Ka98

Looking to turbocharge my standard Ka Engine. It's done over 106k so it'll probably need a rebuild anyway. Can anyone recommend a decent garage in the north east to do the job?

Joshy

I wouldent bother mate, really not worth it. i know it sounds different and interesting but ive been there and done that, and it wasent worth it

Ka98

Was thinking about a 1.6 or 1.8 Zetec transplant but i've been warned off them. The valves have a bad habit of falling into the cylinders and wrecking the engine.

Joshy

utter bollocks.. whoever told you that obviously hasent a clue about zetec engines.

they are perfectly reliable in both zetec E and zetec SE formats.

I would consider a zetec anyday

Hobomassiv

Agree so much here.

You could spend over a grand getting hte endura to 120bhp, or just fit a 2.0 zetec? then you have saved loads and can spend it on upgrading the brakes suspension and wheels to handle it.

gosa264

Just an idea, But if you want to keep your ka a 1.3 you could try the 1.3 turbo engine out the toyota starlet, I have no idea how good these are or how hard it would be to fit ( I dont think it will be straight forward though) but it could be an option for you

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

Stick a 1.7 puma engine in it and it will fly. Light engines too, so will handle well

gosa264

And if you dont fancy doing it yourself there's a company call pumaspeed or pumabuild, I cant remember of the top of my head, but they cant supply and fit the puma engine for you ill find there website tomorrow and post it for you

clarke5700

they are lying!!

clarke5700

i like thease engines/ cars a good friend has one ive mapped to 1.1bar any more and it will die on standard internals

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

PLEASE don't use either of these companies! They are bodge artists and cowboys!

gosa264

Oh sorry didnt realise, Ive never seen there work so I cant really coment, just seen the on the web and thought it might help, sorry again.

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

Nothing to be sorry about mate, just letting him know.

gosa264

Cheers mate I would of felt really bad if he listened to me and ended up getting riped off, cheers again mate

Fil

these a few used turbo kits on ebay

tho not much of a kit, more a manifold and turbo
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Ka-Tu...item1c1fbf4a0d

this one looks a better buy,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Fiest...item1c1fc36719

as it contains

Brand new garrett gt t2 turbo (fast spool)
All manifolds and downpipe
Throttle bodies with fuel rail(complete) and turbo adaptor box
Collins adjustable acuator
Chiped ecu to run kit
Boost pipes
Intercooler

IceCage

both turbo sizes are too big, read below. And for mainfold - turbo must be as close to the engine as possible, every inch of tube means gas flow, this risk of compression etc. leading to unexpected issues specially during rapid change of performance (WOT). There is good reason why that guy sold that piece. Check this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX-Uc-63X3w&feature=fvst to see how the mainfold should look like idealy.

UPDATED UPDATED UPDATED

Hello, I am actually planing to do same thing, to make really sharp 1.3 KA, without engine replacement.
I actually made some math around turbo's and so (follow link http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/glossa...orDutyCycle=85) - but you can't use it as it is.

There we got many problems of 1.3 engine we have to think of in theory first to get some reliable figures and to start planing effective, working turbo.

1) problem number one is VE (volumetric efficiency) of endura-e 1.3
And truth is, it's terrible, just terrible, and all over again - terrible. Power peaks on 5000 revs and there system is already working on poor 57% efficiency - so with turbo it wont go better. And this is counted acc. to the 0*C temp comming to inlet of engine, so what will happen on hot summer day? Nothing nice.




You have to upgrade the flow first: def. replace original exhaust and use 2"-2.5" to be sure that backpressure fm exhaust will be eliminated, leaving it on turbo only. Different cam and better vents will be needed too. Anyway, we can start without those and see where we can pump the lump.

Basic assumption is that we need engine to pressurize tubine of turbocharger enough to get compressor to desired pressure (either 8 to 14 psi without upgrade of guts would work, at least for short performance periods).
So reality is, that with quickly dropping VE of endura-e we should focus on low rev band - 1500 to 5000.

