The Sludge

Right, cards on table time here. Antilag, whats the benefits or downfalls of having this and whats the cost of it on average???

I understand they have to be a marham shaft, but as i am also led to believe chews up a significant amount of turbos.

Is this true?

Who runs antilag on here?

At what point does it become beneficial?

Thanks

Physio

I've got anti lag fitted on my evo but ive never used it

I think im abit worried that i might upset uncle lag!!


Boom boom tish!

The Sludge

Oh dear........

mad man lol

Stu.H

i had antilag on my ecu, whats the point really?

It destroys ya turbo and engine and not really needed anyway.

If you have a T4 + then possibly?

leecavturbo

its really not for us. just let the works rally teams worry about the cost.
oh and norris

markk

iTrader: (2)

GARETH T

I LOVE IT

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Anti-Lag won't really make a laggy turbo not laggy. For everyday driving it is shit and not great when you have servo-assisted brakes.

EssexMikeSi

iTrader: (3)

yea as christain said, if u have servo assisted brakes u wil find u have no brakes when using it. not good wen ya flying along showing off and then need to stop wen some goon pulls out on ya lol

saff_cossie

As above, I would be interested in knowing about this as the only thing I know is "destroy's turbos" comment. Apparently I have it but its not turned on in the ECU.

Rs Baz

put your head out of the window a shout

poom poom bud bud bang bang

it will save your turbo sludge

Stavros

Servo assistance isnt an issue on cossies as its electronic.

If you want it just for noise, or all your does is make noise, your a prick or youve been ripped off, in that order.

It doesnt really destroy engines and turbos to the degree people make out it does (i never had any issues in about 15k with a LOT of ALS use and turbo running 30psi held with no DV either).

Its pointless if all you mainly do is cane along in a straight line.

And most of all, if you never personally used it in the right way, you cant comment really.



I had ALS for years on my Cossie, and with it on it totally transforms the way it drives, more like a high revving big capacity V8 than a 2litre turbo.
Basically instant big power the second you touch the throttle, mainly as even on the overrun it was showing 23psi+.
Basically its awesome fun for caning round series's of bends where you on an off the throttle a lot, transforms the drive so something a lot more driveable and fun.
People like 205GTIs and shit for tight twisty on/off throttle driving partly due to the jumpy instant power which is what you need, and PROPER (ie not just a load of noise and no effect like most setups) ALS gives you that.

Amen

lukeytheduke

lmao

quality

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Pointless on a road car IMO unless you want sound effects for scaring school kids .


Yes I had it on my escort

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

First of all you need to understand TWO things and that is the difference between LAG and BOOST THRESHOLD. There is a HUGE misconception perpetuated by magazines and motoring journalists a like (just like "wastgegate chatter" ).

BOOST THRESHOLD is often misconstrued as LAG and ALS offers absolutely NO improvement on the BOOST THRESHOLD. So what is the difference?

BOOST THRESHOLD is the rpm point that the turbo starts to make positive boost. As rough examples on a Cossie, a T3 starts at around 2000rpm, T34 at 2500rpm and a T4 at around 3000rpm.

LAG is the boost drop-off between gears when you are WITHIN the BOOST THRESHOLD. i.e. the time it takes for the turbo to reach maximum boost again when another gear has been selected, and the turbo is within it's BOOST THRESHOLD. This is where ALS is designed to work. As you come OFF the throttle, it keeps the turbo spinning, so that when you reapply it, the boost is back almost INSTANTLY - effectively NO lag between gear-changes. That is the ONLY thing it does. The BOOST THRESHOLD does not change and in any way, shape or form. Also as soon as full throttle is used, the ALS is switched off, it is ONLY on when there is little or no throttle.

If used aggressively or for long periods of time, you can see EGTs of 950+°C and given that this is the point that a normal turbo usually falls apart into a molten mass if it sees continuous temps this high, this is why it is not a good idea for ALS on a standard turbo. The Maram 247 types can safely see 1050°C continuous use....

RichardPON

Agreed about that boost threshold thing.

e.g. Clarkson dumping an EVO FQ400 in 5th at 30 mph, foot flat down, and commenting on how "laggy" it is.

ALS is a proper cruise mod these days..... leave it to rally cars, kiddy racers..... and Mike

ballin

iTrader: (1)

I had it, good fun for fuckin around but i only really used it for fun, fucked my turbo and also could have been the reason for the exhaust valve dropping out and punching its way through to the sump.

so i would say it does kinda kill engines lol, fuckin loud and good fun tho

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Wasn't set up properly then, as mine has been on the car for 35,000 miles....

