lockie

i know its been asked many times on here but i seem to find mixed reviews over the years.

seeings we are now in 2015 things have changed over the years & im looking for a good decent set up.

so far i have:

200 long studded block
new mahle pistons with valve cut outs
head is offf being ported
i have all the normal bits like 500 cooler, 3 bar, s/s exhaust etc...

but where do i go next?

im thinking 83lb seimes injectors

as for the cams atm i have a pair of bd10's fitted
whast the best set up for power with reduced lag
bd16 &??

regarding the inlet manifold i have a 4x4 set up atm, i was looking into hart manifolds but is this just a waste of money as people sem to just run a 14mm spacer?
again i see many spacers for sale from 10mm to 17mm, which would be better?

last but not least is the turbo!
my last set up had a tt t38 & i was more then happy with it, i can get hiold of a cr turbo t38, these dont have the anti surge housing or better exhaust housing that the tt one does but i have still seen people get over 500bhp on these turbos!

or do i go gt30??

mixed reviews again as i was thinking gt3071 with a .82 housing?
i have also seen tere is a .72 or .74 rear housing for the gt series turbo that enables the downopipe to bolt straight on (i like easy)

peoples opinions???

so to recap im looking for advice for:
cams
inlet
turbo


be gentle with me!

Caddyshack

I think the norm is inlet cam with std exhaust but take advice on that. Hart inlet flows better but std is not too bad on spacer.


Go for a Borg Warner twin scroll turbo AND Manifold as it will blow the GT30 in to the weeds for response....the Borgs are just soooo much newer and advanced technology but you need the twin scroll manifold to get the most out of it.


My 200 block is 100% std and made near 500 just with the correct size exhaust, correct twin scroll manifold and borg warner efr 7064 (there is now a smaller one that spools quicker and can still do over 500 bhp) My cams are std as is the head and pistons.


It was mapped by Mark Shead and he commented that it would have gone above the 469bhp if my RS500 cooler was better and if he trusted it more as I have std studs and gasket.


I cannot upload the map at the moment for some reason but my car is making over 300 bhp and 300 fltlb at just over 3500 revs and is at 1.5 bar around there too.

ajamesc

Bin the t38 and fit a gt30 far better turbo but I guess really it all comes down to who will map it and what spec they advise. Or if you have money to spend take the Borg route

lockie

Swim scroll Borg seems to be all the rage atm
Certainly sounds the way forward if the funds allowed

It's a mates engine/car that's being built up & it used to run std engine on bd10's, greens, t34.48 with the normal extras & ran a 12.5 at pod which is very good imo as my 4x4 cossie Rs turbo was nearer the 500bhp on txt t38 & ran in at 11.2 sec 1/4 mile

He was happy with how the power came in on the little t34 but after I melted the engine we have chosen to upgrade as we go hence the long studs, valve cut out & head porting.

Just don't want to end up building a better spec car that's a lag monster & runs longer time then it did before down the strip

I did see somewhere about running a bd14 inlet with a bd10 exhaust??

Caddyshack

The Twin Scroll Borg is the least laggy of all the options of any turbo. My little T34 was way more laggy than my Borg Warner.


You will need to take advice from a Tuner like Mark Shead about matching a set of cams to the turbo and the map.

MarK4

Caddyshack out of interest do you have a graph to look at. I am thinking of swapping my 9180 efr for a smaller more usable efr capable of around 500, looking at the 7163 at the moment.
Agree on the above comments a efr is the way to go but dont just look at the dyno sheet as the transient response is where these turbos really shine which isn't evident on a power graph

jontysafe

There`s certainly an old school way of doing 450bhp. It depends on how often you want to lift the bonnet and what the budget is IMHO


I would spend some money regardless on a decent new engine loom and go coilpack ignition at least.


Certainly if you have the budget a visit to Mark will pay dividends long term. But have no doubt you`d be looking at several thousand pounds for what would be a fantastic set up like caddyshack has.


