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Ford Sierra / Sapphire / RS500 Cosworth This forum is for discussion of all things pertaining to the Ford Sierra Cosworth.

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Old 04-05-2012, 11:40 AM   #1
mk3cosproject
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Default similaritys between sierra and scorpio??

hi guys
just have a quick question to ask. i have converted a car to rwd using a scorpio floor pan which is wider then the sierras but is the suspension the same for example if i get a set of coilovers will they fit my car?? i know the rear cradle etc is made wider but for the likes of springs and shocks and hubs??
also is are the brakes the same on the scorpio cosworth as the sierra 2wd or 4wd cosworth??

any help is appreciated guys as i need to do something to get the softness out of the suspension and as you can imagine companys dont ususally stock coilovers for a scorpio
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:20 PM   #2
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The Scorpio is just an enlarged Sierra, in fact the Sierra's IRS was derived from the Granada rear beam, but that has a 7.5" diff whereas the Sierra's was 7" so far as I know the shocks etc but my theory the rear shocks should be transferable.

2WD Cosworth's and some late 2.0 models have the same 7.5" beam.

2WD Cosworth brakes are unique, they have fixed four pots at the front.

4x4's Cosworth however has a single piston sliding caliper affair which I am sure is just the same as the Scorpio.

Your rears however will be the same as a 4x4 Cosworth I should think, the caliper certainly is and possibly the disc size as well, that being 273MM vented rear discs.

The discs will not be interchangeable though, as the Scorpio will have 5 stud wheels!

I am not sure at all but I should think the shocks may be interchangeable, provided it's for the correct drive train, i.e. 4x4 or 2WD as they differ!

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Old 04-05-2012, 04:22 PM   #3
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mines 4 stud lol so im hoping there the same as i got a spare set. id be presuming from what your saying is that 2wd shocks should fit so which is very good news
much apreciated!!
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:37 PM   #4
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Fair enough I thought all Granada's were 5 stud (in fact I am sure certainly 24V is as I remember the alloys wheels quite clearly?)

Don't quote me on that but in theory I should think so, for example 2WD Cosworth shocks will fit another lesser 2WD model but not the other way round (4x4) as the shocks are thinner/thicker (can never remember which way lol) and vice versa.

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Old 04-05-2012, 04:40 PM   #5
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Martiesmarty thinks you have used a Granada.
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:43 PM   #6
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If the 4 stud Scorpio front shocks are the same as the Granada front shocks then 4x4 Sierra shocks will fit, I have used Escort Cosworth Shocks in my 24v Sierra frankencar.
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Old 04-05-2012, 08:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk22door View Post
Martiesmarty thinks you have used a Granada.
I just refer to them as Granadas, from what the OP says would mean he has a "Frog eye" which I still think would have 5 stud wheels?

Nevertheless the Scorpio still has the same underpinnings as a Granada.

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Old 04-05-2012, 08:36 PM   #8
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Frog eye scorpio.s.have 4 studs not 5 like the grannys.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:19 PM   #9
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The Granada mk3 suspension is almost completely the same as the Sierra. It's only the front and rear arms that are wider to give it a wider track than the Sierra. The front arb is also wider due to that reason. And the rear arms give more camber on the Sierra because of the higher ride height of the Granada. The brakes are also the same as on the Sierra.

On the froge-eye Scorpio the front suspension is completely different. It doesn't have the arb running along the rear, but it has A-type front arms and the arb fitting up front connecting to the struts through droplinks. The rear is also different from the Sierra, the beam is wider and the arms are also different and uses wider springs at the bottom (the top is the same diameter as before). On the later type frog-eye Scorpios the beam is completely different as they changed the way the diff was bolted to it. The rear brakes (calipers, discs, bearing carriers and hubs) on the 24v are all the same as the Cosworth 4x4. The normal versions use the smaller 253 mm discs.

Sierra Cosworth coilovers should fit the rear arms, but I'm not sure on the front.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:33 PM   #10
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As said...........
Scorpio stuff is specific, front end runs propper wishbones, not TCA`s
Rack is specific
hubs and struts are specific
rear axle is specific and heavy as fuck, but diffs are interchangeable!

