ShayneG

Hi everyone, I'm praying someone can help as this couldn't have happend at a worse time for me. I've just been made redundant and need my car to get to and from interviews and don't have acres of cash to pay Ford £90 per hour.

The story starts when I needed to change the passenger side headlight bulb and I couldn't get to it so I removed the battery. I put the battery cover on top of the engine near the spark plugs but forgot to put it back on after fitting the bulb. I closed the bonnet down and drove to the petrol station. Half way there the car started running lumpy and then engine managment light came on. I got home and saw what I had done .

Now . . . I can't see any damage where the battery cover has broke a pipe or wire etc. Also this could be purely coincidental!

I took it to ford who diagnosed an ODB error code P0352 and wanted £90 an hour to diagnose the issue further. So far after reading different posts on the internet I have replaced the coil pack, Spark plugs (NGK) and spark plug leads.

The gap on the plugs is 0.90mm (not sure if this is correct).

so far I have removed the Spark plugs after leaving the engine running and noticed that (standing at the front of the car facing the engine bay) spark plug 1 has black carbon deposits covering the surface, plug 2 and 3 are clean and look brand new, plug 4 is the same as plug 1. Plug 2 and 3 look as if they've just come out the box and would explain why it's only running on 2 cylinders.

I've checked the wiring from the coil pack back to the multiplug to the side of the shock obsorber and it looks good with no corrosion etc. I've also cleaned up all of the pins on the multi plug. I have a feeling this is a wiring issue from the research I've done but I don't know where to start.

The fuel feed to and from the injector rail also looks good and I can't see any damages.

Any ideas ??

GVK.

P0352 Ignition Coil B Primary/Secondary Circuit Malfunction

Read more at: http://www.obd-codes.com/p0352
Copyright © OBD-Codes.com


Need to get an LED or low power bulb and check that the coil pack (the coil pack is in 2 pairs basically, you get an A & B primary and secondary circuit) is being switched by the ECU

Centre terminal of coil connector is live with ignition, put the LED/bulb from centre to one the outer terminals, crank engine with connector disconnected, the LED should flash, then do the same to the other side.

Must stress you need to use a low power bulb or an LED for this...

If you have no joy on one side, need to check the wire right back to the ECU really, but could be an actual ECU internal coil driver fault.

Hope that makes sense.

ShayneG

So is a 1.5v LED o.k? Do I need to disconnect the 3 ping plug from the coil pack and test that plug using the centre pin as the plus wire with the 2 outers as negatives ?

GVK.

Yes, exactly that.. should be fine..

All the PCM/ECU does in this circuit, is ground the outer connections to fire the coil at the required time.

ShayneG

Interesting! I'll give this a go today. Thanks for your help so far

ShayneG

Spent several hours on this today and even more confused now.
I removed the 3 ping plug from the coil pack and with the ignition turned on I put my volt meter on the middle pin and then the negative side to the outer green/black wire and get a reading of 11.2V.

I then move the negative probe to the orange/black wire and only get 3.7MV.
When I crank the engine over the voltage reduces to 7-8V on the green/black wire and 47MV on the orange/black wire.

This leads me to think there is a fault with the orange/black wire or if this wire goes back to the ecu then a fault with the ECU.

I've traced this wire to as far as where it goes through the bay to the interior but then it's mission impossible due to the amount of sound deadening inside the car. I tried cutting the stuff away and pulling the hell out of it but it's going to take hours to try and remove it.

I may by one of those wire tracing probes off ebay and see if it's quicker to trace it ?

Any thoughts would be most appreciated

GVK.

Probably find your meter is not 'quick' enough reacting to measure the pulse, this is why it needs to be checked with a bulb/led.

As I took time to explain.

Obviously an Ocilloscope would be ideal, but an LED is just as good..

ShayneG

I thought I had an LED but couldn't find it. I'll pop to Maplins this morning and will let you know later on today what I find.

Shayne

mattxr3i

an outside idea and probably way off but the Focus, if it is getting too hot runs on 2 cylinders to try and keep the engine cool enough not to damage the headgasket. The temp sensor is in the head near the spark plugs on the 1.8, if it's in the same place on the 1.6 you may be confusing the ECU with some squished wires..... The dash temp gauge is taken from near the thermostat so wouldn't show this issue.

