anything else like that but when we do the ISSB for special schools we have to go and sit in on the Headteachers enumeration exercise where they discuss which funding banding each pupil should be in based on their educational needs.

Believe me the stuff that I've heard has opened my eyes to a lot of things. I was very blinkered to what actually goes on in society, because my own children have had a relatively good upbringing I thought that was the norm.

But it isn't, most of the people who have commented on this thread have no idea what goes on everyday within a childrens services environment. Special schools, what does that mean to everyone? Children who are handicap? Who need assistance in a wheel chair or who have some other disability?? Well that's not how it is these days, there are special schools set up within each LA which deal with children who can't continue to be taught within mainstream school settings. Not because they have a physical disability, but because if the facilities weren't available they would have to be permanently excluded, no education, no support just left outside an education setting to see what they can pick up from their life experiences. Believe me, no mainstream school wants a disruptive pupil on their roll. Especially one that poses a threat to teachers and other students due to their behaviour.

Teachers and psychologists have a matter of fact way of talking about children with difficulties, its almost clinical. There is no nurture or nature because they know that they have to ensure that they provide the best care for the children that they have because they are often the childs last resort.

A child doesn't choose to be born, every child will not have the same opportunities, some children do have special education needs above and beyond what you would expect your average child to have. What I think is so sad is that some of those children just through intervention could have such different prospects.

I have no idea what kind of parents the children of James Bulgers killers have. I have no idea what influences they had on their lives. But one thing is for certain, something in their lives went gravely wrong and for whatever reason which only those two boys know they committed a horrific crime.

Maybe it was the way nature intended and their genetic make up made them that way, maybe it was their family life and their upbringing? Maybe it was the films that they watched when they were growing up? I don't know, I'm not party to the case file and the psychologists findings but even after all that its only an opinion.

A few months ago I would have posted something very different, but I'm a lot wiser now. All it takes is a day sitting in a classroom setting with these disadvantaged children and you get the picture loud and clear

[opposite lock]

I think thats well said, i have seen for my own eyes some of the kids in society that are in these places and it can be very shocking and disturbing.
Once you see it for yourself it really hits home what some kids have seen and been through. It also makes me realise how very lucky i was to have a 'normal' upbringing .

In the case of Venables and Thompson only they,re gonna know WHY and how it happened.

[cossiejay]

re arrested for a sexual act both should be shot simple as that

[skeg]

Yep as above the Sun are now reporting it as sex charge that he will go to court for but say if they reveal it fully the government will hammer them. Never can be sure with the Sun as they are a bullshit newspaper and the Daily Mail said a few days ago it was because he had a fight with a workmate and took drugs but IF true then that's shocking. The press and media keep pushing it day by day, surely its only a matter of time before it comes out and his picture is printed somewhere.

JAMES Bulger's killer Jon Venables was thrown back in jail over an allegation that he committed a sickening sex crime, The Sun can reveal.

The 27-year-old is expected to be brought before a court in the near future to face charges over it.
The Sun has discovered exact details of the offence, that will horrify the nation.
But government lawyers last night threatened to gag us with an injunction if we revealed it in full.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...ex-charge.html

I'm just curious to see what they look like now, stuff the danger they face.

[Dangerous Malcolm..]

The Sun has a petition you can sign to hopefully reveal what the serious sexual allegation against him is, which the government are trying to block. So it looks like he did do summat serious.........

My own personal wish is for the pair of them to die very slow, very painful deaths. Fuck nature or nurture, they're just evil bastards.

[Ad4m RST]

Without drawing out EVERYTHING that's been Aristone'd I'll just say sadism is a variable in someone's personality and like anything will have a certain subconcious process, to the extent an accepted level emerges. It's only genetic at all from upbringing and media exposure, nothing from birth itself, an 'evil' thought is just a sustained chemical reaction and again the limits of any given person alllow them to entertain or dismiss it.

Prolonged tension, lack of falsified boundaries and the fed notion it's how things are meant to be will set someone on a slippery slope regardless, injustice systemically breeds anger. So I'll agree you're almost destined to offend with that sort of structure, but it's not genetic IMO.


In this case I hope they well and truly destroy themselves the horrible c*nts.

[Benni]

It has now been comfirmed that he is back in jail because of extremely serious claims.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/ma...serious-claims

Benni.

Edit - Scrap that, I am well late. LOL!

[DazS1Turbo]

Fur Fux Sake

Actually fumming here

Just been on news it's sexual as Benni says

How much £££££££££ of our money will he have had spent on him to protect him and re-educate him........

We are FAR to fucking soft - Shocking Just Shocking to be honest

[cozzfather]

says here he is a nightclub bouncer

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nightclub.html

[Benni]

You have to feel for his Mum. Surely the other people involved can freely come forward, or will they not know who he was still?

Benni.

[RobL]

wouldnt surprise me if some recent pics and info on him are leaked soon
there must be a few people out there who associated with him and are putting two and two together surely?

[wirralphil]

Originally Posted by RobL

wouldnt surprise me if some recent pics and info on him are leaked soon
there must be a few people out there who associated with him and are putting two and two together surely?

From the Liverpool Echo...

CHILD killer Jon Venables was recalled to prison because of 'very serious allegations', Justice Secretary Jack Straw said today.
It comes as the ECHO revealed how the 27-year-old's terrible past was discovered by shocked pals and led to a confrontation at work.
A national newspaper also claimed today that Venables was returned to custody for committing a serious sexual offence, although that has not been confirmed.
Sources told us a fight broke out at Venables' workplace after friends carried out their own detective work into suspicions he was James Bulger's killer.
Checks into his date of birth appeared to corroborate their suspicions and led to increasing anger among his peers.
The ECHO understands Venables had created a Facebook profile, using the identity given to him by the Home Office after his controversial release and new anonymity in 2001, and exchanged messages with friends.
But one outraged person, fuelled by incontrovertible evidence that this was the two-year-old’s killer, decided to try to expose him online.
A message was posted on Venables’s own social networking page, under his new name, which read: "Don't you know who this is?"
That comment, along with Venables’s profile, was subsequently removed.
Following the posting, an altercation took place at work from which Venables is said to have been pulled away and led to a complaint being made.

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[warrenpenalver]

they gave him an SIA badge to be a bouncer??

I know they have to make a new Identity watertight but youd think his case officer would ensure he had "suitable" employment