DIESEL FIESTA tdci WONT START- HELP!

[mikerk]

hi took mine to a local diesel specialist with the codes off the siemens injectors for him to code them,he said the codes off the siemens had to many codes 20 NUMBERS APPROX he thought it had bosch which has approx 16 , he also said it wouldnt run unless the codes where input, but its running just lacking power so he was unsure what was going on ,each fiesta changed every year the egr is diffferent and air flow from monitor from turbo to inlet on the engine i bought from two 2005 engines.

If you were logged in, you wouldn't be seeing this ad! Register your free account today, or log in if you already have an account.

[brianbrew]

hi ill let you know on thursday as ive got a top mechanic calling with software and laptop to reprogramme the injectors i think these are bosch as it says bosch on the ecu so ill keep you informed and if i get this ford started after doing these injector seals etc

[James]

well, every 1.4 & 1.6 i've seen haven't needed injectors recoded even when replaced, and tbh all you've done is replaced seals, why would this require a laptop? it doesn't.

you said in your first message you never touched the tip except with a clean rag, so you've probably dislodged a tiny particle of carbon which has blocked a hole, the holes in these injectors are about the size of a bit of hair.

problem two is you've been cracking off the metel pipes to bleed the system, the reason EVERY manufacturer advises replacing these pipes EVERY time they are removed is to prevent metel swarf from the threads entering the system.

i'd suggest it just needs bleeding, buy a hand primer kit and bleed it all up, once you have nice clean fuel comming out the filter crank it over until it goes.

did you clean the injector seal seats in the head? loss of power after replacing injector seals will be one of two things, you've got dirt in the tip which distorts the spray pattern, poor running, loss of power etc. the other dirty seal seat in the head meaning you still don't get a tight seal.

[brianbrew]

Hi i just lent a haynes manual it says they only need recoding when a new set of injectors are used in the vechile but if the originals are used it doesnt need coding up ive checked the diesel and its running through everywhere and theres plenty of diesel coming through the high presure pipes i do remember there was a bit of rubber that fell into the hole nearest to the gearbox but tried to get it out and couldnt see it and the hole doesnt look blocked etc but not sure if this would not make it run i rang a mechanic who said the injectors have lost there programme to the injectors and need recoding and said he will bring his laptop with the correct software to talk to the ecu etc

[Ianw1958]

Hi,I am having exactly the same problem with my 1.4 fiesta, anyone managed to sort it out yet, starting to pull out hair now!

[AlexF]

Originally Posted by James

well, every 1.4 & 1.6 i've seen haven't needed injectors recoded even when replaced, and tbh all you've done is replaced seals, why would this require a laptop? it doesn't.

you said in your first message you never touched the tip except with a clean rag, so you've probably dislodged a tiny particle of carbon which has blocked a hole, the holes in these injectors are about the size of a bit of hair.

problem two is you've been cracking off the metel pipes to bleed the system, the reason EVERY manufacturer advises replacing these pipes EVERY time they are removed is to prevent metel swarf from the threads entering the system.

i'd suggest it just needs bleeding, buy a hand primer kit and bleed it all up, once you have nice clean fuel comming out the filter crank it over until it goes.

did you clean the injector seal seats in the head? loss of power after replacing injector seals will be one of two things, you've got dirt in the tip which distorts the spray pattern, poor running, loss of power etc. the other dirty seal seat in the head meaning you still don't get a tight seal.

At 1400plus Bar you won't have blocked the hole up!

And thats the same reason some manufactures require the HP pipes to be replaced - they are a crush seal and are one use items. But unless specifically specified then they don't HAVE to be replaced.

Alex

[MarkyMark]

if the injectors are changed they do need to be programmed to the pump.

[brianbrew]

ive had 3 mechanics look at the car after changing the injector seals and still no luck and now its in the ford dealers and even they cant get it started i think myself 1 of the injectors have gone down many people seem to have problems getting the car running again after changing theses seals why ? nobody seems to know? no even the dealers it must be something simple as there plenty of diesel?

[AlexF]

right start at the begining...

What seals did you replace and why did they need replacing?

Did you bleed the system or did you try and easy start/bump start?

Alex

[brianbrew]

ok i had diesel fumes in the car with a slight ticking i went to the ford dealers and they told m its the injector seals and told me to renew the high pressure pipes which i also got so i bought the 4 copper washers that go on the end of the injectors along with the 4 plastic spacers and the 4 ring rubbers that sit on top of the engine where the injector slides through put it all together and bleeded it through all diesel flow is perfect and very strong the car failed to start i double checked everything was all ok and it is so i tried a bit of easystart in the air pipe and it started but with clouds of white smoke then it cuts of there seems to be no diesel getting into the chambers and sounds like a injector has packed in

[AlexF]

OK its not just a single injector thats stopped working - you'd still get the engine started which one down or maybe even two injectors down.

The white smoke is vapourised diesel - which suggests although you got the engine to fire it wasn't running on all four cylinders. If diesel doesn't get hot enough to burn then it vapourises...

