marco polo

iTrader: (1)

hi mate

there would if you done a group buy and sold it for right money

dont forget theres alot of top people that read passion ford but they dont post on here

theres also a few people that come on here that have got track cars or rally cars that wouldn't mind modifing their cars to take the wrc set up


personally i wouldn't do it to my road going 3dr but would do it to my escort cos thats a track car or will be when it's finished


marco

Miller 3

iTrader: (4)

I would love to make my own beam, What exactly would be needed and where from

foreigneRS

i would not want anything that uses the 7.5" diff as it is just too weak but the 9" is obviously too expensive. so it would have to be something else, but then you're talking extra cost with drive shafts, prop etc

GARETH T

metal from a metal supplier,,, a welder from a welding supplier, rose joints from a rose joint supplier

and someone who knows what hes doing

foreigneRS

some good geometry from the geometry shop would be a good start

markk

iTrader: (2)

if you look into the video when the surface gets really rough, the live axle cars are a lot more out of shape than the irs cars for definate.

but, i do bow down to 'mr escort' yes he can pedal it well and knows the forrests like the back of his hand

bbspolo

id be very intrested in a wrc cradel but it would have 2 be a exact copy! lets us know a price!

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

welsh humor gets me

buzznwood

I would agree with marco that for the right price there would probably be quite a lot of people interested, after all if people want to spend around 1000 just to reduce the swing angle on a some semi trailing arms, 2700 for the cradle links and hubs is a bargin.

I personally can't see any problem with it using the 7.5" rear diff either as while not a strong as the 9" it can still take a fair amount of power, besides you can make do with less power when your actually puting it down on the black stuff .

Maybe its because of the relative cheap cost of getting power from the YB, but the whole quality suspension side of the equation seems to be somewhat lacking in the ford scene IMO , you could use the same hubs for the front, make up some compression struts / track control arms some 9092939 anti roll bar mounting brackets and the blade anti roll bar to go with them and you'll have a good front setup to go with the rear that would work on 2wd and 4x4 cars.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

You would cry if I told you how much I got the GGR beam for Martin for - it was less than the price of a normal modified standard beam . At the time I didn't want it due to still being on Konis and not wanting to modify the boot floor so the exhaust could clear the square beam, otherwise I would have kept it for myself .

This is how good it looks now :

GARETH T

why no anti-roll bar on the back?

Mad Matt

iTrader: (2)

Yes I was asking which type of antiroll bar you had to use with the group A setup (standard one of straight type with drop links) ?

Nash

iTrader: (3)

I think those pics were taken before the car was totally finished, I could be wrong though. I have a feeling Martin runs a bladed ARB.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

It's a special invisible one, made out of the same material as the invisible exhaust as well .

Mad Matt

iTrader: (2)

This doesn't answer which type of rear antiroll bar you have to use on a rear group A assembly, ffs.

ian sibbert

Its a bladed type, bar and drop links....

like this

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I'm thinking of going the WRC route myself I Can't see why standard RWD shafts and bearing carriers can't be used in conjunction with the wrc cradle, is there a reason??

foreigneRS

i was very surprised that you didn't do anything more innovative in the first place considering the amount of work done on the rest of the car

sfhsport

Group a type/mag uprights usually take the transit wheel bearing and then you need group a hub and stub shaft to fit but still compatable with the 2wd rear drive shafts.

GARETH T

martin, ditch it all and make a double wishbone setup

ian sibbert

Nope....lol....as sfhsport says it'd be the hub that would take a bit of sorting. WRC upright bare castings are not that dear, Pete Doughty had a load made, if some ones buying a batch i'd certainly buy 4 for spares and future projects.

The billet variety sfhsport has on his car are very nice, but the cost i'd imagine would be steep due to the size of the ally billet needed.

I think from memory when I looked at buying the bare cast uprights they were in the order of £180 a piece. Bearings as has been said are abundant for these as they can be manufactured to fit the transit wheel bearings. The last consideration is the rear fixed steering arm which on the genuine car is a forgerd item (to keep the size down). I have seen others and the tend to be larger than the originals, not a problem so much on a track car as they run 18" wheels usually but (as on mine) we have to package the hubs, steering arms and brakes behind 15" wheels, I had little alternative but go for the 909 equipment.

Mine uses M18 x 1.5 l/hand and r/hand rose joints on the lateral links and its the easiest set-up to adjust ever, even faster i'd say than a double wishbone arrangement. The lateral links need to be a fine thread as stength and fune adjustment are vital.

The turrets in the shell will probably be the bit most people will have most fear of doing, but in reality once built on the bench and carefully marked out its like fitting turrets in any car (mk2 esc, sunbeam etc) and is in fact a pretty straight forward job.

