kellyjones

Hi All

Just bought a Sapphire with the following mods, i dont fully understand tuning the cosworth, can someone let me have their views on the mods below and what could i do next? whats the stages in terms of injectors and bigger turbo v what bhp is to be had.


BBR 2 stage boost (switch on dash) 10 psi 270bhp 20 psi 290/300 bhp
K and N filter -31 actuacter 2 bar map, high lift cams/ g a head gasket/big exhaust!

Many thanks

Twellsie

iTrader: (1)

im not a big fan of variable boost, many options really mate depending how much power you want and how much you wanna spend, but basically next logical step would be, bigger turbo, bigger injectors and if its still on a 2wd intercooler, 4x4 or RS500 style cooler and a remap

AndyPen

iTrader: (24)

Am I missing something mate - have you got green injectors or are you squeezing 300 out of the yellows somehow? I'm not too sure on the variable option either.

Basically you can up the boost further by chipping again and adjusting the actuator or even upgrading the turbo. Get a pro to advise on this if I were you. Injector wise - Greens are next if you dont have them, then greys like Twellsie. The 2 bar map sensor will have to be upgraded to 3 bar then.

The higher the boost the higher the chance of the head gasket going. Various views on this but head bolts usually need sorting too.

Personally I would get advice from one of our many tuners on here and get a package deal if you really want to up the power. You can fit the turbo yourself first I guess. More power certainly costs more dosh!! Info on the cams would be useful too - they can have quite an influence.

Why not get it checked over first, see if there are any probs with what you have already??

Its a subject we can discuss all day so it will be interesting to see others views on this

kellyjones

Great, thanks!!

Makes sense, my first step will be taking it to one of the Tuners on this site (suggestions?) and getting the current mods qualified, the car runs 20psi on setting two, what could the approx bhp could that be? anyway after a check over and rolling road run i will look at fitting different injectors and maybe an upgraded turbo, so that in mind what bhp could this set up run and how would i adjust to the desired boost level (guessing 25 psi?) sorry for the basic questions!! any ideas on cost and suppliers? thanks Peter

kellyjones

PS
the current injectors look very yellow!

AndyPen

iTrader: (24)

Where are you based mate? There are some really knowledgeable people around so you don't need to travel the country too much to find them. Stage 3 is usually considered to be around the 330-350 bhp mark with greens. You can get 'off the shelf' chips to go with them. Actuator and Map sensor are usually the other changes... anyone else around to help /suggest ideas??

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

if you have 300bhp on yellows i'm not sure that's an accurate bhp figure, 270hp is normally the limit of yellow.

if you're wanting to go stage 3, you will need the following

siemens black's or Bosch greens (803's) injectors
rs500 style intercooler or you might get away with a 4x4 intercooler
3 map bar sensor
t34 turbo
-31 or -34 actuator
suitable chip

if you havent already, i suggest you do the following

rewire fuel pump with a direct feed from battery
fit a 044 fuel pump (although not essential)
fit a oil breather
possibly upgrade the head gasket for a grp a one and head bolts for arp items (although alot of people have different opinions)

also things to consider is upgrate the clutch and get some gauges to measure oil pressure etc.

all of the above is dependant on your car;s engine being in good nic, get it all checked over first

many a decent tuner use this site, Stu at MSD, Martin Reyland to name a few. other, MAD, harvey gibbs - the list goes on, where are you in the UK?

get some pics up of the car

AndyPen

iTrader: (24)

Good points

The fuel pump is often overlooked resulting in lean fueling at the top end - which can melt things!! I did run a standard one at nearly 450 bhp but changed it for safety. Wiring was completely renewed mind you and powerd from the battery as described, the existing wiring simply powered the relay to run it (Thanks to PJ Motorsport for that).

kellyjones

Hi, i am based in Middlsex i like the sound of.....

siemens black's or Bosch greens (803's) injectors
rs500 style intercooler or you might get away with a 4x4 intercooler
3 map bar sensor
t34 turbo
-31 or -34 actuator
suitable chip
Just need to find a local supplier/fitter! many thanks

tabetha

As said yellows start leaning of after around 280, though some have run a bit higher but not 300.
I think someone is telling you porkies about the car, there is no logical reason to cam it at this level at all.
At this time of year and that power a 4wd intercooler will be fine, but near the limit, but as said RS500 one MUCH better.
For the bits mentioned above you do NOT need a "fitter", they really are a doddle to do.
I would as said check the basis is ok though first, ie the engine, and change both the fuel filter and the wiring, both easy to do.
As a cheaper option you can get your T3 machined out(compressor housing) to take a large turbo escort trim wheel(T34) with the usual mods, ie 360 bearing step gap seal.
I would give the car a MEGA service everything you can first, as loads been bodged/not maintained unfortunately.
tabetha

foreigneRS

the 2 stage boost is very simple - it's just a switch to the power of the boost control valve (common misnamed the amal valve as it is made by a company called SCM in
Åmål in Sweden and people confuse this with the british company of Amal that used to produce carburettors and such in the olden days).