More questions:

When you say "diesel flow is perfect and very strong" how are you assessing this?

Are you 100% sure the injectors were put back in the same order as they came out (ie each cyl has the same injector in as before)?

Alex

[brianbrew]

hi yes each injector was put back in the same hole ive just had a call from the ford dealer today where the cars at he said hes getting low pressure from injector 4 (thats the injector nearest to the gearbox he said) its showing low pressure on the bar reading and is leaking back and putting strain on the other 3 injectors and he said the only way to see if it goes is to replace the injector also he said when the car ram on easystart when he tried that he said the oil light doesnt seem to be going out which was strange

[AlexF]

The system is called common rail - the fuel pressure fed to injector 4 is the same as the pressure fed to all the other injectors.

If by leaking back he means how much is "leak off" the injector has then an excessive amount does show a failing/failed injector which will need to be replaced and the new one coded to the ECU.

Are the injectors held in with clamps or do they screw into the head - I cant remember on the 1.6 lump...

Alex

[brianbrew]

hi i think he said it was reading 35 out of 1400 if i remember rightly? on the 4th injector (nearest to gearbox) and he said the 1st thing he would do was replace that injector but he quoted £300 to do it ? not to sure about the oil light that he said that wasnt going out when he had the car running on easystart ? where else can recode the injector cheaply if i myself get a injector with the same part number

[brianbrew]

also its bosch injectors and they have a clamp holding them in on the 1.6 tdci

[AlexF]

OK somthings not right here...

Removing and reinstalling the injectors should not kill them in anyway.

If the pressure is 35 instead 1400 and we are talking about bar here then its your fuel pump which is dead. You can't have low pressure on just one injector - its a common rail system, all the injectors are fed from the same rail at the same pressure.

This is what I spsected from the start as you can not run the pump to bleed the system bacuse they have very low draw on them. The correct way is to suck the fuel through from the injector via the leak off pipes.

If you run the pump dry, the lack of any fuel which is acting as a lubricant destorys the tiny clearances in the pump.

This would give you low injection pressures. Which is why the car wont start and if it does start on easy start it also explains the white smoke as the diesel wont combust as the fuel isnt comming out of the nozzel in a fine enough spray to burn.

It also makes sence its not one injector as a car will run with an injector down. It will not, without the correct pressure from the pump.

[D16PJM]

I was thinking about buying one of these for my wife to use due to the cheap tax insurance etc but i take it there not that good or reliable then?

Pete

[AlexF]

Like any modern diesel... they have injector, pump and turbo issues...

Gone are the days they are more reliable and cheaper to run than petrol engines.

Alex

[brianbrew]

ok mate are the diesel pumps coded on these i thought the diesel pump would be ok as with the plenty of diesel coming out of it through the pipes and the pressure is there he just kept saying theres somthing not right with the last cylinder 4th injector pressure low etc i was thinking could it be the small bit of rubber that fell into that holes that fell of the seal that sits on the top of the engine that the injector slides through ive asked but he said no as it will burn of it only goes ontop of the piston etc aslong as its metal should be ok but i thought it may be blocking it somewhere and building up presure and throwing it back to the others etc

[AlexF]

Don't know if they are coded... possibly.

Flow out of the pump is not a sure sign that it will generate pressure. 1400bar is a HUGE pressure - a knackered pump will still flow diesel without the injectors attached.

You cant block the injectors up - 200 bar will cut through 6" steel....

[brianbrew]

this car is becoming a pain now had enough of it now i may see another diesel garage and get them to see if they can test the diesel pump when it finnaly goes its going never having another diesel if it were a petrol car it would have been done long ago

[AlexF]

If I was working on this car I would be checking the following:

1) fuel rail pressure

It needs to be the right pressure when cranking and again when running. There are also control valves (usually in the pump or on the rail) to control the pressure in the rail which would be worth checking at the same time.

2) scope the injectors to check they are all opening and closing as they should be.

This rules out ECU and wiring faults to do with the injectors.

3) scope crank and cam posistion sensons.

Without timing information if wont inject at the right time.

4) measure the leak off from each injector

If all are equal then its not a faulty injector - as the car ran before it should run again!


Running a car up on easy start is in no way a method of diagnosis sadly!

Alex

[brianbrew]

do you do mobile mechanic work do u pass manchester anytime sounds like you know your stuff

[AlexF]

No I'm based in Newbury....