Why anyone would use scorpio running gear is beyond me!
bits are fortunes to buy new and hard to get used stuff normally

The front struts are very long, depending on what you`ve put the inner wings into the bonnet may well not close

The rear end should take a sierra axle though

The sierra crossmember will bolt into the scorpio front chassis leg holes but the ARB egc is all no good so your fucked there too.

if it was me i`d put sierra front inner wings and chassis legs in it if you havent already welded scorpio ones on................

i built a sierra with scorpio stuff so know all about this lol

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Old 06-05-2012, 09:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk3cosproject View Post
hi guys
just have a quick question to ask. i have converted a car to rwd using a scorpio floor pan which is wider then the sierras but is the suspension the same for example if i get a set of coilovers will they fit my car?? i know the rear cradle etc is made wider but for the likes of springs and shocks and hubs??
also is are the brakes the same on the scorpio cosworth as the sierra 2wd or 4wd cosworth??

any help is appreciated guys as i need to do something to get the softness out of the suspension and as you can imagine companys dont ususally stock coilovers for a scorpio
Rear Hubs are same as sierra, vented same as vented cosworth rear disks same for calipers
obviousley solid is same as solid

Shocks and Springs are specific, due to suspension travel is massivley more than sierra ones! (front and back)

absolute ball ache if the donor car had a rear diff that looks different to the sierra rear mount
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:49 PM   #12
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Missing a rear hub for my spare 3dr beam, will four stud Granada replaces eXactly
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:27 AM   #13
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I always thought mk2/3 granny front suspension arms were the same.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:56 AM   #14
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First question
Did you use a Granada Scorpio floor pan or a fore Scorpio floor pan?
There are lots of differences between the two
And when you say floor pan, the rears are fairly simple but as for the fronts have you used the front strut tops as well?
This is where you will find problems, the Granada ones use a different top mount which won't quite fit the sierra shocks but i can't remember why not as I did mine about 7 years ago
The rest of the stuff, assuming you are using the Granada pan, all the sierra stuff will fit not a problem other than the strut tops
Don't worry about angles and stuff, the mounting points are the same
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn_ View Post
I always thought mk2/3 granny front suspension arms were the same.
+1 thats what I thought, the bushes are certainly the same for both and they will physically interchange, but perhaps by doing so you won't have the correct track?

Martin
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:16 PM   #16
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Click the image to open in full size.Fair enough I thought all Granada's were 5 stud

Last edited by robertdt99; 09-05-2012 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martysmartie View Post
+1 thats what I thought, the bushes are certainly the same for both and they will physically interchange, but perhaps by doing so you won't have the correct track?

Martin

Granada arms are about 1 to 1.5 cm longer. I fitted them on my drift Sierra to gain some camber. The Granada steering rack is comparable to that of the Sierra, therefore the steering joints are also longer on the Granada. With the Granada arms the track gets wider and the camber more negative.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:08 PM   #18
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Im sure ive had arms before and it has said sierra/granada on the box.
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:29 PM   #19
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hi guys thanks for the replys, i used the scorpio floor pan as i had two of the cars lying around at the time.
so the front coilovers will have to be custom made to fit?? i was thinking if i got sierra ones and used adjuastable top mounts on the front they would fit. as for diffs etc im happy with the hefty scorpio ones as the diff is viscous and the roll bars are big enough.
as for using the floor pan over the sierra it was a better option i tought due to the extra wide track, more room in the engine bay and the mountings for my 24v v6 where spot on. its also reinforced in places where the sierra was not, the front foot wells like the sierra competiton shells are double skinned etc.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:22 PM   #20
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1994 on Scorpio diffs don't fit a Sierra beam without trimming its case.

Brakes front and rear are basically Sierra cosworth 4x4 but front discs are a slightly different offset.
The beam will bolt onto a Sierra but it is 20 to 30 mm wider in its track.
Front hubs use bigger diameter struts than the 4x4 sierras.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:25 PM   #21
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A lot of experts here��

Can anyone say if Granada/Scorpio rear hubs or any other std Sierra hubs fit

For a 3dr beam
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:13 AM   #22
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Don't very much about the scorpio, but i have taken the rear(vented) calipers and
slider from a scorpio. This as an upgrade for the solid rears from my 3door. But the fookers won't fit. seems that the caliper carrier is offset is different by 3mm? So i have to fix the carries first...
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinus_2005 View Post
Don't very much about the scorpio, but i have taken the rear(vented) calipers and
slider from a scorpio. This as an upgrade for the solid rears from my 3door. But the fookers won't fit. seems that the caliper carrier is offset is different by 3mm? So i have to fix the carries first...
Maybe the Scorpio brakes are slightly different? But the Saph 4x4 brakes are certainly a straight swap!