Like I said, could be way off but worth a try

ShayneG

Thanks, I did see those 2 wires near the plugs but they look good. The engine runs on 2 straight from a cold start as well which leads me to think it's either wiring or PCM. I just hope I can repair the PCM if it is that. I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron but it's knowing which part it will be and where you get it from.

I'm going to do the LED test first thing on the coil plug and see where we are.
Does anyone know which pin on the ECU is for the orange/black wire that leads to the coilpack plug

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

You will blow a 1.5 V bulb! It's the output of the bulb that matters, use the wrong one and you can end up damaging the drivers in the ECU, there are special 'NOID' lights designed for just this purpose.

Matt, you are correct re the overheating strategy, 1600 is between the plugs and 1800 is on the right hand end of the head, it is used for the temperature gauge as well, it is worth checking though, as you say.

Don't assume this is caused by the cover, it may well be removing the battery has caused it, bad PCM's have been known to cause this issue before.

Martin

ShayneG

Cheers Martin, I'm starting to think the battery cover was a red herring. So this 2 pin plug by the spark plugs i'm assuming this would only cause it to run on 2 once the engine got to a certan temp, not from cold ?

I have a normal 12v test probe for electrical circuits on the car, would that be o.k for testing the coil plug?

GVK.

Of course there are 'noid' lights, which is what I would use, but most DIY people don't have one in their tool box..

I misread the 1.5v LED part.. [red face]

With there being a DTC code relative to coil primary circuit, this needs checking out with this simple test.
PCM Pins 58/59 for the coil.

ShayneG

O.K I picked up a 12v 0.60MA LED from maplins today and tested the 3 pin plug whilst cranking the engine. The LED flashed on and off from both outer negative pins when tested in turn. I could just about see the LED flashing on / off quickly but as soon as cash allows i'll be buying a noid set to keep in the toolbox

So it looks like the PCM and the coil driver are good, any ideas as to what I could try next?

mattxr3i

Sounds silly but have you tried re-setting the ecu?

Usually a KAM "Keep Alive Memory" fuse that you can remove

ShayneG

I haven't tried resetting the ECU, I'll have a google to see how it's done

GVK.

I don't understand why/how you have a coil primary circuit DTC but both sides of the coil are being switched.

Resetting the ECU will only clear any learned values for idling, fuel trims/adaptions etc.

B19 JUB

likewise.would of thought that if 2 cylinders aren't firing then it must be either wiring from ecu or the coil driver inside the ecu itself.nothing else at all it could be esp when coil,leads and plugs have been replaced.very odd

mattxr3i

I remember on the silver top zetecs you used to have to smear silicone grease on the ceramic part of the plug to stop arcing, could be the same but doubtful.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/s...egoryId_255216

I use the above to check that a spark is occurring but a little pricey at 12 quid

GVK.

Yeah, was a problem on the silver tops, more to make sure the lead pushed down far enough onto the plugs.

Can't ignore the fault code though... primary circuit fault rather than a misfire on a specific cylinder.

Be interested to know if that fault code is still there..

ShayneG

Intrestingly the engine management light has gone off since I had the battery off for a short while. I don't have a code reader but i'd like to know what it shows up now. My only other thoughts is the wiring to the injectors or maybe the new coil pack is dodgy? I can start the engine and run it but it sounds a bit rough and you can tell it's running on 2 due to the lack of power and the NGK plugs that are in plug holes 2 & 3 are like new and you can see they haven't been sparked at all. Plugs 1 and 4 are charcoal black which I think indicates too much fuel ?

ShayneG

I've just ordered these so hopefully I can do some better testing:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3213747943...84.m1439.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1212906597...84.m1439.l2649

I think they'll be handy items to hold on to as well

Can anyone recommend a half decent code reader ?

GVK.

Might need a couple of start/run cycles to log a fault then the light will come back on.

What year is the car, if post 2001 any EOBD reader should be ok

See http://www.gendan.co.uk

http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_GDEOBD.html

If pre-2001 vehicle, may not have support for.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Just because it lights does not necessarily mean it's ok.

That LED consumes little energy, the opposite to the coil, therefore it does not mean the PCM is functioning correctly.

It is worth eliminating the pack though.

The ECU data would have been cleared when you disconnected the battery.

Martin

GVK.

When I have seen these fail and checked with a 'noid' light, usually you have no output at all from it, on the one side of the coil harness.