The casing are again readily available, as they are grp'a' fronts with the appropriate inserts and top mounts, the top mounts could be done relatively cheap, they are concentric spephical mount bolted to a fixed turret top. I had mine for proflex suspension in very little time.

I'd agree with gareth and I have for sometime harboured desires to develop a double wishbone system, I think perhaps the constraining parameters might be length of travel, double wishbones tend to have less travel than in particular a rally car suspension. Again this might not be an issue for track and fast road people, but it does put doubt in my mind as i would be possibly wasting my time...lol....even that said, this could still be cheaper than the wrc cradle route as some equpment is available (off the shelf) in kit car land....

The last thought I have on the subject for now is people need to consider the cradle mounting arrangement to the shell, the cage is modified with machined bosses extending and recessing into the shell, i have seen some copies which rely purely on the shear strength of the fixing bolts, this is a definate no no, the cradle needs to be spigotted onto the shell to prevent it creeping and to avoid the bolts carrying all the lateral load.

If you are serious about keeping the cossie moving forward then it's positive way to radically re-write the ford design....

HTH

Ian

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...616b0b8b095fb0




mike - i heard a rumour that someone i know supplied you with martins beam? someone with a black 500... just wondered if it was true...?

foreigneRS

what about a de dion setup? many of the advantages of a beam axle without the weight, and again they are available off the shelf from the kit car world

i made a double wishbone arrangement for my mk1 escort but when i sold it the new owner took it off to put leak srpings and a beam axle back on all it needed was a geometry setup and some new coilovers to get it working right

maxrs16

any more pics or info on the wrc type diff cradle

Fastmaul

That would be good to know how much Adrenaline would charge to make something like that.

NEIL A

iTrader: (6)

What about the rear set up that Andyg makes sure it has custom hubs and can use standard shafts and different diffs.

ian sibbert

Micky The Finn

width martin.thats why a standard rwd shaft wont fit,its way to short.

Micky The Finn

a mag group A upright would never take a transit bearing.

your thinking of an alloy upright,and a ford one wont take a transit bearing,it will take a proper 5 bolt bearing,the copy ones take a transit bearing but they are bad quality and break so easily,the last pair of copy ones (i wont mention whos) were shocking,really crap,i would never risk them on my car.

maxrs16

thanks

Fastmaul

What about getting custom shafts made? will you still not be able to use the standard bearing carriers?

Tony Ryan

ahem ,i promise ive cleaned it since then .poor thing !

ian sibbert

The shafts would be longer, but that's no big shake really, I couldn't say if a grp'a' shaft with 2WD lobros would be sufficiently wide, i'm sure Tim would know the difference, standardising a hub would be the best thing, the ones Andy G made for the focus look up to the job IMO....the shafts can be shimmed to get the correct plunge so you'd still have plenty to play with....

Micky The Finn

why not re invent the wheel at the same time?

Fastmaul

Don't know, why not?
I only asked because the main reply was the shafts are too short. Great answer by you though.. really helps a whole lot.

Tony Ryan

If you look really closely into TF's last reply you will see he does have a point , maybe he didn't explain .....

All the permutations that 5 pages of this topic have tried to throw up are already available , designed, tested and developed by a well known motorsport company , namely Ford !
Trying to copy or emulate their parts by only using a bit here or a bit there will result in problems , not only in costs but results .
geometry is a very in depth topic ,but , the GpA & WRC cars had full extremes of droop and compression to cope with and both systems throw up compromises at their extremes , roadcars (and the occasional track day )doesnt need all this buggering about as with a decent set of dampers and base set up the car doesn't need lots of droop /compression , in fact a well sorted std steel rear axle is more than up to the job , trust me , ive been there !
If you want the expensive ford GpA parts so you can tick all the boxes , or a WRC cradle so you can tell youre mates , then fine , but it wont make your trip to the shops any quicker and wasn't designed to .
hope that helps .

Fastmaul

Thanks for the reply Tony I know Tim knows his shit and was hoping to get a nice in depth reply to help me and others that don't know anything about this stuff. I was just trying to figure out what else can be done. The problem here (in Yanky land) is we don't really have loads of rally cars readily available or breakers that cary this stuff.

Mad Matt

iTrader: (2)

After 5 pages all I can see is 2 camps about the group A setup :

- those who say it is a great solution, better than standard modified beams, can do the job nicely on a track car used sometimes on hillclimb races
- thos who say there isn't a large difference with standard-modified rear beams due to the fact the group a one is "only" a 6° setup.

At the end I still don't know...

markk

iTrader: (2)

but have a closer look at the differant people

those who compete - go for the pukka stuff, those who dont and drive road car/fast road mod the std stuff.

Benni

Can I ask, Could you not use a modified rear beam off a newer ford? Like a focus or a mondeo? I thought they where really good.

Benni.