The EFR7163 is a nice turbo but if you want to utilise it to it`s best you want a decent ECU with boost control direct to the on board solenoid. Then custom twin scroll manifold and ideally some ASNU or ID injectors.


TT38 and L8 ecu with some Siemens blacks (if you can find them)can be a great set up as well though, get it live mapped and away you go

Caddyshack

Here is the graph. The cooler was giving high intake temps so it was held back a bit. New vipec Ecu with loom and coil on plug. Rest is standard 200 block.

VERY important to note that my gearbox (4x4 MT75) had done 36,000 miles and seemed to be fine, I drove away on LOW boost and Mark said "you had better get a decent box on order now" I only drove in low boost (around 400 bhp and similar torque) and it broke within 200 miles. I was not aggressive with the box and did not launch it even once.

Caddyshack

Based on my research before parting with my cash I would 100% agree with all of the above.

costina

iTrader: (1)

All of the above is good sound advise.
You need to ask yourself what u want and budget. First thing is what management you require std stuff is good but as above a new loom is a must along with coilpack and lambda control. Aftermarket management will unlock more driveabilty and new car manners and is the best way to go with a borg turbo and manifold

Cheaper old school options are TT.T38.63 AB07 cam 83lb siemens will see over 450bhp with std management and a hart/as inlet. Be sure you have a good quality cooler spec r or proalloy. I use airtec which is good for my needs.

LAST OF ALL PICK A TUNER. DO IT ONCE DO IT RIGHT.........

Regards
Paul

turbotrev

Picking your tuner will play a big part mate, each tuner has there own routes that they prefer, type of mapping, turbo choice, management etc.

And again budget will come into play here as well....

Also depends on how you want the car to drive and what you want from it.

Cheers Paul

lockie

On visiting me Gibbs the other week he warned me off closed loop lamber set ups.

No doubt the engine will go to him as he's closest & has done all the machine work

I have been offered a gt3076 with a .63 t3 flange & Cosworth downpipe adaptor (direct fitment)
This should see 450-480bhp imo
I'm just concerned if this will surge??

Also why is nobody running 86lb Siemens injectors as these are available at Ł260 new where 83's are that 2nd hand

ajamesc

If you get surge or lag on a gt30 take it to a tuner who can map and spec a yb properly

cossynut2

I have the 83lb 890 cc Siemens injectors and so do quite a lot of other Cossy owners I know. Some people now run a more modern ecu set up which can take high impedence injectors where the L8 runs low impedence ones.
They work fine and are capable of over 500bhp.

Caddyshack

If you can afford Harvey Gibbs then go for the EFR Borg Warner. My friend had 500bhp on a 3076 with modern management and he said his 300bhp car was quicker in real use due to the laggy delivery.

ajamesc

I had an m.a.d 500bhp set up on a gt3076 and it was a very fast road car really good conversion. With using these turbos a lot of it must be cam choice head work c/r and mapping as I've seen so many people say gt30 or 35's are laggy and surge which is just not the case. They don't compare to modern Borg turbo and manifold set ups but are far better than old T range stuff if your after a higher bhp than say a t34 will do

Caddyshack

The odd thing is that Mark built the engine on the car I mentioned above. It was a 205 pug known as H20 COS. It may be that Mark only did some mapping based on what he was handed so maybe the spec was not his?

turbotrev

This is so true, totally agree with James.
It's nearly 2k just for and efr and manifold so again budget plays a big part. Then Mark will wanna map it on aftermarket management too so more cost again

Cheers Paul

Caddyshack

It does say "best" in the original subject line though.

Mark Shead

I think that Pug had a engine I biult for the pre owner of the engine and then I mapped it on a Autronic SM2.
It went well but does not compare to the EFR set up of today as you know

Mark

Caddyshack

Thanks Mark, I thought you may have been limited with what was presented to you. It is in Ireland now with another owner.

It made the power.

The recent owner said mine was much quicker.

Mark Shead

Yours will be faster as it comes on boost 1000rpm earlier and has no lag on gear change but you already know that

Mark