mains water experts? plumbers?

[James]

heres the prob i have: i have a pipe that comes out my concrete kitchen floor and goes up the wall to the imersion tank upstairs. ten years ago that was all taken out with central heating put in. but the pipework remained behind a false wall, now i'm redecorating the false wall has come down which has revealed a big damp patch around the pipework. i've chiseled out the concrete to expose the pipe and found a 90o elbow leaking which i've pulled off (literally) and replaced it with a 22mm compression stop end, which is also leaking. so i replaced that with one of those push-to-fit connectors, which again leaked so i've put on a new compression stop end with ptfe and still leaking!!!!!! now i'm wondering if the pipe isn't 22m but an imperial size? if so it's only a gants cock smaller but just enough to create a leak, it's a old house (built in 1800's) so it's anyones guess how old the pipework is under the floor. the other issue is the stop cock doesn't work, but is leaking! whos responsibility is this? it's out in the inspection hatch out in the back lane so i'm thinking local water company?

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[Rob..]

Stop valve outside should be down to water board to replace
anything past that to the house comes down to you i think

[fuzzy]

i have my main coming out my concrete floor to the stopcock. i had to turn off the water in the street to replace the leaking stopvalve but it was an old pipe and not a perfect fit as the copper pipe used in the old days was thicker grade copper i was told so the external size was different. its your responsability from within your boundary of your property .from within your fence or wall or edge of garden etc. if your pipe is copper its been replaced as it would have originally been lead but when it was replace who knows.

[James]

yeah it's deffo copper, just unsure on size, is there another size slightly smaller than 22mm?

[fuzzy]

im no plumber , im a joiner, but i did repair mine after seeking advice from plumbers on site. the common sizes of pipe are 15 and 22mm but in the old days i believe you got 3/4 inch which when taking account of the thicker copper used takes it up to slighly less than todays 22mm making it a loose fit in modern fittings. lots off plumbers hemp material wrapped around the pipe to take up the slack fixed mine .

[Steve the Plumber]

Originally Posted by James

yeah it's deffo copper, just unsure on size, is there another size slightly smaller than 22mm?

It will be a 3/4" diameter, the water board own the main stopcock in the road, but be careful as the waterboard may fit you a nice watermeter FOC, as they've got to get to the main stopcock!

[Steve the Plumber]

lots off plumbers hemp material wrapped around the pipe to take up the slack fixed mine .

If your going down that road, use a jointing compound aswell (boss white) and hemp!

[James]

is it possible to still get 3/4" fittings? B&Q didn't have nothing

[Steve the Plumber]

Originally Posted by James

is it possible to still get 3/4" fittings? B&Q didn't have nothing

Go to a proper plumbers merchant, and ask over the counter, they will have em!

[focusv8]

All you need is a 3/4 " olive, which will fit inside the 22mm stop end. Throw out the 22m olive.

Plumbers merchant or large B&Q will have them..

Stop tap is most likely local water co. problem, but just ring and report it they'll soon tell you.

It could be your's if it's a private road and a shared water service to properties built at the same time for the same owner.

3/4" mains water supply is unusual to a house, does it join to 1/2" in the floor?

.

[James]

yeah got a 3/4" olive today and another 22mm stopper from plumb-base put it together with ptfe tape wrapped on the threads cut off the end of copper pipe i had the union on yesterday and cleaner the copper up with sandpaper. tightened it until hand tight, then tightened it 1/4 a turn at a time until it stopped leaking. only it won't tighten anymore as theres no thread left and is still leaking. not much, one drop every five mins maybe, but still leaking.

i measured the external diameter of the pipe and it's 21.5mm.

[SelbyRST]

Will be 3/4 inch pipe, all you need is a 3/4 olive to put in your 22mm compression fitting, and the stop tap is your responibility if its the one inside your house, the bit thats leaking could just be the gland nut needing tightening up, but then sgain if it doesnt work you need to replace it. Turn the water of in the street first though lol .

[SelbyRST]

What make compression fittings you using? Try get a conex one, as some other tend to be abit crap sometimes. Or go into a local merchant, Is the a PTS (plumbing trade supplies) or plumbling etc near you? Could just take the pipe in.

