James Bulger murderer back inside

[D16PJM]

Originally Posted by Mike C Nope of course not.... But my opinion is, you SHOULD have your eyes on your TWO YEAR OLD kid at all times in a fucking shopping centre. As for it being seconds, bollocks IMO..... To be honest if you do have kids make sure you have a house with big windows because if you live as your opinion your kids won't being going out the door untill there 10 so will need all the sunlight they can get. It is impossible to keep your eye on kids 100% of ther time, as parents all anyone can do is there best. Pete

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[Chip]

Originally Posted by Alps Pacino

I read a lot when i am offshore so although i have no hard evidence to support the theory, it seems that even the profesionals dont either so for either side of the argument is jut based on theory as how do you tell if someone is born to be a murder or not? If you could tell then you could prevent crime before it happens lol

Harold shipman is one sort of example, had a good up bringing with no mental or physical abuse but went on to murder a lot of people

I dont know a huge amount about the harold shipman case, but I do know that he was reportedly for at least a short period a daignosed serious drug abuser who was conviceted because he abused prescribed drugs, and it seems likely to me that action had an equal or greater effect on his eventual personality than anything carried with him from birth did.

One of the potential side effects of the drug he abused was to effect seratonin levels and I should imagine that the godlike feeling he had of life and death over someone was possibly a substitute for that "hit"

[rsmat]

Originally Posted by Stoo

I don't know enough about this to comment, but does anyone know if the two kids set out that day to murder someone, or was it a spur of the moment kinda thing where they saw Bulger and egged each other on?

if ya go through this mate ull find out that they actualy set off to push someone under a car/bus outside the strand shopping centre and a faild snatch on a little boy and girl failed but jamie`s unfortunatly didnt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX8syQSwNYM

follow all the parts and ull get the jist mate.

[stevenebm]

id burn the little bastards.should never have been gave new identities.if it were one of my family they done that too it would be my purpose in life to hunt the fuckers down

[Alps Pacino]

Originally Posted by Chip

I dont know a huge amount about the harold shipman case, but I do know that he was reportedly for at least a short period a daignosed serious drug abuser who was conviceted because he abused prescribed drugs, and it seems likely to me that action had an equal or greater effect on his eventual personality than anything carried with him from birth did.

One of the effects of the drug he abused was to effect seratonin levels and I should imagine that the godlike feeling he had of life and death over someone was possibly a substitute for that "hit"

He was killing people long before he had the drug problem apparently, the one thing that they suspect had an influence on why he used morphine to kill his victims was because it was the drug used by the doctor to put his mother to rest at there home, however they say that this wont of effected his need to kill and just the way that he did kill. They still have no clues to why he actually did what he did and his up bringing or events in his life cant be linked to it as they were as normal as everyone else which supports the theory that some people are just born killers

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Alps Pacino

He was killing people long before he had the drug problem apparently, the one thing that they suspect had an influence on why he used morphine to kill his victims was because it was the drug used by the doctor to put his mother to rest at there home, however they say that this wont of effected his need to kill and just the way that he did kill. They still have no clues to why he actually did what he did and his up bringing or events in his life cant be linked to it as they were as normal as everyone else which supports the theory that some people are just born killers

When was the first murder he is beleived to have committed then? As all the reports I can find say 1975 as the starting point (when he became a GP), which is the same time he was convicted and came OFF the drugs (ie LONG after he started drug use no doubt as no one tends to get caught straight away!) is it not? And possibly at that same time he started looking for a new hobby!

If he was abused as a child or similar, who other than him would know, and what if he didnt want to share such info? So I dont think the lack of evidence to suggest he was, is proof that he wasnt.

I dont really see any strong evidence he was "born a killer" but Ive yet to see any evidence he wasnt, the problem with testing such a theory sadly is that inability to ever do a proper "double blind" style test of the subject.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Mike C

One distraction is one too many though!

No, nobody is going to keep their eyes on their kids 24/7, I totally accept and understand that. But a TWO year old kid in a busy shopping centre CAN'T be let of their guardian's sight.

And anyone who does is unfit to look after kids that age. If the kid was a bit older then ok. I mean it must have been pretty negligent, as a 2 year old isn't going to get that far that quickly in the blink of an eye. He ain't gonna move like Usain Bolt is he?

And you can go on about it never being proven etc, but nothing will change my opinion that she left him on his own while she was shoplifting...

So the punishment for parents that can't keep an eye on their 2yo in a shopping centre is to have their kids taken away from them for torture and death??