ShayneG

It's strange as the coil pack is new however I have heard stories of 3rd party ones not being as good as the ford ones. Do I really need to go and spent £140 with Ford for a genuine or does anyone know of a cheaper brand thats had decent success ?. Either way I'll wait till the noid light comes and I can do some more testing. I was also going to take the lid off the ECU to see if I can see anything burnt out however I can't work out how to remove it from the car as the plugs look like they have a metal bracket round them with a rivett or security screw holding it in place. I can't even get enough slack on the wires to slide the ECU down out of the black plastic bracket?

Any ideas ?

GVK.

To remove the PCM you need to remove the lower half of the dash under the coulumn, and the side trim on drivers side of dash, GEM module (the module with the coloured connectors) then the bracket around the PCM, once you can slide the PCM down, there is a security nut that has to be drilled/ground off..they don't make it easy!

Worth asking where you bought the coil pack from if you can try another.

As said though, the fault code with primary circuit which you had originally can not be ignored.

j6kyt

strangely enough i had a ka come in and it was missing so i replaced the coil (customer supplied) which was brand new and it still missed on the same cylinder. which had me scratching my head a bit, after a few other tests i ordered a coil from my supplier and it fixed it. it was just a bit strange to me to have 2 duff coils especially when one was new.

JFB Tech

It's pretty well known that there are dodgy after market coils available. Try to get a Visteon one, they make the original Ford ones and don't seem to have the fail from new issues of the others and don't have the price tag of the Ford one.

ShayneG

Did a bit more today, The adaptors turned up that you put between the spark plugs and the HT lead and light when your cranking the engine over. I confirmed 2+3 are definetly getting no power. I traced both outer negative wires on the coil pack plug back to the ECU and did a continuity test on them. Both come back fine so it's either ECU or coil pack I'm guessing.

I removed the ECU and god Ford really don't want you to remove this!! that security nut was a bugger to get off! Once I removed the ECU i took the lid off and everything looks mint inside. I can't see any burnt chips or resistors etc. I traced both coil pack pins on the ECU back to where they are soldered on the board and did a continuity test and both are fine. It could still be a component on the ECU that has failed but not blown which makes it difficult to troubleshoot.

Does anyone know which resistors and other components relate to the coil circuit on the board ?

There's loads of ECU repair places but they want a minimum of £160 which winds me up when it's such a common fault and probably a £0.55p resistor or something similiar that's a 10 minute solder job.

Last resort, I can pick up a complete ECU kit for £60 with door locks, boot lock, ignition barell and central locking ECU but how much hassle is it fitting all the locks ?

Cheers
Shayne

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

All you need (if it was determined to be the cause) is the ECU, you would have to pair your key(s) to it.

Martin

ShayneG

So if It's the ECU and I change it i could take the transponder chip out of the new key and put it in mine. I though the VDO and the central locking ECU was all coded as well that's why you see so many full kits for sale on the likes of ebay ?

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Yes you could do that, so far as I am aware you can just change the one, I don't think the GEM is tied.

Martin

GVK.

No, the GEM is not coded to the car's PCM, all that needs doing if the GEM is changed (providing it has same s/w as original) is learn the remote locking fob to it.

PATS is contained in the PCM on these, the GEM controls perimeter alarm, locking functions, ajar switches, timers for HRW, stuff like that..

ShayneG

o.k so as long as I leave the GEM alone and just swop the ECU over and use the transponder chip from the key that come with the new ECU I should be o.k and wont need to code or pair anything ?

I think I've pretty much pinned this down to ECU or coil and I've found an ecu for £59 and the seller is going to throw in a genuine ford coil as well for free so I'm hoping that will be the end of it

GVK.

In theory yep, should do the trick.

If the immobiliser is not paired, it will not crank over and the PATS led will flash rapidly.

ShayneG

where is the PATS led? Is the imboliser in the ECU or the GEM ?

GVK.

At no point have we known what year Focus you have, so guessing it's a mk1?

Immobiliser is in ECU (PCM) but on mk2s it's part of instrument cluster too.

PATS LED is near clock on mk1 IIRC?

ShayneG

It's a Focus Elle Jan 2003 so I'm assuming that's Mark 1 ?

GVK.

Yeah, mk1 facelift.

Should be a small red light near the clock.