the boost control valve works by allowing boost from the compressor to reach the actuator or not (via a bleed off orifice). by altering the power to it, the ecu can allow the boost to be reduced if there is a problem with a sensor for example. the 2 stage boost control switch just replicates that function manually.

TurboShed

My first thought is also the cams, not needed obviously at this power level. The car may have had different stuff done to it in the past, then downgraded to the current setup.

Get some under bonnet pics up, might tell 1000 words

frog

290/300 bhp on standard T3 turbo sounds a little over-exaggerated at 20psi, even more so on yellows.

Our 2wd got 299.9 at a rolling road 18mths ago, that was with a T34 and 25 psi Ok, the rolling road doesn't sell anything so doesn't need to brag, but gives you an idea.
At the end of the day, numbers are just numbers, how does the car feel power-wise, I am plenty happy with our 2wd and couldn't care if that means it's 300 or 500bhp


I thought boost switches were used to select a different map Or is that also possible

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

all depends on how deep your pockets are..and how reliable you want the car to be.. what kind of power you want to run?

foreigneRS

that's not possible on any of the standard cosworth ecus greg, although they can be modified to run 2 different chips that can be switched over but it's very rare.

even on the pectel modified ecu's with the 12 position boost pot. do not run different maps as such. the controller is just a potentiometer with 12 preset positions with different resistances so that the ecu sees a different voltage across it as in input and can use that to set the output to the boost control valve (normally used with air injectors instead of the std. SCM valve).

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Those numbers are a nonsense, if its 290 on 20psi of boost, then its sure as hell not going to be 270 on only 10 IMHO!

Get it down to somewhere you trust and find out what you really have first before you start looking to modifiy it.

frog

I thought stu put chips in with larger memory, and used the switch to essentially tell the ecu program which "memory bank", e.g. which map to use.
I presume it requires a little more work in terms of piggy backing onto unused pins on the ECU connector, etc... Happy to be told I am on a different planet

foreigneRS

yes, that can be done but it's essentially running 2 chips and is not very common at all

kellyjones

Thanks for all the info, its put me on the right tracks, i think a bit of pub talk figures have been given to me! anyway thanks again....The car is great,never had any paintwork ect and seems very quick, i will post some pics later as i am having the whole car bought up to my standard (fussy bast,,,,) thanks for all your help.

AndyPen

iTrader: (24)

Have fun with it mate - thats what its all about. Getting a clearer picture of what you have already will really make sense - no need to rush it, as soon as you have power you'll want more anyway - ask anyone here

TurboShed

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

...thank fuk someone else said that....................

cossie500

I once watched a 3dr make 304bhp on yellows, wouldnt advise it though.

foreigneRS

not a problem to get 300 bhp from (4) yellows if your fuel system is in good working order and has had the pressure turned up at the rail and is properly mapped that way

kellyjones

Me agiain!

I just bought a new set of BOSCH GREEN 803 injectors (new 167 pounds) my question is the car apparently has a BBR 2 stage boost 10 psi /20psi set up, it has a small switch on the dash that indeed seems to swith between 10 and around 19psi, how does this work? is the switch liked into the chip installed into the ecu? or is it a boost controller (i.e 2 stage bleed valve type thing) my intention is to fit a 3 bar map sensor along with the new injectors and a stage three chip. i asume i need to get the current BBR conversion removed and start again? how is the boost controlled? is it by adusting the acuator arm?
Or ......could i fit a new chip/Injectors/map sensor and still run the bbr conversion, then just adjust the actator arm to run say 23psi?
Thanks Peter

cossie daz

hi there mate,
i had a 2stage type switch like that and it was cut into the amal valve wiring which just limited it as it cut the connection to it.
my advice would be to get on the phone to a tuner near you and have a chat with them,but you will need a different chip as the bbr chip will have different settings.get the whole thing set up properly with the correct bits and you will enjoy it!
From my own probs and fun with a 2wd cos is you get a boost controller or air injectors or some thing similar so it doesnt over boost.

hope this helps alittle