Next: hard reality: when the turbo starts it's spool (pressure production).

Reliable is to take turbine map form Garrett and read it: fat red line for GT1544 starts about 4.18 lb/min and there we can expect ratio 1.23 (3.3 PSI)
When our great endura-e reaches 4.18 lb/min? approx. on 2750 revs! Good. Bad thing is this is just theory, so we will have a bit less PSI in system. And of course, this is all about first WOT strike after engine was some time iddle, once system starts to produce some pressure constantly, our lb/min of air gets higher and so the reaction of turbo comes earlier, speaking about revs: it has some elisticity ; lets assume that we keeps 2750 revs, while presure in intake system is then 3.3 PSI, so flow is around 4.6 lb/min, but that is equal 3200 revs with 0 PSI on intake side


And what about bigger turbo?
http://www.turbo-garage.com.ua/garag...rett_turbo.pdf
Let's check GT2052 starts to work around 7 lbs/min with 1.25 ratio (3.6 PSI)
I'd say you will have big problems to spool it: it' would go from 4000 revs in theory... totally pointless for obstructed endura. And then you will have to keep it on 3750 revs or pressure stalls again. Even if you would got up to 6000 revs, you will have no big fun about it: you will fight lowish VE of endura there: more RPM, less VE (I blame intake and cams-vents timing actualy).

So optimum is GT1544 for sure. However, with that turbo puffing into our block, we will reach much better lb/min flow so we will need it's wastegate to do a lot of work. With 15 PSI target we will need wastegate to open around 3000 revs of constant operation, around power top (5000 revs) we will need wastegate to flush almost 5.5 lbs/min of air. Or maybe not, turbine maps are quite relative But as GT1544 is used even in 2.0 engines, it should be ok anyway.

IceCage

But I don't say don't do it.
I say do it in a way which will improve what is already present most optimal way.

Simply get used to the fact, that 1.3 endura-e is more like diesel engine then hi-rev petrol it's a city ride style.

Project_Bonus

I had a Glanza 1.3 turbo and the engines are brilliant and extremely tuneable if you know where to look for parts.

In standard guise they come with 130bhp at 0.65bar, mine was running a ported turbo, fuel cut defender, adjuatable actuator and uprated intercooler. That saw 157bhp at 1.1bar on a graph and it use to shit on Type-r and audi S3's.

I cant imagine it would actually be that difficult to put in a ka as the space is practically identical and the layout is virtually the same just some custom mounts and driveshafts and you'd be away.

Personally with £1000 you could have the engine and enough goodies for 150-160bhp and they are very reliable as long as you service them regularly.

IceCage

man that sounds very good. only thing: I can't put other engine inside but it look ok to me to use some things from Glanza Turbo to pump Endura...

Can you please check what turbo Glanza uses and as well ignition/injection, can you make few photos under hood for us..
and maybe what brand, size of intercooler you have?

Bailes1992

Guy on ZSOC turboed one of these lumps, was only something like 5psi but was running 120bhp!

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

Absolute bollocks as everyone else has said. There is fuck all wrong with those engines mate, that's the way to go.

Project_Bonus

The turbo used on a Glanza is a CT9 by KKK i believe you should be able to pick a half decent one up for around £100-£200 and it would be ample for the endura engine, they are good for around 1.3 bar but 1 bar is a good reliable area to run them at even better if its been ported.

I sold the car over a year ago now so dont have any pics unfortunately but it was running an RX7 Top mount which to be honest is no bigger than a standard S2 RST item, run a double capacity S2 and you should be fine i never had any problems with charge temps.

The car ran electronic fuel injection and the ignition was taken care of by a rotor arm and coil like most japanese cars. You should be able to sort the injection and ignition out for fairly cheap but you will need aftermarket management for it which you can pick up 2nd hand if you shop hard enough.

IceCage

I saw they use CT9 up to 2.5l , I still doubt it will go well with 1.3l.

