cossiedad

Hi all. Am currently changing my head gasket ready for the new year, and have come to removing the head after stripping everything out the way. And what do I find? Instead of head bolts it appears I have a stud and nut kit fitted.

So question is this: Do I leave them in and reuse the stud and nut kit, or remove the studs and fit the new head bolts I have bought?

Have spoken to someone else in my rs group and they advised removing them and using the bolts. But I know the stud and nut kit is expensive and sold as an upgrade, so surely would be better in my mind.
Brief spec of engine is stage 2 so 500 cooler, yellows, hybrid T3, MSD chip.

cheeRS

parrot

Use standard head bolts, I had problems with ARP stud and nut kit.

Turbosimpsons

iTrader: (3)

standard head bolts, every time

langer

iTrader: (1)

What's the big deal with stud and nut kits? Why do people change them?

cossiedad

As asked above, what are the reasons for not liking the stud kit? I have no issue with taking advice, but I prefer to have an understanding so I can make an informed choice.
cheeRS

RS500/364

Normal crack the block were the bolts are between two and three piston

Chip

iTrader: (3)

On most engines ARP stud and nut is a really sensible upgrade, but on the YB there have been a few people with issues with cracking.

I personally have used them several times on YB engines and never had an issue though, so I guess its a matter of luck if you have issues or not.

I dont really see what about the stud makes it more likely to crack the block in the first place TBH, its the same diameter as the bolt after all so its not like you have to drill the block out larger to fit etc.

I'd be really inrerested to hear from someone with detailed info about why the failure happened as it doesnt make a great deal of sense to me TBH.

cossiedad

I had heard previously about issues with cracking the block but I thought this was people winding them in too far or over tightening them. For some reason I also thought they had a nut on the bottom in the sump but I think this is a long stud kit? Mine are definitely the same length as head bolts as one stud came out when I undid it instead of the nut.

nixon_2wd

People are too stupid to understand the meaning of the arp assy lube. This ensures constant friction over all the threads. Not using any lube will create tension to build up in concentrated areas and then crack. This is the main reason why people are cracking their blocks. Ive never had any blocks cracked with ARP and I have built several. Dont go around building engines if you dont know simple stuff like this.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes I can see why if you incorrectly install them you would get an issue, but providing they are wound into the block with appropriate torque only (its naff all, not got figure in front of me but only something like 20NM IIRC) I dont see why you are more likely to get a crack than with head bolts.

Maybe the block expands more than the stud and as such the shoulder of the stud ends up exerting force downwards onto the block face that a bolt doesnt?

Seems unlikely though TBH!

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

I have ARP stud and nut... No probs here on the first year of use... But was told to use the lube as Nixon above says..!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

You can always put a ball bearing underneath them (like is built into rs200 head studs) to get them to bottom out in the hole rather than on the thread too.

Steveboyslim on here has a nobble built onto the bottom of the vauxhall head studs he makes for that reason.

andrewg

i have seen more cracked blocks across bolt holes used with standard bolts not seen any yet with arp

so i guess its just your luck!

nixon_2wd

People also tend to torque ARPs to WM-spec, this is NOT how to do it!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

WM-spec?

Whats that, sorry not familiar with the term.

nixon_2wd

Workshop manual

Matt Baxter

iTrader: (37)

had them in my last engine and not had a problem with them and the new lump has them also and don't intend on changing them any time soon! famous last words lol

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Oh, you mean using the bolt settings on the studs?
lol, yeah not good.
cant imagine many people doing that though when the studs arrive with instructions.

langer

iTrader: (1)

So unless I've missed something here why are they better? How do they stop the block from cracking? I've had the head of my yb 3 times for various reasons, using new bolts each time and done countless others with no issues regarding cracking

carl/saff

I am sure if you leave room for bolt expansion you will be fine ........

Normally i rotate the stud back threw 180` to allow for expansion...

Headstuds Marked.



Mainstuds marked.



Hope that helps.

cheeRS Carl

chrisa3

iTrader: (1)

I have heard of blocks cracking with both ARP and standard head bolts. The likelyhood is that the holes for the head bolts/studs have not been cleaned before fitting. Any oil left in the bottom of the holes after removing the head is a no no. When you torque the bolts down, the oil will hydraulic and cause the block to crack. Best to blow them out with an air line or something to be 100%

I used standard bolts in mine and never had an issue so far. But then again, its a cossie, so it may well decide to let go when I least expect it

Chip

iTrader: (3)

From the point of view of squashing oil, thats where a stud with a protrusion at the end wins, because it wont do so.

But obviously its just a case of whoever is building the engine should be doing the basics like cleaning threads out anyway.

NoNoCos

Friend of mine fitted on his saff, never had problems...

I will fit ARP also on mine, but I'm also fitting ARP for main studs and rods, there is something to do with like for head stud (allow expansion) ?

Seems you did same with main studs carl/saff

carl/saff

Yep

Also use WRC headgasket .....block is decked 0.006 and head refaced 138.3 left to play with ......if i remember right...would have to check my files on the engine build.

ARP conrod bolts and conrod + pistons balanced `end to end`....

Runs very smooth and takes alot of daily abuse

NoNoCos

Ok. Thanks. I was knowing procedure for head studs, it's good to know there is also same for conrods and main studs, mean I will have some more job to do I already have it, but didn't open package to see if there was procedure inside :S

carl/saff

What i did was bin the arp lube....

Degreased ( clutch cleaner) all the nuts bolts washers and bolt holes(blew out with compressed air).....

Then used the arp torque setting and used a light amount of wd40 on threads under nuts and both sides of washers as lube.

Just my way and others may have different way......

cossiedad

To update where I am on this, my engine builder has looked at it and has said to use the studs again so I'll take his word for it. No doubt or question between head bolts or studs if you have a choice so he said. Obviously I cld use bolts but as I have the studs already his advice was to use them. And if fitted correctly, as mentioned above, there should be no worry of cracking the block.
Thanks for the input all, it seems to be a point of contention and maybe a certain amount of personal preference.
cheeRS

carl/saff

Ok bud......

What headgasket are you using ?

cossiedad

I have a YB0611 to go on it, which is what was on it before.
Another problem has been discovered though while having the head faced/skimmed - it's had a welded repair before which was not visable so got to evaluate options. I have a 2wd head spare but I've bought all the gaskets for a 4wd so will mean buying them again. Shitter as they are still in the packaging from Matt Lewis couple of weeks ago. Bit pissed off with it now tbh.
Off to see my engine builder tmrw to see it for myself so will take his advice on which to use.
cheeRS

Jasu

How much original head bolts holds power?
My engine have now 608hp ('99 block) , but I am fitting original RS500-turbo on it so power will drop.

Jasu

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