Disabled Account

Mike, ever thought of changing your name to "Peter Perfect" ?

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Tea spat on keyboard thanks Doug

Stavros

IMO anyone who says its pointless on a road car obv has never used ALS that was working properly, or never used their car in the correct way to make any use of it.

For me, personally, it was great on my 3dr.

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

...or their car didnt have excesive lag as it was engineered properly so didnt need it

Stavros

Oh dear

Even THE most "lag free" modern turbo car like the Mk5 Golf GTI turbo (fantastic car BTW, love it) still hasnt the response anywhere close to a proper ALS setup, never mind a T35d Cossie.

So, that comment is, as Jebus would say, bollocks

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

They are my middle names .

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

i always thought your middle name was 'cock toucher'

ah well

Anonymous

...i had it and i was paranoid it would set light to the car ...also makes the car feel slower as you dont drop boost between gear changes ....remember UNDERSEAL DOES NOT MIX WITH FIRE...leave it to the cocks (would put rainbird but he is classed under cock ) and rally drivers!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Obviously your shonky exhaust had leaks everywhere .

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Stavros,

I dont think in "your world" any car will be as good as yours.

Your set up probally did enhance the T4 slightely but at what cost ?

The T4 is a lag monster as we all know so anything is an improvement
but I dont think you will find its the be all and end all you are making out.

I have had real experience of setting up ALS on various cars and different
ecu types and the gains are minimal for the expense IMO for the average
fast road user.

Even I saw you dick around in cheltenham town centre years ago making
old ladies shit their pants, do you really need ALS for those quick gear changes !

Anonymous

...Mike alot of exhaust do...i once saw Steve Scotts Escos and it was flaming all down the car ....Anti lag is NOT good.

Stavros

Talking crap again Simon, my Cossie wasnt all that, never claimed it was, just an ordinary 400bhp spec engine in a stripped out caged up car.

I never had a T4, I had a T34.

I couldnt deal with a T4'd engine, not the powerband id like on a road driven car that not just about straight line blasts.

And on on-off throttle linked corners, where most cossies are poo and lil 205s etc are awesome, ALS made the drive a lot more enjoyable for ME.
Wouldnt say its fantastic value for money, and its not an improvment you can see on paper, but its was a totally massive drivability improvment.

And like said, even the most modern lag free performance turbo cars dont come close (im thinking of Mk5 Golf GTI turbo, and Focus ST, having driven them both and they as responsive as you can ever see really), they might spool up from nothing, but they not producing massive power the exact instant you touch the throttle, like you can with proper ALS.

No turbo setup can give 20psi+ off throttle without ALS, and therefore cant give it that moment you get on it...

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Stavros,

Not talking crap at all, its my opinion and you have yours.

I always thought your car was T4'd - Sorry for my mistake.

You are right, its difficult to get 20psi on the spot without ALS but the
engine isnt producing power at that point so air flow is minimal so the turbo is
not spinning as fast as say 5000 rpm under laod to produce the same pressure.
The gains through gear changes are minimal as you have said above
in other words.

That was my point

ballin

iTrader: (1)

quite possible, however i fail to grasp why a valve dropping out and a fucked turbo was down to ALS not being "set up properly"?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

You didn't have the correct spec turbo or valves to support ALS .

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Mike Rainbird,

I think ballin was on about "setup" not parts.


ballin,

Heat build up as a result of excesive ignition retard or bad leaning AFR can
destroy any and all components no matter what spec they are.

Also, on "the edge" ALS setups can kill an engine with too much use
causing gradual heat build up.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Same difference, he had it set up too aggressively for the parts that he had on the car....

ballin

iTrader: (1)

Ah right I see....

it was never used for long periods of time, more just a few seconds at a time very infrequently (yes I know )

ALS perhaps wasn't the exact cause of the failures, that was more likely down to a deeper routed problem (ie. AFR, ignition) but als possibly tipped it over the edge then?

89xr2

Mike, does your car run proper ALS like the rally cars or just a watered down road version of it?

Completely seperate note, Ballin, did you buy your Beemer of piston heads? As I saw it on there yesterday and wanted it! but obviously it was already sold

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

It's a proper Grp A strategy, but due to it being on a T4 and the fact that the bypass port in the throttle body is not extensively modified (just the two holes linked) as per the works cars, it is milder than these. However, I have still seen temps in excess of 1050°C at the Nurburgring .

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Great post Mike

I didn't know there was a difference between Lag and Boost threshold

Very well explained

Anonymous

Yep big up Harvey again