[brianbrew]

ok shame you didnt live down this end am going to see another diesel garage on thursday so ill let you know what they say and ill get them to check everything the pump pressure etc thanks for the help

[brianbrew]

ok mate i have a major update it was the 4th injector that was causing the problem ford wanted £300 for a new injector so i took the car back and fitted a second hand tested injector with same part number as the original and the car started straight away but the car keeps showing a fault on the diagnostic scanner p0100 & p0103 which says maf vaf mass flow circuit a malfunction & Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit High Input i tried resetting it and it comes back on now heres the worst part i drove the car 2 miles and all was great then when it warmed up you get clouds of white smoke coming out of the exhaust and backfire with the engine light on then if you leave the car to cool down say 30 mins then start it it starts straight away and no smoke untill you drive for about 2 miles then there comes the white smoke put scanner on and again Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit High Input shows up now i dont know if the air mass sensor has gone faulty or the new injector does need recoding back to the ecu ive checked all wiring to the sensor and arrround and all ok

[Ianw1958]

Hi all,
Just spent another joyless day trying to start my fiesta (fitted new injector seals) Had injectors tested ,O.K, checked volage at pump seems ok, fuel getting to injectors on cranking , told to check if voltage at injectors should be 0.5 v with ignition on ,none at all and nothing when cranking appears not to be getting signal ,any ideas please,am getting desperate. Thanks
Ian

[brianbrew]

mate take the glove box out and check every fuse as as theres 1 fuse for the injectors and engine conponets also is there any ecu lights on tryn borrow a hand held diagnostic tool see if any faults show up also have you tried a bit of easystart in the air intake wheile cranking over see if you can get it running that way or see if it runs then cuts out also the readings on the injector wires can read strange like mine did

[bally748]

Hi i'm new 2 this just looked at ur prob, #1 cyl is nearaest the g/box, the inj & pump do not need 2 b prog, we're the injectors diff 2 remove, if so, it's poss u may have twisted them at the top, causing internal damage to the internal electrics, then that would prob then lead 2 a non start situation, you may need 2 have them tested, hope this helps

[Ianw1958]

Cheers for the help, injectors checked out ok, rebuilt engine completely ,told wife would have to get pro in, lent thru window flicked the key and it started straight away engine light went out on second starting, running great, dont why or how but wasted 5days of my life on a 3 hour job.

[mozzy]

also i think it is a bad idea taking a fiesta 1.4 or 1.6 tdci to ford, i always took the work vans to a peugeot or citroen dealer when having engine issues on ours, they ALWAYS solved the problem straight away, ford mechanics know ford engines superbly but most kmay have the common sense to fit new parts etc but peugeott and citroen have mechanics trained specifically on HDI engines in most of there garages and as the modern diesel fords have peugeot hdi engines in then i e1.4 tdci 1.6 tdci, 2.0 tdci, and 2.2 tdci peugeot are known for good diesel engines, part of the reason for this is a good 70% of peugeots are diesel these days so there mechanics and techies get alot more experience on the above engines.

i was actually told to do this by fords head technician at brunel ford in bristol after we had a non starting fault they could not diagnose, peugeot took the fiesta in and had it running in 40 mins.

[brenpudsco]

i got a 2005 1.6 tdci geia focus and could smell some thing in the cab so i pulled over opend my bonnet and took the engine cover off and diesel had been spraed on the fire retardant thing macking it hevy so saged on top ov the engine wat a mess!!!!!!melted every where then i noticed air come from the injector the 4th one so i sead to the wife some thing is going on this engine a that very same day big clowd ov smoke.was going to do it my self but after reading on this site not to atempted some quotes was takin the piss but have fond a ford dealer that will do it for £150 all in so going to do it next week.the ford dealer is in neath / south wales .i will put a copy ov the reciept on a myspace and post adress after thay done it u can copy it and my b use it as a tool to get it cheaper at ur local ford by saying you no how mucht it cost to do b for as first thay wonted £600.hope this helps will post back next week

[simon jenkinson]

hi just wont to know if u can help me i put a belt on a 1.4 ford fiesta
diesel i did a full serivce on it and then i did the belt but wen i went to start it with the new belt on it will not go and yh it is time up right i just do not know wot to do with it i check the fuel so if u can plz it`s a driving schools car and he wonts it back

[simon jenkinson]

Originally Posted by pieterjan

Did the car still runs before you've changed the injector seals? Or was the problem before you've changed them?

hi can u help me i put a blet on a 1.4 d and now it will now run the timing is right fuel is coming up but it will not go i do not know wot do with it i need help it`s a driving schools car and they wont it back

[paul21]

Originally Posted by outlook31

Wonder if anyone could help.
Diesel fiesta wont start(1.4 TDCI 2004), i changed the injector seals and bled the system, ie bled pump, injector input pipes and injectors and the engine will not start. I got the dear wife to tow me round the block (before the snow fell) whilst i tried to get it to go in 2nd.
There is no sign of a start when i turn the engine over, its like i need to turn an electrical circuit on or something?
I am not normally a diesel man, any help on this would be great.

Kind regards
Wayne

i have 2004 mazda 2 and had problems starting in the mornings after spending over 2 thousand euros new pump injectors ect i was told i needed it solved nothing took it to a back street mchanic he told me he would put a none return valve on diesel line problem solved 25 euros the dealer i went to first told me it was the computer that told them what to do . one up for the humans

[skyrangerman]

I thought that the number 1 cylinder was at the cam belt end ? am I wrong?

Also should the lift pump in the tank be heard running briefly when the ignition is turned on, as I cannot hear mine even if i put my ear right to it from underneath the rear seats?

Regards
Jonathan