How do you tell for sure if a headgaskets gone? Now with photo!

Fil · 11-01-2010, 11:33 AM

Ford Ka 2001 on 90K, boils off all its water after 4 or 5 miles, fan is working, car has no heat working, this is in the frezzing cold conditions.

Ive not been able to find a leak ( due to wet and snow covered floors ) , just alot of steam coming from the water expansion / filler tank, leaving it empty.

Now the oil filler has the water / oil mayo substance, tho not excessive, just a smear really , compared to my mk3 fiesta that has loads but has been like that for years and hardly done in water!

I have a compression tester, tho will need a bit of guidence using it, if that can be used to diagnosed a headgasket?

Really i would like to prove its the head gasket before taking it apart ( barking up the wrong tree etc )

cheers

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**caz** · 11-01-2010, 11:37 AM

hmmmm...is there any of the gunk on the filler cap or dipstick? or oil in the water?

x

wirralphil · 11-01-2010, 11:37 AM

is the water pump working properly?

Fil · 11-01-2010, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wirralphil

is the water pump working properly?

good point, off in the cold to take a look!

Fil · 11-01-2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fil

Now the oil filler has the water / oil mayo substance, tho not excessive, just a smear really , compared to my mk3 fiesta that has loads but has been like that for years and hardly done in water!

I

Quote:

Originally Posted by **caz**

hmmmm...is there any of the gunk on the filler cap or dipstick? or oil in the water?

x

oh and nothing at all in the water tank

xHayleyx · 11-01-2010, 11:43 AM

milky/chalky oil filler cap, bluey coloured smoke pouring from exhaust.. loosing water..= headgasket

x

BM08 · 11-01-2010, 11:44 AM

My dad had his water pump go, and by the time he realised there was a big problem the engine was already stuffed.

wirralphil · 11-01-2010, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fil

good point, off in the cold to take a look!

Just take the return off the header tank when the engine is running, if the water comes out of the pipe the pump is ok.

Fil · 11-01-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wirralphil

Just take the return off the header tank when the engine is running, if the water comes out of the pipe the pump is ok.

sounds like a plan, cant even see the pump itself! its jam packed in the engine bay on the belt side

Fil · 11-01-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wirralphil

Just take the return off the header tank when the engine is running, if the water comes out of the pipe the pump is ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fil

sounds like a plan, cant even see the pump itself! its jam packed in the engine bay on the belt side

Water coming out, so pumps ok then i suspect?

Chip · 11-01-2010, 12:08 PM

Do the compression test on all 4 cylinders and post the values you get here, should be pretty obvious if the gasket has gone on the fire ring.
If its just gone between an oil way and a water way, then looking for fixed fluids is only option really.

wirralphil · 11-01-2010, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fil

Water coming out, so pumps ok then i suspect?

Yes.

Quote:

Run the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature. Tests done on a cold engine usually show lower readings. Remove the HT leads and take out all the spark plugs. The ignition system MUST then be disabled. If this isn't done it will continue to generate high tension voltages into the HT leads which will have nowhere to go with the plugs out. These high voltages will find another route to earth and can damage the ignition system or even the car's ECU. Unplug the low tension connections to the coil or to the distributor. If you aren't sure how to disable the ignition system on your own car then check with a dealer before you start. It is also good practise to unplug the fuel injectors or disable the fuel pump, especially on cars fitted with a catalytic convertor. This prevents unburned fuel getting into the exhaust system during the test. Screw the gauge into cylinder 1 and rest it somewhere you can see the dial while you crank the engine. Open the throttle fully either by pressing the accelerator or wedging the linkage open under the bonnet. If the throttle isn't open then air can't get into the cylinder and the readings will be far too low. Crank the engine until the gauge stops rising and count the revolutions while you do so. It should normally take no more than 10 engine revolutions (5 compression cycles) to get a full reading. You can count the cycles by watching the gauge too - each jump of the needle is one compression stroke. Write down the final reading and also make a mental note of how quickly the gauge rose on the first few cycles. Then just repeat for the other cylinders. Make sure that each cylinder reaches its highest reading after the same number of engine revolutions. If all readings are good then the test can end there. If any cylinders are low then a "wet" test can be done. This involves squirting a few ccs of oil into the cylinder and repeating the test. The oil will help seal bad rings and increase the reading but won't affect it if the problem lies in the valves or head gasket.

.Ross. · 11-01-2010, 12:12 PM

Get a Coolant pressure tester, Pump 5psi in and start the motor .. If the Pressure climbs off the bat, Chances are the HD has shit the bed.

Fil · 11-01-2010, 12:33 PM

just run the car for 10mins, with about 5 of that driving it and yep all the waters steaming out the water filler cap!

No blue smoke or smells of burnt oil?

Not signs of any leaks, and the water system is pressurised.