I already bought GT1544 , as I saw they use it up to 2.3l too (I doubt it works well as the peak revs must be choked).
if my engine will stay under 100 bhp (which will without different cam) it will be very good setup. Except backpressure - but I have some ideas how to manage it.

I found that Garret says that GT1544 does only 13 PSI. That's very safe then. I will test it. I have electric industrial compressor at garage so I we can feed it and measure lb/min vs turbo revs vs pressure and temp etc. drops, backpressure, intercooler.

I found Microsquirt on ebay for 325 GBP , which I conside as very fair deal,
and as well I found these germans selling they own remake of MS with box http://www.k-data.org/kdfi-v1-3-with-enclosure.html for like 400 EUR.
but they don't have experience with standard ford engines, they have tested maps and setup just for RS2000 Cosworth.
Which would be fun in Ka to drive, but not so big fun to install.
Back to ground.
Do you have any tips for 2nd hand car parts sale? Some reliable server (ebay fails on MS, I found just new ones there). I'd hope to get MS for 250 or less...

I made brainstorming session with my old man last week and he suggested to put small intercooler (with rule shorter pipes: better system) only somewhere on top of engine block (on right side, over battery, but its good to move battery rack close to the engine and airbox with IC put almost to sidewall).
We will cut hole in bonnet to get air to IC and I have some idea to put wide aluminium air hose http://www.growshop.cz/gallery/grows...lex-260box.jpg on on cone of filter to get only colder air from outside sucked. If the battery will be moved, it's easy to make nice suck-port on grill).
Only question is filter. I saw pretty clear test about filter pressure drops and filter effectivity here http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm and I am quite not sure if I want cotton or foam filter. They remove like half particles compared to paper/fibre... and the pressure difference is like 0.015 psi !!! only. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest2.htm
Sounds like all sports filters are bullshit (for low flow system like 1.3l)

Jono 2173

Will do mate,still bolted to engine on stand,when I get a minute will unbolt and weigh etc.Uses standard injectors +all you need is uprated power boost valve and silicon pipe etc to pipe into engine.I ran an intercooler on mine but doesn't really need it as only low boost.

Jono 2173

Meant to say its on eBay (Ford ka Turbo conversion) will get more pictures taken at the weekend.

IceCage

I can't find it on ebay mate.
What about the chip and AFR? What I read about Van Aaken it was crappy ECU patch, ppl claim it runned lean on hi revs and practicaly that is not good at all.
Same thing to injections, 105cc on 4 psi may get overloaded (over 80% cycle) and that is way to hell.
I calculated that 14 psi needs almost 250cc's to be save anyway (AFR 11-12)

Have you tested it on rolling road? do you have any usable bhp/TQ records?

Jono 2173

Yeh its on eBay mate +standard injectors will be just fine,ran mine at 9osi,gave a nice responsive engine on standard compression with no fueling issues,if anything it ran rich at top end.Using bigger injectors than necessary will give you bore wash,which ain't good,seen plenty of engines suffer this due to to much fuel.

IceCage

not with aftermarket ECU. But for time being, as ppl in my job often say, it can go well with Van Aaken things.

alexno1dj

I wonder if this could be made to fit a 1.7 puma engine? any ideas?

IceCage

Turbo: yes, but it may choke engine in high rev band: like 5-6k , T2/T3 must be better.
Chip: no
Mainfold: I doubt it.

IceCage

There is one more about your post on ebay:

It's def. not 100 bhp, more like 75-80 bhp, which has been confirmed by rolling road tests on 60 bhp endura-e. There is even no IC.
Questions about compactibility: which engine version do you have? 50/60/70 bhp one?
Which air filter is supplied?
No dump valve?

