john_3.0s

OK so what am I missing here, £550 quid for a loom?!! there really isn't anything special about the cable or the way its put together. Surely any chimp (i.e. me) with a set of connectors a crimp tool, heat shrink and some braid can make one up for well under 200 quid in materials.

nixon_2wd

About everything.
They're very time consuming to both plan, lay out and produce. With proper equipment such as proper heat shrink / braid and connectors, wires and crimp tools required etc. it really adds up.

£550 isn't bad at all really.

Rod-Tarry

Course you can bud. Do your own Dentistry as well. Cant think why people ask me to make looms maybe my cat could do it. Also can you take on my 1000bhp conversion as well should be easy.

john_3.0s

I used to build wiring looms for the aerospace industry so with respect i've got a bit of a background in this sort of thing. With a bit of time and effort trust me it really isn't a complex loom looking at the one i've just taken out of my car. Dimensions are not mm critical and screening arrangements are simple as are the connectors. I just cant believe people will spend half a grand on a few bits of wire and some connectors, don't get me wrong I'm not knocking it, just find it hard to believe that's all.

nixon_2wd

Then you are a special case, hence you can not claim it's no big deal when you have that kind of a background.
Its the know-how that is expensive you know. I'm sure you will be able to make a great loom with those skills.

Caddyshack

I think you might have received a different response with that extra info.

BUT with £200 in materials it would be safe to allow £300 in cost of labour, if it took 1-2 days then they are not making all that much money and if you did one from scratch, had to locate the right fittings, measured it all up etc it could easily take that long.

Rod made my loom look like art work, I couldnt make it that good no matter how long I took and one loose connection can ruin your day when you are miles from home.

john_3.0s

well I always have been a special case even if someone hadn't done one before its not exactly complicated, just a case of being methodical, neat and double checking everything you have done. If you were doing a batch of these I reckon you could do 3 to 5 looms in a day no hassle and that's without any special test set etc just manually belling out the connections.

I still find it hard to see the 'value' in a built up loom over and above the components, so in my own mind my question remains - unless i've vastly underestimated the cost of the connectors but from what I have seen on ebay a set of sensor connectors is about 60 quid, as is the ECU connector. A small roll of Raychem say 60 quid (much better than the std automotive PVC stuff) and a few mtrs of screened say 60 quid, roll of heat shrink and some markers so with say 300 quid of materials and you'd have a load left over (other than the connectors) to do some other ones.

Its a shame some forum members assume 'by default' you know nothing about what your asking by offering unhelpful responses - says more to me about their own shortcomings than anything else.

I'll make up one for myself in the next few months as mine is looking a bit tired along with a fan and a pump loom and put the savings towards some other over priced cossie bits

cozzy jeff

iTrader: (4)

A bus driver made mine

john_3.0s

Nothing wrong with that

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

John
Sounds like you could have a sideline here
Make your own, refine any dimensions necessary, and make to order

It does sound as if the prices have Jumped up, I bought one a few yrs ago for £350.

Over £500 sounds steep to me as well.

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

i bet he did a better job the ford the fookin cowboys

cosworth wiring from the factory is a mess

Rod-Tarry

I was a senior designer at BAe. Didn't make but designed more than a few.
Each transition on an aircraft loom would have cost £15 + & many £1000 to produce so I suggest respectfully you may have built them but have not got a clue what they cost. There are £200 worth of parts in a YB loom that I produce including connectors & £400 a fair price. Built M.A.Development looms since I retired in 2007 & have seen whats produced out there even by so called tuners. You say with a bit of time & effort its simple totally agree all car looms are simple but they take time to produce a pro standard loom ( Ford looms are shocking if that's your standard maybe you can produce them cheaply. ) Without a drawing you guys that use to build them would not have a clue. When you have designed a few then you can come on here & tell me I don't know what im on about, until then keep quiet .

cozzy jeff

iTrader: (4)

He sure did

nixon_2wd

lol. shortcomings
good luck with your loom.

botters

iTrader: (2)

tell you what then op build me a loom and i will pay you £225 is that ok?