So think i was barking up the wrong tree with the head gasket?

Can it be anything to do with the £10 thremostate valve? being stck shut? simple but ive not looked at that?

dug112y · 11-01-2010, 01:50 PM

If the water system is pressurised either the gasket is fooked or theres a crack in head or block.....get the tools out mate heads coming off

martynhomer01 · 11-01-2010, 01:53 PM

check the wires to the reverse switch too. sometimes they break

.................sorry..........wrong discussion.....
...........
...........dont worry........i'll leave now

wirralphil · 11-01-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fil

Can it be anything to do with the £10 thremostate valve? being stck shut? simple but ive not looked at that?

Just check the pipe after the stat when the car gets upto temp as with this cold weather you will be able to feel if the thermostat is working.

Fil · 11-01-2010, 03:11 PM

well i took the stat off to have a look, and the gasket fell apart, so had to fit a new one anyway!

Still no good tho, just overheating?

martynhomer01 · 11-01-2010, 04:07 PM

i would say that the h/g gone if you have sludgy creamy stuff in the oil matey.

Fil · 11-01-2010, 04:10 PM

drained a bit of oil from the sump, all seems normal? black and oily

spinus · 11-01-2010, 04:16 PM

same thing happened to my sis in laws, kept boiling and throwing all the water out of the header tank no gunk in oil though,changed water pump thermostat and header cap all good now. that was a 2003 ka with 50,000 miles 1.3

BigChuck · 11-01-2010, 04:36 PM

maybe take it to a garage that has the tester for gasses in the water system? sorry can't remember the name of the test.

t4 and greys · 11-01-2010, 04:39 PM

just put it in nuetral and give it full throttle on the limiter for 10 mins

this way you can be 100% sure it will be the head gasket ,,,,,, well if the bottom end lasts !!!!

i always say best safe to be sorry ... at least this way its garanteed to show any weak spots

RUPERT THE BIG HAIRY BEAR · 11-01-2010, 04:51 PM

lmao i like that theory mr t4 and greys

wirralphil · 11-01-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martynhomer01

i would say that the h/g gone if you have sludgy creamy stuff in the oil matey.

Not all the time, some breathers block and you get the mayo.

Big Chuck it's called a Sniff test.

Fil · 11-01-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t4 and greys

just put it in nuetral and give it full throttle on the limiter for 10 mins

this way you can be 100% sure it will be the head gasket ,,,,,, well if the bottom end lasts !!!!

i always say best safe to be sorry ... at least this way its garanteed to show any weak spots

Ok back in 10mins....

AaronsKa · 11-01-2010, 05:13 PM

Id say its just a nakered headertank cap. my ka kept over heating with its zetec lump, replaced the cap and its not happend since!

.Ross. · 11-01-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronsKa

Id say its just a nakered headertank cap. my ka kept over heating with its zetec lump, replaced the cap and its not happend since!

Ha Ha Ha .... Maybe ... Its desinged to open at like 6psi or summit?

dug112y · 11-01-2010, 05:27 PM

did it freeze up solid at any time? was there anti freeze in it?

Fil · 11-01-2010, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dug112y

did it freeze up solid at any time? was there anti freeze in it?

dont think so, as it allways started and ran through all the snow and cold mornings,

as for anti freeze doubt it had any? hasnt been serviced for over 50k too!

BTW its not my car

Fil · 11-01-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronsKa

Id say its just a nakered headertank cap. my ka kept over heating with its zetec lump, replaced the cap and its not happend since!

Hmm ill take a look in a bit to whats fitted to it and the fiesta may swap them over and see what happens

dug112y · 11-01-2010, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fil

dont think so, as it allways started and ran through all the snow and cold mornings,

as for anti freeze doubt it had any? hasnt been serviced for over 50k too!

BTW its not my car

did your fingers in the water and taste it...you will know if it has anti freeze in

Fil · 11-01-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dug112y

did your fingers in the water and taste it...you will know if it has anti freeze in

Its had several refills in the past week, so the origianll stuff its long gone

Fil · 14-01-2010, 06:13 PM

Well it dont look like its gone, but the water ways are pretty blocked up in the gasket, what that cause the overheating in 3 - 4miles of driving then? i guess so.

T3ORA · 14-01-2010, 06:36 PM

right can i ask wot engine is in it, the HSC 1.3 thing

did you say that the heater was cold

did you check the heater valve or the stat

Fil · 14-01-2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3ORA

right can i ask wot engine is in it, the HSC 1.3 thing

did you say that the heater was cold

did you check the heater valve or the stat

1.3 endura

Quote:

Have changed the thermostat, and cold/heat valve.

pulled the water bottle return pipe off whilst engine is running, getting water returning, so pump is working.

poured water in the rad and it runs out the bottom, so not blocked.

Also fan is running.

