boy-racer-1

i need some advise on what head bolts are ideal for a 205 block cosworth engine running over 400bhp other then taking the risk of getting it long studded?

cheers nick

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

I'm on ARP stud and nut kit with 400bhp and 412ftlb

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Standard

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Im on standard and well into the high 400s

Steve

bigluke200

iTrader: (3)

Std head bolts were fine on mine over 400

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

you can't long stud a 205 block
so std are your best option

1374lee

iTrader: (11)

Unless it's a genuine RS500 block ey Tony.

CheeRS.Lee.

Matt Lewis

iTrader: (2)

As Tony says standard

boy-racer-1

ok cheers for the advice everyone looks like ill be going for standard head bolts, just out of curiosity has anyone ever managed to long stud a 205 block? ive heard alot about it being hit and miss previously?

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

Nobody ever listens to poor Tony

Jasu

There have been some YBL-blocks (205) where you can use long bolts.
we are referring to the std 205 blokcs fitted to the production sierra 3 door and sapphire cosworth
there is insufficient waste casting in the base of the block to do this successfully

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Make sure the standard bolts you use are marked at the top KX1000

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

no longer available
we supply the victor reintz bolts now which are as good
avoid the other cheapies like the plague

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

As long as you have a bolt that is just as good then all is well

parrot

Are they not available from Ford?

costina

iTrader: (1)

Don't use arp stud and nut kit on a 2wd they crack the block...


So its std for me too



we supply the victor reintz bolts now which are as good
avoid the other cheapies like the plague

Which are?

sierrafun

i have arp and 205 now for 10000 miles no problem i think good ideal for 400 hp as a limit ..for above even 20 hp you need long studs ..i never seen 205 block with long studs ...that it will be very good because i have 2 blocks and no 200

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

there are further issue using these studs on a yb
as they're are not a stretch bolt you have to retorque them every time the engine has been upto temperature for the rest of it's life

sierrafun

the long studs do they need to bolt again and again with high tempatures ?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ive used ARP's on YB engines without a problem, its a fastener that very commonly gets used on other engines (Vauxhall XE in both N/A and turbo form for one) without any drama so its weird the way that people seem to consider them a problem on the YB.

Not sure if Tony's comment was meant as a joke or not, but they do stretch when torqued up, they just dont get taken past their point of elasticity so they shrink back down again when untorqued. They provide a good and lasting clamping pressure to the head for umpteen years of use in fact.

Given that the standard ones (if you buy a quality brand like Tony suggests) are well upto the job though, you may as well just go for those.

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

My mate took his head off, had ARP stud and nut kit. 3 studs had worked loose

sierrafun

my mechanic seen many times also 200 blocks cracked in the water ways .he says is the way to fit the bolts ..something with the oil ..i dont know exactly what he means ..

sierrafun

oh thats teribol how many miles after ?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Do you mean the studs or the nuts? As if you just mean that the studs were loose they sometimes unwind slightly when you take the nuts off, thats not a problem though, you just wind them back in before doing it back up when it goes back together if you re-use them.

Ive been using ARP stud and nuts in various engines, (for rod bolts too not just head ones) for 20 years and never had that problem, I would suspect an installation problem TBH

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Yeah it was the studs Chip. To be fair we don't know who fitted them etc, a couple didn't look straight either. So we just binned them and put standard bolts in

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The studs are only very lightly nipped up in the first place, utterly not a problem at all if once you undo the nuts the studs are loose, that doesnt imply there was any clamping problem at all while the nuts were still tight, just means that the nut has slightly turned the stud as you undid it.
Sounds like you are making a fuss over nothing TBH mate in that case.

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

I wasn't joking chip
ARP stud and nuts are not suitable for a yb
options are std k1000 , victor reinz or genuine long studs done by the pros
none of the top yb builders use them or recommend arp head studs in fact we all just laugh every time we see an engine with them in

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Yeah I got that from your previous post mate!

You know what Cossie paranoia is like

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yeah ive noticed that plenty of YB engine builders dont like them, just strange that the YB specifically has an issue when so many other iron block and ally head engines dont.

Have you any idea what about the YB causes the problems you are talking about? As like I mentioned they've been fine in engines I have built using them, in fact I have even re-used them and still not had an issue.

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

stop using them chip ffs
surely the fact that the top yb builders don't use them says it all
only people like yourself seem to think they are ok based on very little experience
the stretch bolt was a revolutionary design for alloy heads
studs were used in prehistoric times like the moris minor era
why people get so excited that they are throwing away a cosworth designed part specifically designed for the yb and replacing it with a morris minor head stud is beyond me
I'll start your debate and leave your brain to start up in analytical mode
The cosworth yb head has a thermal expansion rate of 17 thou form 20C to 90C

costina

iTrader: (1)

LOL Tony i like that last statement very true

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Lol, I dont really get involved in anything YB related anymore TBH mate so its all a bit acedemic other than just being interested in the reason that the YB seems to suffer when other engines dont.
What sort of failures have you actually seen though, is it just the issues with the block cracking or have you found that the studs get taken past their point of elasticity and hence stretch and dont recover like you have hinted in this thread?
I dont really see how that would happen with less than half a mm of expansion on a stud of 150mm or so, they can withstand that sort of expansion without going past their elastic limit after all, and once again, other iron block and alloy head engines work well on them.

Dont think im implying you are incorrect, I dont think that at all mate, in fact Im sure you know exactly what you are doing with the YB engine.
Im just interested in the details of the issues you've seen and why they have happened, as its counter intuitive to me that an 8740 steel alloy head stud could be forced to stretch for example when the thing doing so is an ally head, Ive seen the opposite happen in fact, ie the head being crushed.

costina

iTrader: (1)

This is what happens with arp studs in a coosie 205 block.....Treads fully clean tapped and blown out fiited as per arp's instructions too same as this block was still on its std bore only took head off due to shitty cometic gasket firing rings being too thick and allowing water and oil mix on rest of gasket.....

ClevoCapri

iTrader: (1)

My old 205 block did that on std bolts too.........

Are long studs strech bolts?

AndyPen

iTrader: (24)

Thanks for the info guys, I ran stud and nut kit for about 8 years from recollection with a 205 block at stage 3. Guess I was just lucky but when I took the block and head to be checked all was fine. Made me think now.

ClevoCapri

iTrader: (1)

If it was fine for 8 years why does it make you think now?

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Mines fine with them in and mine runs excessive boost... Although from hearing these stories I may consider outing them on the next rebuild.

Ade500

iTrader: (1)

Well, anybody want to get rid of their arp studs let me know please .......

costina

iTrader: (1)

Take This advice guys you may be lucky atm i was'nt and so many others too.

200 blocks can and will suffer too.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

You say it's fine but most of the time you don't notice until the head is removed and then there is a good chance there's a crack between the bolt holes to a water way mate. If that comes apart again and it's not cracked I would put standard bolts in tbh and if you can find someone that can do it in situ get the head and block doweled