broos3

Hi,

I have just had the car off the road for winter. Its a 2wd on a G plate, and the ignition system is standard as far as i knoweg not a uprtated coil. I took afew things off for cleaning and painting etc. I also removed the old alarm system, not sure how well i have done this lol.

Anyway I tryed to start the engine tonight. And no joy. It turned great and the fuel pump ran but no spark. I checked for a spark by using a Stobe gun on the king lead. No spark. Then i tryed for voltage into the coil and we had 12v on cranking and ignition stage. This tells me we are ok up to this point?

So i removed the coil and fitted to my mates car and it worked fine. The king lead worked fine also.

There is a small capacitor in between the car loom and the coil, its black and also goes to earth. Its situated on the left hand screw that locates the coild bracket to the inner wing. What does it do and how does it work? Does it make and then collapes the voltage from the coil to allow the coil to transform to 25kvish?


Any other ideas?
Bruce

tabetha

The little black thing is merely a suprresor to stop radio interference it will run perfectly without it.
Did you disconnect any engine bits ie dizzy, etc for cleaning ?
12v feed is constant, interupted feed is negative, if fuel,pumpo primes then you have CSP signal, I would recheck all the connection associated with the igntion side, even firing order if been disturbed ?
tabetha

PiperDOHC

Was me helping last night,

The funny thing is, power is getting to the coil but not out of the coil, as we put the strobe gun on the king lead and tried cranking and there is no spark. Both the coil and king lead worked on my car.

Im not convinced it has anything to do with the firing order as you would still get power to the dizzy cap if that was the case.

Could it be anything to do with the phase sensor in the dizzy? The car has had a new cap and rotor arm.

As it is getting power to the coil it seems like the ECU isnt telling the coil to fire. Or does it work differently?

Any other ideas why the coil would not fire?

Cheers

broos3

I have not removed the dizzy. Just replaced the dizzy cap.

Should there be 12v on the green wire to the ignition module beside the strut top when ignition is on?

If the ignition module is not "on" we wont get a spark at the coil yes?

Bruce

tabetha

I am not saying that the firing order is wrongh just that if it were it would prevent it from starting, at best it would miss all over the place.
As you have eliminated the coil as the bad boy, It could well be the phase sensor, which is why I asked if anything had been disturbed, just make sure it is plugged in, and make sure it is the correct way, the UPPERMOST wire from the sensor in the dizzy itself goes to +.
If it is the old sort with brown insulation that cracks when you touch it it needs replacing, the insulation falls apart, but newer ones have blue red wires with far better insulation.
As you say the phase sensor sends a signal concerning phase which if not present will cause it not to fire.
You are defo doing the correct things, so jsut a few more checks should see it ok.
The polarity of the phase sensor is important.
tabetha

broos3

Is there a way to test the phase sensor? I will have a look and see what type is fitted to my car (old or New).

I suppose this could have been disconnected/damaged when fitting the new dizzy cap yeh?

Bruce

tabetha

If it is the old type insulation ones you only need to tap them and it falls away, and this is NOT any exaggeration they really are that bad.
All the phase are the same anyway on sierra so could always try your freinds ?
tabetha

broos3

So i could try the phase sensor off a DOHC 8v? I dont know much about the 8v, so where would i find it? The distributor again?

Bruce

broos3

What insulation are you talking about tabetha? The brown insulation on the wires? Or the black insulator on the receiver part of the sensor?

Heres a pic of mine if it helps?



Bruce

PiperDOHC

The DOHC 8v doesnt use a phase sensor. It doesnt even have a disrtibutor, only a cap and rotor arm. Maybe EFI pinto's have a phase sensor in the dizzy.

What we need to do is test both the phase sensor and ignition amp/module on the car. Is this possible?

If both of these are fine chances are its an immobiliser problem.

There was a wire spliced into the -ve side of the coil that was part of the alarm system. I wonder if this is needed to tell the ECU to fire the coil.

tabetha

Sorry I assumed as it was in what appeared to be the cossie section it was a cossie!!
tabetha

PiperDOHC

tabetha, bruces car is a cosworth, mine isnt, but we used it to test the coil and leads. Sorry for the confusion. Still looking how to check the amp/module and phase if you know how to?

Cheers

tabetha

I'm with you now!!, what a laugh.
I would go back to the basics like ECU feed, and make sure it is there as alarm has been removed and it started(trouble) since them.,
tabetha

broos3

We will next test if the ECU is getting a positive feed, also test the phase and crank sensor and the ignition module.

Its more likely to do with the alarm system, than a sensor failing when sat in a garage for 6 months. But hopefully we will find out. Thanks for the help uptill now tabetha.

Bruce

tabetha

NO probs, hope you get it sorted.
One thing I do wheever I have lots to do on my car ither than routine stuff is to try it after every step, that way if something is not right you know exactly which bit!!, the amount of times I have tried to start cars with no rotor arm is unbeleivable, usually someone says did you put a new one of these on, to which I reply of course then sneakily put it back on when they are not looking!!
tabetha

broos3

We tested the phase and crank sensors last night and they were good.

We also tested the module and it did not work. We had the ignition one and took the ecu pulg off and bridged 24 and 25 pins. This was ment to give the module a signal to spark the coil but the coil never produced a spark. So im thinking its the module now.

Anyone know whre i could get a new ignition module. Or would anyone let me have a shot of theres to diagnose this fault? lol

Bruce

tabetha

Ignition module is shared with the following cars,
COSWORTH, ESCY AND 3 DOOR, RS500, SAPPHY, 2WD, 4WD.
ALFA 164 TURBO 2.0i 88-92
FERRARI, 328 GTO, TESTAROSSA
FIAT ARGENTA 120 2000IE 83-85, CROMA(ALL) 2.0IE 85-93, , REGATA 100S IE 1585cc 86-90, TIPO(1.8) 16V SPORT + SPI 89-93, UNO TURBO(CAT) 85-94,
LANCIA DELTA 1600 IE86 ON, PRISMA 1600 IE 86-89, THEMA 2000 TURBO IE 85 ON.
if you can find any of these int he scrappies then you could try one of these but are about Ł30 ish new, I think.
tabetha

broos3

Cheers tabetha,

Thats some good info. I have sorted the problem though. The Green wires conector onto the module was slightly corroded and was slightly more open than the rest of them. So i cleaned it and closed the conector over abit and it sparked fine. It also ran fine, apart from the idle being abit high.

Thanks again

Bruce

tabetha

Set idle with ISCV connector DISCONNECTED to 850 rpm(no load) by means of the screw underneath the throttle housing front face, you CAN do this WITHOUT removing the inlet/i cooler pipe.
tabetha
nice to hear it is running.

broos3

Well it idles at about 1400. Would that be able to be adjusted down on the screw or will i need to clean/replace the ISCV?

Bruce

tabetha

If the ISCV is disconnected set the idle with the screw to 850rpm(no load).
tabetha