The punishment doesn't quite fit the crime there someyhow so stop spouting shit you twat. Do you not think the mother blames herself everyday as it is without cunts like you ignoring the crimes that took place and pointing the finger at her! No one deserves to have that happen to them and to be honest if you had kids you would know. I have no idea how someone can continue living after going through that. The parents lives are over.

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Kieron

So the punishment for parents that can't keep an eye on their 2yo in a shopping centre is to have their kids taken away from them for torture and death??

Can you point to where he said that, as I certainly cant see where he did so?

[D16PJM]

Originally Posted by Chip

Can you point to where he said that, as I certainly cant see where he did so?

he hasn't said that but reading his posts she's the villan so cause of all this which is total crap, ultimately its the parents of these kids that have failed letting them watch horror movies etc at the age of 10.

[Alps Pacino]

Originally Posted by Chip

When was the first murder he is beleived to have committed then? As all the reports I can find say 1975 as the starting point (when he became a GP), which is the same time he was convicted and came OFF the drugs (ie LONG after he started drug use no doubt as no one tends to get caught straight away!) is it not? And possibly at that same time he started looking for a new hobby!

If he was abused as a child or similar, who other than him would know, and what if he didnt want to share such info? So I dont think the lack of evidence to suggest he was, is proof that he wasnt.

I dont really see any strong evidence he was "born a killer" but Ive yet to see any evidence he wasnt, the problem with testing such a theory sadly is that inability to ever do a proper "double blind" style test of the subject.

They say that the first of his murders were when he was still in training as a gp and on placemnet, one of his murders there included a 4 year old girl iirc like you say there is no strong evidence either way to say that people are born killers or that people are not born killers. Theorys say thought that certain things are genetic such as sexuality etc

It is pbviose in everyday life that different people are capable of different things even after having the same upbringing. Personally i couldnt work cutting the throats of a pig as they hang from there feet but some people do it day in day out and dont think twie about it.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Chip

Can you point to where he said that, as I certainly cant see where he did so?

You know I can't because he didn't directly say that. Can you point to where I said he had said that? What I put was a question asking him if he thinks thats the fitting punishment after the comment "The real villain of the piece is the victim's mother".

I am just pointing out that what she done wasn't anywhere near as bad as those boys and certainly not fitting of the end punishment she received in the way of a question.

Maybe I commented in haste and out of everyone on here your the person to pick me up on that. I just don't agree with Mikes mindset on the whole thing and being the father of a 2yo I find the whole situation both sickening and sad. She had a lapse in concentration which is wrong, yes, but sometimes unavoidable. But what those two boys done to her child is the real issue, not a mother losing sight of her toddler for however long.

I also understand exactly what your saying about those two killers being let down by their upbringing but I'm afraid that doesn't excuse their actions. They may have been lovely polite kids given another environment but they wern't are they aren't. For what they done they should be burned. I know provention is key for the future but deterrent is a form of provention too.

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Kieron

You know I can't because he didn't directly say that. Can you point to where I said he had said that? What I put was a question asking him if he thinks thats the fitting punishment after the comment "The real villain of the piece is the victim's mother".

your post read like it was infering that as his belief as that seemed to be what you were aruging against at the same time as quoting him, if you were talking about something he hadnt even said, no point quoting him at all IMHO

I am just pointing out that what she done wasn't ... fitting of the end punishment she received in the way of a question.

of course not, and I really dont believe any person replying in this thread has ever thought that to be the case, although Mike has expressed he feels she is partly to blame I dont agree with his labelling of her as "the real vilian" either and im sure most people wouldnt in fact im sure most people realise she was only to blame in terms of making it easier for them, a bit like if you leave the face on your stereo and then it gets nicked, you've increased the chances of it happening, but its still not actually you doing something wrong, other than being a bit too trusting and naive.

Maybe I commented in haste and out of everyone on here your the person to pick me up on that. I just don't agree with Mikes mindset on the whole thing

I can see his point, but I dont agree with the severity with which he makes it.

and being the father of a 2yo I find the whole situation both sickening and sad. She had a lapse in concentration which is wrong, yes, but sometimes unavoidable.

agreed, a bit of incompmetance at worst.

But what those two boys done to her child is the real issue, not a mother losing sight of her toddler for however long.

Well it required both those things to happen, if it wasnt her kid though, it would have been someone elses, those boys were going to do it whatever happened, just a case of who's kid to.

I also understand exactly what your saying about those two killers being let down by their upbringing but I'm afraid that doesn't excuse their actions.

Of course it doesnt, I totally agree that nothing ever could excuse their actions.