[Sonic Boom]

I work for Severn Trent Water (Service & Mains Repair) we use Philmac Connectors which fit a size range 15-12's mainly for half inch copper 21-27's mainly for half inch lead and half inch cooper (they do fittings all the way up to 63mm). You can connect mdpe pipe in the otherend or endcap.
If you pm your address i'll send you a 15-21 and 21-27 with end caps in and it just a case of making sure the pipe goes over the rubber inside then tighting them up. They never leak as long as they are tight.
You can buy cheap copies of the philmac's from B&Q but here are generally shite!
As for the external stop tap the water board will be responsable for it as long as it located in a public road or footpath if it's in a private road and or there is a main controlling stop tap before yours to say the block of house's they may says it's your responsablity.
If you say it leaking they will more than likely come and relay the pipe and the stop tap from the main to your boundary of they might just fly a tap in.
Here's a photo to show what the philmac's look like (this is tap that had been flown in to half inch lead):


Cheers Rich

[fuzzy]

do they stop valves get protected by anything or are they just buried in the mud?

[Sonic Boom]

Originally Posted by fuzzy

do they stop valves get protected by anything or are they just buried in the mud?

We also fit a stop tap tube, top hat (what the lid sits on) and metal lid
Rich

[James]

pm'd

slight update, the 3/4" pipe isn't mains water after all, it's hot water supply.



quick sketch will hopfully explain easier!

now as you can see where the 22mm T's off into the kitchen upto the previosuly installed imersion it goes from 22 to a t off to 15 mm in the kitchen. i only have approx a inch of pipe out the end of the t piece to fit the philmac, will that be enough? if not i'm going to have to chisel up more of the floor and simply join the 3/4 straight to the 15mm for the kitchen supply.

easist option would be to take the pipe from the boiler through the wall to the kitchen sink, only the wall is 500mm thick !

[Sonic Boom]

Your probably going to need about 2 inches of pipe to conect the philmac to get it passed the rubber.
Can you take a photo?
Cheers Rich

[James]

[Sonic Boom]

Ye your gonna struggle there for enough length (don't we all)
You could always chop the T out and cap both the half inch an three quarter inch, you'd have to knock abit more concrete out though.
Rich

[James]

yeah but then i'd have no hot water in the kitchen.

i'd need to join the 3/4 to the 15mm somehow!!!!

anyone heard of plumbers paste?

or would a soldered 3/4 stop end be a easier option?

[J98 FYA]

i would try soldered 3/4 inch stop end

[Sonic Boom]

A soldered end cap would be the best option to be fair.
Rich

[bud-weis]

Originally Posted by Sonic Boom

I work for Severn Trent Water

Cheers Rich

Me too!! (well actually im a contractor but ive worked in STW for years now!)

[James]

Originally Posted by Sonic Boom

A soldered end cap would be the best option to be fair.
Rich

okie dokes, any tips on buying a blow torch? i've not got one and only soldered wires before....

[J98 FYA]

theres loads on the market but ur only use it once or u planning on diyin some pipes i got the rothenberger one thats quility in my eyes were bouts u in south west spose u could borrow if u just need to do that

[James]

thanks for the offer chap, i'm in penzance so miles away!

only be using it the once really so want something cheap as poss.

[J98 FYA]

no worrys!!! halfords i know halfords had a torch only 20.00 ok for the once i surpose

[focusv8]

If you've never used copper pipe and fittings before, then fitting a cap on an old 3/4" pipe that will probably have some water in it, in a hole, is not the place to learn.

Undo the stop end, put plenty of tape around the olive and tighten it up again, you don't need tape on the thread.

.

[James]

i'll get another olive and give it a go first then, cheers.

[Turboboy67]

For what your going to pay for a blowlamp, solder, flux and your time fannying around,

you might as well get a proper plumber in to do the job fella.

[fuzzy]

to right, thats 10 days so far and youve not even started. there will be water every where by now

[SelbyRST]

,If your soldering it , you have to make sure all the water is out the pipe or it wont work, suck it all out with a hoover.

If you want i could stick a olive or cap end for you in the post?

[James]

What kinda price would a plumber charge to sort this?