Noisey tappet??

[Cosmo]

How noisey can a nackered tappet get? I've got a noise on my 3dr which is really bothering me. When the car starts she sounds like a diesel - no biggy there all my cossies have due to the old piston slap. However this noise doesnt go away - it gets a lot better but never goes. Mainly under load i hear it, standard tick over the engine is lovely, even while only slight acceleration she's not too bad, coming down the rev range (when i lift off for example) she's quiet, even if the revs are high, just under load really. Was worried its bottom end, big ends etc, but been listening to it while someone reved the car (its apparent at the start of reving only under the greatest load i suppose) and i swear its coming from the back of the head (exhaust side) This made me think tappet, that and the noise seems to vibrate a lot faster than 2k when the cars running at 2k if that makes sense, surely bottom end noise would match the rev range? The noise is quite loud though but does sound more of a rattle from the head than from the bowles of the engine. Would a tappet be ok under light load, tick over but make a noise under load? Can they make a fair old racket when they go (almost diesel sound but more rattly) i'm really hoping it isnt bottom end!!!! I've done a vid on my phone but have no idea how to upload or how good its quality would be. Any thoughts guys?? Dont you just love cossies!

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[martysmartie]

Probably is tappets, what weight oil are you using? Has the car been off the road recently, normally the only cure is a new set but make sure there INA

Martin

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by martysmartie

Probably is tappets, what weight oil are you using? Has the car been off the road recently, normally the only cure is a new set but make sure there INA

Martin

The car has been off the road for 18months while i've been restoring the shell, she always was a bit rattly though even before i took it off the road, dont remember it this bad though.

Just been out in it again now, definately a rattling sound can hear it in the car under cceleration quite a bit, a mate in work had big ends gom on a prelude, he came out with me and says it sounds nothing like the noise his car experienced which has given me some hope!

Oil wise i'm using Silkolene Pro S - 10W 50, did an oil change and filter before putting it back on the road so its all new too.

[COCHYN]

INA lifters as above, otherwise possible little end.

[tabetha]

It is standard practice that the problem ones will be rear exhaust side, various reasons for this, they run hotter, no4 cylinder runs hotter, it's the "end" of the oil line where all the crap collects.
The last 2 sets of tappets I've seen fitted both had 1 noisy one within a thousand or so miles, both were INA, one duff one was replaced with BGA, and has been ok since.
I also used INA and also have the same problem, I have a new set of BGA to go in there.
tabetha

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by tabetha

It is standard practice that the problem ones will be rear exhaust side, various reasons for this, they run hotter, no4 cylinder runs hotter, it's the "end" of the oil line where all the crap collects.
The last 2 sets of tappets I've seen fitted both had 1 noisy one within a thousand or so miles, both were INA, one duff one was replaced with BGA, and has been ok since.
I also used INA and also have the same problem, I have a new set of BGA to go in there.
tabetha

I You'll have to excuse my stupidity mate, whats INA and BGA? am not familiar with these terms sorry. Are they makes or differing types of lifter? I'm assuming the BGA type are superior?

Can a knackered one be quiet on tick over but noisey under load, i was worried because i imagined a knackered lifter would be noisey all the time?

Is changing your own tappets an easy enough job, never done them on a cos before.

[Cosmo]

Been out in the car again today and i'm not convinced its tappets, got the engine nice and warm and the noise is still very diesel sounding, am not sure it is coming from the head??!

I tried the technique of taking a HT lead off 1 at a time and reving the engine, the noise didnt change it remained the same. Some people have hinted that if a big or little end was gone the noise should go away or reduce or change etc when the plug over that piston isnt firing? Is this a good test? I'm hoping so as like i say the noise was there just the same after each HT was removed and the car reved

Dont want to strip the engine appart and find it isnt the big/little ends! the mad thing is that the car drives great, pulls like a train and no smoke etc just it sounds a bit like a diesel under load.

[tabetha]

The easy way to tell if it is the big end/s is to stand next to the car, preferably with the front wheel on a paving slab, now blip the throttle with your hand on linkage, you will feel a slight knock if big ends, it will always knock just once when revved from idle each time.
Tappets can have a mind of their own, some noisy all the time, some noisy only at speed, some noisy only at idle.
Yes as you suspected INA and BGA are different makes, INA are the original German manufactured tappets, BGA is British Gasket Association, I've used their stuff a lot and it works.
The tappets are easy to do, if a bit long winded, but if not confident/competent get someone who is to help, as timing belt needs removing and re-tensioning afterwards, the tappets can actually be cleaned out as sometimes it is just a bit of carbonised crap stopping the ball seating in the tappet, this is what holds the pressure in so they don't compress, sometimes(rarely) the spring that pushes on the ball breaks.
The duff one should be easy to identify, push down on each one in turn(after cams removed) and the duff one will have zero resistance, then just a sucker on the end of a valve grinding dolly makes a perfect extraction tool, or magnet.
Once removed, you can use a drill bit to check the oil supply hole from the oil gallery, these are "tubes" cast into the head that can be seen either side, just make sure the hole is clear and unobstructed.
tabetha

[Cosmo]

When i rev the car from idle the engine rattles but only at the start of the rev, i'd say it "knocks" rapidly for a second and then as the load comes off the engine as the revs increase it quietens down, hard to explain but you only get the knock/rattle at the start of the rev when you blip the trottle linkage.

Its definately not just one "knock" more a deep rattle for a second or two.

Is my test removing the HT leads any indicator?

I've found a pictoral guide on here that shows how to do the lifters, think i could have a go at it. I'm just very worried its more sinister, its quite a loud noise, even more so when cold and never seems to go away fully. Mechanics (who know cosworths) who have heard it in the past tell me its psiton slap but that shouldnt be apparent when warm/hot - but that must be a similar sort of sound to make them say it in the first place i guess? In saying that i would have thought they'd have been able to spot big ends shot a mile off and its never been mentioned to me.

Tabetha - when you say i should feel the knock, do you mean physically through the block? Years ago when i used to have RS turbo's set up the mechanic i used to use had a glorified stethascope wired to set of headphones to listen for knock on the engine, would this technique help determine where the noise was coming from?

[opposite lock]

could be rebuild time by sounds of it. If you change your tappets is it a wise choice to replace new cams too ? i remember having to do this on my cvh few years ago , was lovely after .

[COLEYST200]

sorry to say this mate by my 3dr had the same nose and this was the out come of it

[opposite lock]

that dont look nice .

[tabetha]

You can use something to listen, but the best way would be to actually remove the cover and listen, a oily process but worth it.
Cams don't need replacing unless worn, but could possibly be reprofiled as a less expensive alternative, this would have the added benefit of using a shaft that is already work hardened.
Most likely when I take my engine apart shortly to do the 170,000+ bottom end I will most likely go solid follower from the 1.8 diesel engines, the bottom end is ok, but the oil control rings have gone, compression is still good though so they're ok, just has a drinking problem with oil!!
tabetha