Now there oil filler has a slight minimal bit of mayo'ness to it, but the cars allways only used for short journeys, drained some oil out and it looks reasonable, black and smells right!

swaped the water tank cap with a known working one.

T3ORA · 14-01-2010, 06:46 PM

my bad must read posts

head gasket then

Fil · 14-01-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3ORA

my bad must read posts

head gasket then

but cheers for looking

t4 and greys · 14-01-2010, 07:11 PM

take some pics of the bores for us and also pics of the cylinder head combustion chamber

personally put monet on a cmpression-water jacket blow( goosed headgasket)
should be able to tell if this is the case as hot steam cleans up the problem bore nicely
ie... the cylinder that is blown should be visibly cleaner than the others .....

also could very well be a cracked head or block if its had no antifreeze

just dont understand why people dont understand that water freezes and EXPANDS which cracks head /block etc !!!

so its a gasket or a crack (not the female variety either

)

good luck

might be worth finding out how much scrap value per tonne is locally imho

Fil · 14-01-2010, 07:15 PM

11-01-2010, 11:37 AM	#2
caz PassionFord Post Whore!! Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chelmsford, Essex Posts: 7,042 Rep Power: 10	hmmmm...is there any of the gunk on the filler cap or dipstick? or oil in the water? x __________________ member of the Daytime pf talk bollocks and random shite club #69 XBOX 360 Gamertag - KindaCrazyCaz

11-01-2010, 11:43 AM	#6
xHayleyx I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!! Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Croxley Green, watFORD Posts: 1,298 Rep Power: 4	milky/chalky oil filler cap, bluey coloured smoke pouring from exhaust.. loosing water..= headgasket x Last edited by xHayleyx; 11-01-2010 at 11:45 AM.

11-01-2010, 12:08 PM	#11
Chip * Sierra RS Custard * Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (3) Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 44,611 Rep Power: 51	Do the compression test on all 4 cylinders and post the values you get here, should be pretty obvious if the gasket has gone on the fire ring. If its just gone between an oil way and a water way, then looking for fixed fluids is only option really. __________________ Sometimes its more fun not to care if things make sense, and just do them anyway! Vauxhall Nova, Mid Engined, RWD, 457bhp, Autronic SM4, GT35R, Quaiffe ATB Diff 2.0 16v - DIY Specced, DIY Built, DIY Mapped, DIY Abused www.VauxSport.com

11-01-2010, 12:33 PM	#14
Fil ELASTIC BAND Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: May 2004 Location: rainham, essex Posts: 10,516 Rep Power: 18	just run the car for 10mins, with about 5 of that driving it and yep all the waters steaming out the water filler cap! No blue smoke or smells of burnt oil? Not signs of any leaks, and the water system is pressurised. So think i was barking up the wrong tree with the head gasket? Can it be anything to do with the £10 thremostate valve? being stck shut? simple but ive not looked at that? __________________ S4 gone replaced by a Navara ! www.trance.fm 31/3/12 ASOT 550 30/6/12 HD fest 25/8/12 SW4

11-01-2010, 01:50 PM	#15
dug112y passionford pro Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (1) Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lanarkshire,Scotland Posts: 1,394 Rep Power: 5	If the water system is pressurised either the gasket is fooked or theres a crack in head or block.....get the tools out mate heads coming off __________________ Never argue with an idiot,they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. TRACK FIESTA http://passionford.com/forum/restora...-new-pics.html

11-01-2010, 11:37 AM	#3
wirralphil PassionFord Post Whore!! Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wirral Posts: 6,694 Rep Power: 12	is the water pump working properly?

11-01-2010, 11:44 AM	#7
BM08 Professional Waffler Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: May 2004 Location: west midlands Posts: 25,368 Rep Power: 33	My dad had his water pump go, and by the time he realised there was a big problem the engine was already stuffed.

11-01-2010, 12:12 PM	#13
.Ross. Advanced PassionFord User 2008 Ford F-150 Trader Score: (2) Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 1,910 Rep Power: 4	Get a Coolant pressure tester, Pump 5psi in and start the motor .. If the Pressure climbs off the bat, Chances are the HD has shit the bed.

11-01-2010, 01:53 PM	#16
martynhomer01 Too many posts.. I need a life!! Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (1) Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: cheltenham Posts: 989 Rep Power: 3	check the wires to the reverse switch too. sometimes they break .................sorry..........wrong discussion..... ........... ...........dont worry........i'll leave now __________________ I WOULD RATHER PUSH MY FORD THAN DRIVE A VAUXHALL!!!! Last edited by martynhomer01; 11-01-2010 at 01:55 PM. Reason: put it in wrong discussion.......nob

11-01-2010, 03:11 PM	#18
Fil ELASTIC BAND Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: May 2004 Location: rainham, essex Posts: 10,516 Rep Power: 18	well i took the stat off to have a look, and the gasket fell apart, so had to fit a new one anyway! Still no good tho, just overheating? __________________ S4 gone replaced by a Navara ! www.trance.fm 31/3/12 ASOT 550 30/6/12 HD fest 25/8/12 SW4

11-01-2010, 04:07 PM	#19
martynhomer01 Too many posts.. I need a life!! Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (1) Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: cheltenham Posts: 989 Rep Power: 3	i would say that the h/g gone if you have sludgy creamy stuff in the oil matey. __________________ I WOULD RATHER PUSH MY FORD THAN DRIVE A VAUXHALL!!!!