Why exactly do you think that fuel pressure valve needs replacement?
I read that turbo in fact reduces pressure valve needs, as pressure difference btw fuel rail and open bore is greater (mind that gass is evacuated with higher pressure as well) then it was without turbo.
As long as timing of fuel injectior is well synchronized with valve cycle (so it sprays only if valves are opened, not closed). Which goes back to the chip
What type of chip is it? Have you seen the maps? Is there any chance to reprogram it (adjust it)?
I read that Van Aaken actualy installed the turbo and chips in their garage or with use of partners, so I bet they did some test and tunig to fit to exactly one car only. So dropping the kit elsewhere may be an issue, we may get knocking etc. Maybe it can be treated by ECU reset and few self-adjustment runs, but I doubt it.
No dump valve?

So to sum: old GT15 turbo is like 100 GBP(brand new costed me 196 GBP), chip may be priceless, mainfold can be done for 150 GBP on Ka (I saw D.Y.I one for 300 USD, but I can have snail-type welded by pro guy here, I can have it done for 75 GBP, but it will take time and care and dozen of calls to get it), if it's used few years it may be priceless too (burned and crispy) and air filter is priceless (65 GBP new Green cone with heatshield and ducts, sale off)
Oil feed lines may have some value.

Honestly I'd give you 200-250 GBP for this I bet well used kit. It really doesn't matter how much you paid for it.

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

Van aaken kit's are well know for blowing up engines!

IceCage

every turbo bolted without blow-off and knocking senzor may blow your engine There is certain set of situations where you have unwanted boost and/or too much air in mixture, thus getting knocks...
Btw blowoff under 14.7 psi will not be best working thing, I tested one and spring had like 3 psi tolerance on 14.7 psi (thus going even to 17 psi) And it wasn't cheap one. GT15 won't go over 13 psi but it valve may get open on 6-7 psi i/o 9 already... sucking feature.

But skilled technician can do adjustments, put in precise valve and get rid of knocking by chip adjustment and it's ok.
I always wondered which chip Van Aaken used to make their turbo working. I can live with idea of MS2 piggibacked and working with stock ECU, so "chip" must be secondary ECU as well. And I bet programmable one.

Jono 2173

Iv just posted more photos of Turbo Conversion on ebay for anyone who's interested.Thankyou.

olliep

Why are you even bothering turbocharging a 1.3?!?!?!

Camel Fiddler

Why not a ERST or FRST set up? Least then it'll probably have no issues fitting (as the Sport Ka is a 1.6), should be picked up fairly cheap and would make a good base to start building it up. Be a better bet than the 1.3

For places to buy in north east, there's Ford Parts just off A184 or A185 at Dunston.

IceCage

I am not bothered. This baby runs like devil, but in certain situation there is just a little missing to make it perfect. So with turbo it will be super-ok Ka-r.

Any luck with conversion kit sale?
I got my turbo at home, I like it, even it's chinese. I bet it can go at least 50k km. We just figured how to add 5th injector (with switch) for Performance modes, so never running too lean on turbo. Otherwise it's not so needed.
We also tought about using non-linear 5th injector setup on wire plus guided by pressure sensor on compressor side of turbo, so it will add more fuel just close to WOT and with serious boost, which should also work Ok-ish for 70-90 bhp. It can be tuned with AFR sensor so we will have nice compromise setup, not worse then runing way more expensive MS2 upgrades. If 20 bhp is all I want, and that is. For street fun it's enough, I found on street. We have narrow streets and narrow hill roads around, in CZ. Gokart handling is much more value then any power, as I found racing big X5s or A4s up there. Even 450 bhp 2010 subaru got beated due size and handling on my favourite up/down hill runs. power doesn't matter. But size and grip does.

There is no need for MS2 or similar solution, and I can still keep my cat and lambdas where they are. Fuel can be added close to the vents, to use well negative pressure and so we can skip fuel pressure adjustments.

Hobomassiv

They are massively different. I have a Sport as well as my RST Ka and have owned an endura Ka.

16vzetec

I love the ka engine. they are so simple to work on and reliable. its just a shame they dont put out enough bhp. mpg is awsome tho standard.
I knew of a ka turbo near me with 150bhp aparently! Think conversion cost £4500 from memory

Mk4 Rick

They are lying there strong as fuck .My 2.0 blacktop gets ragged everywhere