Stavros

Right, heres a thread that I think wont work, as about the only person who seems to know, wont say, but maybe other people know...

Ford Sierras are known for having shite amounts of steering angle.

But how do you improve that?

Cossies seem to have the least of all Sierras (id expect the 4x4s even more so) as they have rack limiters to stop wheels rubbing on various components.

Do all the others (base models, XRs, etc) have the same amount as each other? If not, what ones have most angle?

Do some have longer tie/track rods than others?

And what can be done to improve it? Does it hit any lock limiters on the front arms etc (like on 200SXs, where they remove n reweld them)?

What about aftermarket quick racks? Do they have more angle than standard? And if so, which has the most?

Understandably its not the most common subject on here, but id like to know, and dont know where the feck else to turn!

Cheers

Stavros

Interesting quite here, any truth in the ARB thing? Compression struts would sort that though wouldnt they?

Stavros

Some modded drift cars have well over 50degrees.



Standard S13s have 43degrees, which is a whole lot for a standard car, and I can easy hit the lock stops in mine while drifting.

Im sure ive read that Sierras (which i dont know) have under 30deg...

Ian M500COS

Good post steve

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Markk is your man for this

Stavros

It will be if I get any help

Indeed, but...

dojj

iTrader: (3)

ditching the arb for compression struts won't help as they will still be bits of metal poking at the same places wehre the arb was originaly, if anyhting because they are straighter they might even limit lock even more

what you would need to do is to move the whole wheel/hub/suspension assembly further out to give you the space to put the extra turn in for the wheel, and this ain't gonna be cheap or make the car handle any better as it'll tramline something chronic

other than putting custom suspension in place i can't see anyting other than spending loads of money to get what you want out of a sierra

Stavros

So the ARB deffo IS the limiting factor then?

On all other cars its relativley simple to get loads more lock.

scruffythefirst

Shorten the arm on the hub where the rack bolts and cut anything off that hits?

Stavros

Scruffy- Thats the thing, this thread is an info gatherer, ie what hits what, whats the limit of what, etc etc.
On all cars the rack will go further, its usually stops fitted to certain parts of the car (rack, arms, whatever) that stop it, for whatever reason.
And like said, just need longer tie/track rods to increase the angle providing there no stops to hit.

Cant just remove all stops tho, as youd simply hit the end of the notched section of the rack and lose all steering feel.

Certain theres a sensible money solution as-
A- There are on almost every other car in existance.
B- Markk's 3dr rallycar has LOADS of angle, but he dont seem to want to say exactly how its done.

scruffythefirst

Guess you need to find a sierra, unbolt the trackrod and take lots of pictures.

Stavros

Or, i hope somebody knows

Esp as id expect base/XR/RS ones to all be different.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

how can you have longer track rod ends?
the limit is the gearing in the rack, everytihng else is missing the point

as for the arb getting in the way, you also need to look at where the chassis rails are, because they will be the next limiting factor

what you want to do to achive greater lock is to move the pivot point of the tre closer to the hub, but thats going to be a bit difficult as you would need to have custom hubs made up to play around with to see which was the best AND you would have more load on the tre because it would be doing more work and the leverage owuld be less

lots of intresting points ocming up for sure, but you need to be able to get more lock before you think about what you are going to have to move in order for the wheels to avoid hittings certain parts of the rest of the car

scruffythefirst

I said that Shortening the hub arm shouldnt be too much effort, if anyones any good at welding cast iron.

Easiest way to find out would be to try it, sierra hubs and whole cars are cheap as chips, and there won't be huge differences in standard to xr/rs stuff.

foreigneRS

i was just reading about the LTI TXII (london cabs) having it's leaf spring suspension replaced by radius arms and coils and it says that they have nearly 90 degrees of lock

get one of them steve, weld the diff up and drop a decent motor in it and you'd have a proper weapon

Stavros

http://www.driftworks.com/catalog/pr...ame=suspension

Yup, london cabs are famed for mega lock.

S13s are pretty awesome for standard cars, and with simple mods 50deg is achievable, so im already sorted there.

But ive still got love for a twin T3 302 windsor powered sierra, and with 500lbft+ and full boost at 2300rpm, itd make SUCH a fun car.
But with gay steering angle there no point.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

but thats just making them let you have longer lock rather than making you gain more lock on their own isnt' it?

what you want is to be able to achive more lock in the first place, and if the rack is only going to give you, say, 30 degrees of lock then changing anything else sint going ot help

or is it?