11-01-2010, 04:10 PM	#20
Fil ELASTIC BAND Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: May 2004 Location: rainham, essex Posts: 10,516 Rep Power: 18	drained a bit of oil from the sump, all seems normal? black and oily __________________ S4 gone replaced by a Navara ! www.trance.fm 31/3/12 ASOT 550 30/6/12 HD fest 25/8/12 SW4 Last edited by Fil; 11-01-2010 at 04:11 PM.

11-01-2010, 04:16 PM	#21
spinus I'm Finding My Feet Here Now Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: birmingham Posts: 136 Rep Power: 7	same thing happened to my sis in laws, kept boiling and throwing all the water out of the header tank no gunk in oil though,changed water pump thermostat and header cap all good now. that was a 2003 ka with 50,000 miles 1.3

11-01-2010, 04:36 PM	#22
BigChuck I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!! Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: ayrshire Posts: 1,464 Rep Power: 7	maybe take it to a garage that has the tester for gasses in the water system? sorry can't remember the name of the test.

11-01-2010, 04:39 PM	#23
t4 and greys cosworth gimp Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (5) Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: rough on the streets Posts: 527 Rep Power: 4	just put it in nuetral and give it full throttle on the limiter for 10 mins this way you can be 100% sure it will be the head gasket ,,,,,, well if the bottom end lasts !!!! i always say best safe to be sorry ... at least this way its garanteed to show any weak spots

11-01-2010, 04:51 PM	#24
RUPERT THE BIG HAIRY BEAR Too many posts.. I need a life!! Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: under a fiesta ST near doncaster Posts: 787 Rep Power: 3	lmao i like that theory mr t4 and greys

11-01-2010, 05:13 PM	#27
AaronsKa Part of the Furniture Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 184 Rep Power: 7	Id say its just a nakered headertank cap. my ka kept over heating with its zetec lump, replaced the cap and its not happend since!

11-01-2010, 05:27 PM	#29
dug112y passionford pro Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (1) Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lanarkshire,Scotland Posts: 1,394 Rep Power: 5	did it freeze up solid at any time? was there anti freeze in it? __________________ Never argue with an idiot,they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. TRACK FIESTA http://passionford.com/forum/restora...-new-pics.html

14-01-2010, 06:13 PM	#34
Fil ELASTIC BAND Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: May 2004 Location: rainham, essex Posts: 10,516 Rep Power: 18	Well it dont look like its gone, but the water ways are pretty blocked up in the gasket, what that cause the overheating in 3 - 4miles of driving then? i guess so. __________________ S4 gone replaced by a Navara ! www.trance.fm 31/3/12 ASOT 550 30/6/12 HD fest 25/8/12 SW4

14-01-2010, 06:36 PM	#35
T3ORA I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!! Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: in the midlands Posts: 1,012 Rep Power: 6	right can i ask wot engine is in it, the HSC 1.3 thing did you say that the heater was cold did you check the heater valve or the stat __________________

14-01-2010, 06:46 PM	#37
T3ORA I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!! Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: in the midlands Posts: 1,012 Rep Power: 6	my bad must read posts head gasket then __________________

14-01-2010, 07:11 PM	#39
t4 and greys cosworth gimp Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (5) Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: rough on the streets Posts: 527 Rep Power: 4	take some pics of the bores for us and also pics of the cylinder head combustion chamber personally put monet on a cmpression-water jacket blow( goosed headgasket) should be able to tell if this is the case as hot steam cleans up the problem bore nicely ie... the cylinder that is blown should be visibly cleaner than the others ..... also could very well be a cracked head or block if its had no antifreeze just dont understand why people dont understand that water freezes and EXPANDS which cracks head /block etc !!! so its a gasket or a crack (not the female variety either ) good luck might be worth finding out how much scrap value per tonne is locally imho

14-01-2010, 07:15 PM	#40
Fil ELASTIC BAND Garage is empty, add now Trader Score: (0) Join Date: May 2004 Location: rainham, essex Posts: 10,516 Rep Power: 18	__________________ S4 gone replaced by a Navara ! www.trance.fm 31/3/12 ASOT 550 30/6/12 HD fest 25/8/12 SW4 Last edited by Fil; 14-01-2010 at 07:19 PM.

14-01-2010, 07:15 PM
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