They may have been lovely polite kids given another environment but they wern't are they aren't.

no, and thats what is a shame, they were never given that chance to be decent in the first place IMHO

For what they done they should be burned. I know provention is key for the future but deterrent is a form of provention too.

Deterant in the case of young children needs to be shown by the parents, you could hang those two boys today and it wouldnt effect the behaviour of other young kids as they wouldnt even know it had happened in most cases.

[skeg]

I can see where Chip's coming from regarding the background, family history and childhood and maybe it isn't directly their fault what they did or how they turned out but I simply can't be arsed to discuss that. The thing of importance is that these two little bastards did something that puts them up there with the likes of Mira Hindley and Brady in terms of infamy and atrocity, yet because they were ten years old they have a worldwide protection, even if they keep on committing crimes.

No doubt I was like the rest of you, saw the ITV news advert clips catching attention so tuned in only to hear nothing really revealed and still see that old photo of him. They should put current pictures and footage up so we can see what kind of people we have running about over here. They do it on crimewatch every month so should with this. Protecting their identity still is unbelievable IMO, Name and shame them, that's the least they deserve.

As for the mum not watching her 2 year old son or caring for him the best, again maybe there's a case for that but she would have been punished already over the years and probably even the other day was thinking "what if I held onto him tight" or "what if I didn't go shopping that day". Same with the Mccans and leaving their child alone abroad etc.

Its funny how crime stories like this are always interesting in a way.

[Ad4m RST]

Oh FFS another poignant thread lost in conjecture...

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Chip

your post read like it was infering that as his belief as that seemed to be what you were aruging against at the same time as quoting him, if you were talking about something he hadnt even said, no point quoting him at all IMHO

His reply that I quoted was on page one of a three page thread. I merely quoted that so that he (and others reading) knew I was directing my response to him, not to specifically quote a line he had said and throw it back in his face.

Originally Posted by Chip

of course not, and I really dont believe any person replying in this thread has ever thought that to be the case, although Mike has expressed he feels she is partly to blame I dont agree with his labelling of her as "the real vilian" either and im sure most people wouldnt in fact im sure most people realise she was only to blame in terms of making it easier for them, a bit like if you leave the face on your stereo and then it gets nicked, you've increased the chances of it happening, but its still not actually you doing something wrong, other than being a bit too trusting and naive.

I didn't take the comment of "the real villian" to indicate "partly to blame". maybe we interpretated the sentence differently? Its always difficult to construe how someone means to come across in written form.

Originally Posted by Chip

Well it required both those things to happen, if it wasnt her kid though, it would have been someone elses, those boys were going to do it whatever happened, just a case of who's kid to.

True but in the same vein nothing happens from scratch. What we are doing now is the result of untold things that have happened before. I wouldn't be typing this if my dad hadn't of got my mum drunk that night, but he did and I am. That sweeping statement can be made about every event, as well as the age old "it was fate" comment. Its just peoples way of skirting round the real issue and partly blaming other circumstances.

[turbochild]

So if they two boys should of been killed who would do it and then when they had they would of been child killers. I don't wear all this it was Jamies mums fault well as i have been guilty of losing site of my child in certain situations as allhave if were honest luckily most get away with it. I don't agree these two boys were born evil i don't know there family background, were they froma broken home? Do they have siblings? Where they abused or witness abuse in the home? I just don't know same as i don't know who was worse out the two would this have happened if they weren't friends would they of killed alone i mean. I find it hard to believe that two boys were born evil and met and became killers i just don't buy into that same as i aint sure they had equally as bad backgrounds which turned them into that but at least i don't claim too. All as i know is they probably had more chances inside than there parents could of provided probably walked out into a house new job car etc maybe even someone to wipe there ass for all i know.

[KSA-Cossie]

Originally Posted by Chip

They were just born evil and thats that?

FPMSL, I wish I could have an outlook on life as simple as you have, if ignorance is bliss you must be the happiest man alive


No, he didnt get a second chance, the poor little mite got horrifically tortured and killed and I really hope that the people who need to be are looking into why so as to do anything they can to make any difference to the chances of some other totally innocent child suffering the same horrific fate.

I guess in your mind that means walking around a hospital and working out which kids that have just been born are evil, and slitting their throats there and then before they grow older and get a chance to hurt nice people?

So because you feel sorry for the murdering cunts i have the wrong viewpoint ? ffs where's the ignore button.

[StephenC]

Anyone know why hes gone back inside?? know it says breach of terms but wonder what it was

[DarylC]

Originally Posted by Chip

Am I the only one who actually felt sorry for the killers that at only the age of 10 or whatever it was they had been let down so badly by their families bringing them up that they couldnt distinguish right from wrong?