MarK4

Steve do you reckon the tein tc arms make a significant difference to lock then? Was thinking about purchasing some Would that give my s13 around 50 degrees?

markk

iTrader: (2)

im going to go and gather you some pics guys, ive had to remove the setup from my car now , simply for the fact that the front cv joints wont take the angles i want to run them at



watch this space .................................................. ..............................

markk

iTrader: (2)

ok,

1st thing you have to do is change the front track, if you dont , all you will do is ..............................................hit the arb

loooks like we got that one

2nd, forget cosworth pas racks, the locks stops fook the job completely,

3rd - modify the existing steel xmember like so ...




you need to just drill two holes ( one on either side) not as i have done was development ) so 45 deg, 1.5" away from the std hole.

next select the rack, there many many variants of racks and arms/tre's

just take a look

tre's



and

steering arms



which items are the cosworth items

i mean - just how much lock do you want ???????????????????

its all in the track guys, you need to be seeing an increase of approx 3" across the front for this to work.

the racks are in all 2wd granadas, the lock 2 lock increases by 0.3 of a turn of the std wheel, from memory works out to 2.8 turns from lock 2 lock,

wheel selection is equally important, if you have the gayest offset going then your going to hinder yourself to start with, you may have to use spacers to sort your offset.

please dont tell me i need to tell you how to fit all this ?????


you may have to trim the section above the tca to enable full movement of the tca in its new position.



just off full lock

dojj

iTrader: (3)

cool

Stavros

Markk

Thanks a LOT Ive not had a good look yet as i just got in n rushing to get ready n go out, so im sure i will have some questions once i get a chance to look, but CHEERS already
If you got any more pics n info on it, go for it, its appreciated

No, they just part of it.

Need to cut off and reweld the stops,add as many spacers as you dare, and a few other bits n bobs.

Them on their own wont gain you feck all really as youl still hit the stops.

Thing is, do you NEED them? Ie how many times when drifting have you been at big angle but then span out as you was on FULL oppo lock (ie "im on the raaack lad" ) and needed more lock to recover it?

If its "all the time" then go for it.
If its "eh? what you mean?" then no
No point fucking with the car just to say you got 50deg of lock if you dont need it.

S13s have huge amounts of lock as std, and more than enough for a shithot driftcar, but if your either a top drifter, or like me and just way too agressive, you need em.

_DAN_

Fantastic read lads

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Mark:

scud

the 2.9 xr4x4 steering rack fits straight on and this will give you a tighter turning circle

_DAN_

bloody pictures have gone walkies

please re-host Mark

Stavros

Hopefully Jeek remembered to save them, i think i forgot

_DAN_

PM Sent

Mr C

iTrader: (2)

I just caught this thread I pestered Markk for info a while back in the search for more sierra lock, I now have a suitable rack, can mod the xmember and space the wheels for offset, not a problem. I havent seen the other pics Markk had up so would like to see the TREs etc too. There should be one less reason for a cosworth not to have a go at drifting I was regularly hitting the stops on simple roundabout drifts in my sapphire cossie, I told my mate who runs an S13 I was on the stops with my antics and he was impressed ... till he saw how crap the angles are I will get on it with the mods to Project Marshall

3dr wixsy

Mines done but still not as good as the S13's. Track from the front looks soooo much wider

GARETH T

steve just look into acumen angle

you could fab bottom arms to replace the TCA, and run no anti roll bar

cool work markk

dojj

iTrader: (3)

if he starts to play around with the rack then things could get intresting

what you realy need on the sierra is a space framed front end, that way you can get rid of the front chassis rails that limit the turning circle

markk

iTrader: (2)

the chassis rails dont limit the turn angle

Stavros

Thasa trouble, all that grief n still not as good as a std S13. And i got all the bits now to make my S13 even more than std.

Shame as i REALLY wanna make a decent Saff

Mr C

iTrader: (2)

Really? ah crap!
I feel an S14/15 coming on

Stavros

Same as anything tho, if you REALLY want to, and got the cash, you can make the steering angle anything you want..

But when the cash can be spent elsewhere its hard, its never a good feeling spending money on a car to make it be only as good as a car that wouldnt cost as much to buy in the first place...

Hard tho as I seriously wanna do it, jus see what the situation is at the time I guess...

Anonymous

easier to get lock on the sierra than to get a twin turbo windsor into the s13

dazzboyee1986

hi does anyone have the pics saved so i can see them please?!

toreto_sz

For more angel you can use spacer.I cut it but you can use spacers who going in.I cut of each part with 15 mm.

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Old thread revival. Thats a good steering lock you have there.