Martin
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Old 09-05-2012, 04:25 PM   #24
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You need to swap the bearing carriers as that's the only difference between the 2
The standard ones have the lugs 10mm Lowe down than the cossie ones
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Old 09-05-2012, 04:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Virgo View Post
A lot of experts here��

Can anyone say if Granada/Scorpio rear hubs or any other std Sierra hubs fit

For a 3dr beam
Both Granada 24v and Scorpio 24v (94 on) rear hubs are the same as cosworth 3dr, 2wd and 4wd. Calipers though are the 4wd vented type and the Scorpio (94 on) has the same 4 stud vented rear discs as the 4wd cosworth. Fitted some Scorpio 24v (94 on) rear hubs, discs and calipers on my 3 door.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:46 PM   #26
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So instead of paying cossie vat on brake parts if i ask for scorpio brake parts will they be cheaper lol.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:09 PM   #27
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Quote:
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So instead of paying cossie vat on brake parts if i ask for scorpio brake parts will they be cheaper lol.
Yes lol there the same part, in the same way 2WD solid calipers are the same as Granada's/lesser model Sierra's.

The only unique decent things are the 2WD Cosworth 4 pots.

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Old 13-05-2012, 10:13 PM   #28
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Has anyone noticed how much bigger the diff case is on the late scorpio than the 2wd cossie?
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Old 13-05-2012, 10:44 PM   #29
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The casing webs are wider and by the looks of it there are extra ones. I had to grind back the webs that pass near the beam on the case side.
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Old 22-06-2014, 06:09 PM   #30
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Old thread but seems the info i'm looking for is off one of you lot, will 108mm Scorpio Cosworth rear shafts and stub axles fit in a Sierra with a 7.5"?
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Old 24-06-2014, 08:41 PM   #31
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Quote:
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Old thread but seems the info i'm looking for is off one of you lot, will 108mm Scorpio Cosworth rear shafts and stub axles fit in a Sierra with a 7.5"?
Only the 2wd cossie came with 108mm shafts
Everything else came with 100mm shafts including the 24v and 4wd cossies

If you have a full beam just swap them over
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Old 24-06-2014, 10:27 PM   #32
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The bugeye Scorpio did indeed have 108 mm flanges. I don't think the actual shafts will fit as they will be longer, but perhaps the CV joints and stub axles will fit the 2wd cossie.
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Old 25-06-2014, 07:26 AM   #33
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the scorpio 108 flanges are flat not lipped also iirc.
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Old 25-06-2014, 10:12 AM   #34
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Cheers for the info they have since finished on ebay, was looking for a mate
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Old 18-08-2014, 11:15 PM   #35
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hello,

do you think the 4x4 system from a 1992 scorpio 4x4 station wagon swapped into a 1992 sierra 2wd ?

so we have 2 cars :

'92 scorpio 4x4 - 2.9l engine
'92 sierra 2wd - 2.0l engine

we want : Sierra 4x4

is that possible ? and is ti a hard conversion to do ?
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Old 19-08-2014, 07:02 AM   #36
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The driveline itself is the same (engine, gearbox, front diff, front prop and front subframe). But the front suspension is different (tcas, hubs, shocks, arb and front driveshafts). The steering rack will probably be the same. The rear prop also won't fit because the Scorpio is longer and the Sierra prop will no longer fit because the 4x4 gearbox is longer than the 2wd.

Next to that the Sierra 4x4 shells have an extra bulge in the transmission tunnel for the transfer box and cut outs in the front chassis legs for the front driveshafts. Some say the cut outs are not needed, but I wonder why Ford would have put them in then...
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Old 19-08-2014, 09:29 AM   #37
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you need to find the front part of the 4wd sierra prop as i think the rear sections were all the same

there may be as much as 18 inches in difference between the lenght, but if you have a scoprio 2.9 4x4 then the front hubs are very much sought after by some folks
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Old 19-08-2014, 09:29 AM
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