Yes they are nasty little pieces of work, but why?

There but for the grace of chance go us all, it makes me feel very lucky that I had such a pleasant upbringing with decent parents who gave me the right morals, IMHO those boys stood no chance

I see your point. IMO hang the boys and sentance their parents to 10 years for fucking up a childs upbringing. Doesn't matter how they turned out like that, the fact is they did and they aren't fit to live.



Anyway, I hope they never let that bastard out. Ever.

[danneth]

i also see you point chip, quite amazing how many people actually missed it though and turned it into something else...

quite interesting about the other lad killing again anyone else got anything on this something ive not heard of before

[cozzy940]

no one knows why they were like that and you cant blame the parents all the time , i doubt the parents were showing them which bricks to throw where they??fact is they were two evil little cunts who should have been hung for what they did ,

[.Ross.]

Originally Posted by danneth

i also see you point chip, quite amazing how many people actually missed it though and turned it into something else...

quite interesting about the other lad killing again anyone else got anything on this something ive not heard of before

Never missed the point mate ... Just amazed anybody had the gall to say that ...

Thats why the countrys fooked really ..

He breached his Discharge condition? Maybe he was locked up for flicking a cigg out of a car window?

[cozzy940]

Originally Posted by danneth

i also see you point chip, quite amazing how many people actually missed it though and turned it into something else...

quite interesting about the other lad killing again anyone else got anything on this something ive not heard of before

what point ??? a load of dribble on why were they like that, they were born with that in them society and upbringing doesn't make you want to do the things they did to that poor kid

[warrenpenalver]

Originally Posted by Chip

Am I the only one who actually felt sorry for the killers that at only the age of 10 or whatever it was they had been let down so badly by their families bringing them up that they couldnt distinguish right from wrong?

Yes they are nasty little pieces of work, but why?

Exactly!! those kids were long damaged before they killed.

Originally Posted by jonny s2

i remember this,pure evil, they should not be allowed to change id

wether we like it or not, our legal system gives people that right once they have served their sentance, rehab of offenders, human rights and all that.

just because the majority agree life should equal life, doesnt make it right until the law catches up and changes.

Originally Posted by t4 and greys

and you cant blame the parents for gouging the boys eyes out and sticking sticks up him and inside him ffs
or smashing his poor skull in with bricks can you now !!!!
ffs

Yes you can if the children were neglected/abused or bought up to believe such mistreatment was "normal".

Sure a small percentage of people may be naturally evil but most are not born that way but end up being moulded that way.

Do you think all looser CHAVs are born that way or influenced by thier upbringing?? a mix of both im sure.

Originally Posted by KSA-Cossie

Just born evil m8 and stop trying to be a wide cunt with the coca cola shite,even after all these years people of all ages are still outraged at this terrible crime especially those in the liverpool area.

Sorry but your wrong, there are numerous cases here and abroad of children and adults doing aweful things who had shocking childhoods which quite clearly contributed to their behaviours later on. Its truley niave to suggest its only genetics!!!

Originally Posted by Chip

Deterant in the case of young children needs to be shown by the parents, you could hang those two boys today and it wouldnt effect the behaviour of other young kids as they wouldnt even know it had happened in most cases.

Exactly plus it wouldnt stop it happening in the future with other children.

If you investigate how they were so fucked up, be it neglect, parenting etc at least then you can mould social services, school services etc to spot signs at an early age so we can intervene and hence reduce the number of child/teen murderers.

Its the same ideas being used in understanding CHAV culture/benefit class/poverty etc and how you can change the outlook for children born into such families so you dont have a repeating cycle 20 years down the road.

[DarylC]

Originally Posted by cozzy940

no one knows why they were like that and you cant blame the parents all the time , i doubt the parents were showing them which bricks to throw where they??fact is they were two evil little cunts who should have been hung for what they did ,

agreed

[danneth]

Originally Posted by .Ross.

1. Never missed the point mate ... Just amazed anybody had the gall to say that ...

2. Thats why the countrys fooked really ..

3. He breached his Discharge condition? Maybe he was locked up for flicking a cigg out of a car window?

1. to say what the truth?

2. couldn't agree more if they had been brought up properly in the first place...

3. not sure where this one is from as you make it sound like i disagree with him going back inside?

[rsmat]

the boys understood right from wrong as proved by police when interviewed which in my eyes makes the boys only responsible for the horric murder they commited to poor little jamie.