john_3.0s

I spent about the last 10 yrs designing aircraft installations, avionics equipment, conducting flight trials, EMC testing, modelling RF systems etc and some of that time was putting right some mods BAE did (a lot of subbies got rich of that job) but that's another story. I do know what materials cost its an important part of my job and I didn't suggest you didn't know what you were talking about. £400 sounds closer to the mark but my original question was based on the 500-550 that the looms on ebay are listed at. Still struggling to see it myself, guess we will agree to disagree. The bottom line I guess is that anything is worth what people are prepared to pay for it!

john_3.0s

No luck needed just common sense, bit of time and some very basic knowledge of electronics

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

im sure you will do a top job john ,and it be more satisfying building your own

i know if i had your expierience/knowledge i would do the same

opposite lock

iTrader: (3)

How is it you've called yourself a chimp when its what you do for a living.
Post up pics of your loom build will be good to see 'homemade' version.
Also, some companys funnily enough need a profit margain .

Someone of your background should know btter really, not having a dig but people will see the comments as being pretty cheeky when considering your not running a business moaning over £100 or so.

john_3.0s

yeah agreed, profit margin is important - but equally doing these in bulk (tho lets face it your never going to be building 100s of cossie looms a yr) enables you to drive down material costs etc so to me it 50/50.

I'm pulling the engine and box on mine this weekend so ill have a good look around the loom then on the bench, but experience tells me it would be nice to start from a fresh loom that's a known quantity rather than a 30yr old ford one.

Didn't mean to wind anyone up over my posts but I still maintain that there isn't anything complex in there just a few wires and some simple terminations and screens, no twin-ax, no double screens etc and I'd encourage anyone to have a go at building one so long as your methodical and double check everything as you go. And yes I am just a chimp with a soldering iron and a few crimp tools

Ridgey

iTrader: (5)

£100 is not to be sniffed at

The opening post stated a quote of £550, which is expensive, considering Rod suggests his are £400. Yet I see no one saying.....yes 550 is expensive you can get them for 400 As that would be helpful to the thread starter.

That's the internet I guess Helpful and unhelpful at the same time.
'Keyboard warriors' is the phrase that comes to mind....

boost mad

iTrader: (8)

everything one i have seen, including the ones ive bought have been under £400. Apart from the burton power ones which were £600 last time i looked through one of their mags lol

onslack

iTrader: (2)

I bought mine from a loom company for less than 400

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

what was the quality like mate?

onslack

iTrader: (2)

Quality was spot on buddy ,it's fully braided and heat shrunk! think my saph will fall apart before my loom does

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

probably the best mod on a cossie

any links or whats the company name mate ?

Harryh24

iTrader: (1)

interested to know the company as well for less than £400

onslack

iTrader: (2)

Cw Looms made mine

Toe Knee

iTrader: (2)

It's all relative at the end of the day, things like looms arnt sold in the thousands and probably not hundreds either.
Anything that is made in smaller quantities is always going to be more expensive that mass produced by a legit company as when you know your selling thousands of something you drop the price as you know your going to make it back in the numbers!!!

I work for a supercar company and when we do the early stages of a new car or low volume work the new panels/parts cost a lot more due to the lower volume plus company's have to add the cost of developing etc on top even though we get charged less for the same panels when it hits production stages.

Classic example is the gated baffled sumps, burtons were selling them for something like £150 a few years back yet someone else was making them and selling them for £50 and better quality as a sideline to their business.
Which ties in with what was said above about them charging £600 odd for a loom when you can get them elsewhere cheaper and just as good or more than likely better quality.
Chances are they had to buy a minimum quantity and don't sell a lot so have to make as much as they can per item sold whereas go striaght to the company making them and they will always do it cheaper

The Crocodile Hunter

Cw looms quoted me £350 to make a standard 2wd loom with connections for a group A coil.

That was may last year

Harryh24

iTrader: (1)

spoke to cw looms, £400 for a 2 wd standar loom 044 pump loom and twin fan loom!