Big power cossie, which turbo/injection setup??

[princedanger]

Ah, my first delve into the world of the all knowing Passionford People! Have owned and thrashed my cossie for the last 10 years, and have always known pretty well how to go about upgrading and fixing it, however I now find myself at a crossroads, and thats where you guys come in. Hopefully you can offer some advice and opinions on the way forward..... Okay, here is the deal. Just dropped my new 200 block, and old head off at Julian Godfreys for big power machining work. The upshot of this should see me picking up a rally spec head, inc. big valves, and BD15's etc etc. This will be bolted onto the new 200 block which is being machined for Nickersil liners, oil squirt jets, long stud conversion etc, to be run with group A pistons, and arrows rods. Phew, that bit wasn't hard, but what I'm not sure about is how to go forward with the fuelling and turbo?? Many people seem to favour the T66 turbos with standard wastegate setup, but I've seen a fair few with the jap turbos on, ie GT30 or GT35. I know this means external wastegate systems in most cases, but what are the pros and cons with these turbos? Secondly, (and I think this will be something of an opinion based answer from most) is it worth shelling out for an 8 injector setup and a level 8 ecu, or should I go for enormous injectors ladelling the fuel in by the bucketload, and save up for one of the aftermarket ecu's which can be played with live?? (Autronic is one thats been recommended) Finally, I hear that SECS are doing their own setups with 8 injectors, and new ecu's. Does anybody have any info about this? I'm aiming for 500bhp+ In case its important, this is going in an '89 2wd saph, so still have standard ecu at the moment. Thanks for your help guys. Matt. Also, nearly forgot, can anyone explain to me about air injectors, and recommend a dealer for them. CheeRS

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[foreigneRS]

all sounds good matt.

can't advise you on the turbo issues, but can on the injectors and mangement.

if i were in your position, i would go for 4 x large injectors for sure. there's little benefit in going for 8, but there's many potential problems (like only 1 out of 2 working, needing a second fuel rail, blah, blah)

stu at motorsport developments has done a lot of work in getting large injectors to work with a l8 ecu, and i would definitely recomend that route with clode loop fuelling for off boost. you will require a live map at that stage of tune also. you can also have a l8 modded to run a coil pack for a healthier spark than dizzy shit.

other management options would be P8, autronic or pectel or SECS S8 or other more obscure options like:

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/products/tec3.html

http://rptune.eu.org/

to spend all of that money on maching and parts, and then not do the fuelling correctly would be foolish imo. 'ladelling it in by the bucketload' is a recipe for disaster.

whatever management you choose, mapping it will be the most crucial part of the whole process

air injectors are just a method of boost control. personally, with your plans, i would go for a standalone boost controller that could be used either with integral or external wastegate turbo's.

[princedanger]

Excellent info, thanks for the reply, have much to think about. Any reccommendations for stand alone boost controllers will be checked out by me over the next few weeks whilst engineering works are taking place

Will keep the post updated once I have made further purchases along these lines, and hopefully get some pics up here once shes all mapped up and back on the road.

Thanks again.

Matt.

[foreigneRS]

whether you go with a standalone boost controller depends on what management you decide to go with though, as some are capable of closed loop boost control (the best way imo as then the ecu has total control of everything).

some other ecu's have so called 'mappable boost' but all that does is try to control the boost valve to a certain opening that should give a certain boost. they don't take account of differing conditions, weakening actuator springs, leaks etc, etc, and could end up causing too much boost depending on if they operate a bleed on or bleed off boost control strategy.

i haven't used a standalone boost controller, but have heard that the turbosmart boost controller is good. beware of ones that use the bleed on control method that if they lose power or develop a fault can give too high boost.

certainly do keep us updated, it's definitely an interesting project.

[IMOL]

Prince danger

If you are aiming for 500hp i would rather go for the GT3076 double ball bearing. you can use a .63 housing or a .82.
.63 with some water injection can allmost muster 500hp and will be 20 or 30hp short. The .82 will exceed 500 hp.
However if you want to produce more than 550hp i would then go for a turbonetics cause of the thick shaft and strenght.

The Garret will spool faster than the turbonetics.

I currently run a GT3076 with a .63 housing with 7.5 comp bd 16 inlet bd 15 exh camms with a Rs 500 intercooler and at 5500 feet above sea level i have 0.5 bar at 2800rpm and full boost of up to 2 bar at 3900 rpm
Please bear in mind that at this altitude we have 300-400 rpm delay in spool up.

The .82 housing will give more lag but more hp.
There is a 1.06 housing rated at 565 hp too.

Make shure Julian gives you 8.5 comp pistons. It aids the spoolup and hp.
He runs it on his setup

[princedanger]

Thanks for the info, theres so much more to think about when you go from a stage 3 upwards.

Spoke to the people at Julian Godfreys yesterday, and they recommended an S60 turbo. Not familiar with this one, anybody else heard of it? To be honest, it'll probably be the summer before I have saved up for the turbo and new management system, so I'll only be running 420 bhp until then. In that time I should be a bloody expert on turbos and management systems, I'll be finding out as much as I can

What I do know is that once everything is in place, I'll be back at the POD, and looking for any track days around the south, so I'll be keeping my eyes on the site for more info.

Keep the info and opinions coming guys, all much appreciated.
Matt.