[danneth]

i dont think they did know right from wrong though, i mean how many 10 year old's do you know what play truant? broken kids from a broken family in no doubt a broken area... i have never seen or heard from the killers parents but i can guess what there like and i bet its not far off scum

that said they should have still been locked up and never allowed out ...

[rsmat]

Originally Posted by danneth

i dont think they did know right from wrong though, i mean how many 10 year old's do you know what play truant? broken kids from a broken family in no doubt a broken area... i have never seen or heard from the killers parents but i can guess what there like and i bet its not far off scum

that said they should have still been locked up and never allowed out ...

they did im afraid mate because the police ran a series of test on the boys in order to sentance them to court rather than being sectioned.

check my early post and follow the evidence on youtube.

[JLStretton]

Like killing baby hitler?

[busa bob]

MIKE C shows you dont have kids an you aint got a fuckin clue what your on about. A 2yr old in a busy shopping centre, distracted by other things can disappear from sight in the bat of an eyelid.. i got 6sons i know!!!! BUT most decent human beings can see their lost/in distress an help them find their parents without the need of smashin there fucking head in, poking their eyes out and sticking things in em..WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT BEIN A PARENT MIKE C YOU COULD WRITE ON THE BACK OF A STAMP!!!!

[busa bob]

CHIP i think you need a psych evaluation not them.. Some people are born blind, some are born deaf, THEY WERE BORN PURE EVIL!!! AND YOU WERE BORN FUCKIN STUPID!!!

[Alps Pacino]

Originally Posted by busa bob

CHIP i think you need a psych evaluation not them.. Some people are born blind, some are born deaf, THEY WERE BORN PURE EVIL!!! AND YOU WERE BORN FUCKIN STUPID!!!

Fuck me mate dont hold back lol

[mrjenrst]

chip i see your point but, i do believe that some people are just born nasty cunts. You cant argue any different tbh.

[Ben Dover]

Horrible little fuckers, I would love to go toe to toe with them. I hope that this wanker gets gang raped!!!

[JayCC]

LOL, you guys are actually amusing to the point it could make somebody sick.

Jamie's mother is not a villian. Have you never heard the tannoy at Tesco's stating a small child had been found and for the parents to contact the helpdesk? Had you NEVER got split from your mum in a store and got horrifically worried when you were young?

Those boys were (and still are it appears) a danger to any community they get put into. Yes their parents are probably to blame, but i'm sure as hell that there are kids out there that go through the same upbringing and maybe do some naughty shit, but killing a 2 year old child is thoroughly their own choice. They knew exactly what they were doing, and they knew exactly how it would end.

Wasn't it Jamie's murder that got the film "Child's Play" banned?

Chip, as you said, their parents are probably particularly to blame (I couldn't say if they were brought up by their parents, I don't actually know) but then are you going to blame the parents of their parents and so on?

I don't see why we have to look at the bigger picture all the time? Its a simple matter of these 2 committing a crime, and they should have paid with a lot more than "Playstation in their cell". Death would have been too humane for these sadistic cunts.

[warrenpenalver]

Originally Posted by JayCC

I don't see why we have to look at the bigger picture all the time? Its a simple matter of these 2 committing a crime, and they should have paid with a lot more than "Playstation in their cell". Death would have been too humane for these sadistic cunts.

Because often its the bigger picture and the problems in society as a whole that cause these problems leading to such child killers in the first place!!!

Sure theres no denying there will always be some evil kids who despite the best parenting in the world will become killers.

But theres a hell of a lot more child killers and children committing nasty crimes now than say 30 years ago. so why is that?? changes in society and the way we bring up (or dont as the case may be) our children. Reverse those problems with up bringing and youll reduce the child crimes. any police man will tell you the same.

So yes the bigger picture is just as important.

[R5FORD]

lmao how can anyone be born evil???

Its a shame what happend to the child but cummon if the mother only took her eyes of the child for a few seconds she would have surely seen him when she went looking for him as judging by the comments would have been what 10 seconds after she took her eyes of him??, being a 2 year old i doubt he was very quick.. What happend was disgusting but for all of you that saying id hang the cunt etc does that make you any better then them?

[Gary F]

We live in a sad sad world!
I think people on here with stupid opinions need to have a bit respect and keep them to themselfs!

I hope the two cunts die an agonising death I really do!

[wirralphil]

Originally Posted by milkman

We live in a sad sad world!
I think people on here with stupid opinions need to have a bit respect and keep them to themselfs!

I hope the two cunts die an agonising death I really do!

Ditto.