Sooty999

Hi everyone. I'm at the point of breaking with this car and please can someone try and help. Many thanks.

Purchased a 2002 1.8 TDCi Focus Estate 6 months back for a top price of £1950.

It was one owner and 61,000 miles. After 2 months the glow plug light kept flashing under load. I took it to a garage and they tested everything. Eventually found lack of pressure in the fuel pump. So that was replaced a long with the belt. The crank sensor was also replaced as the fault code was coming up. This cost us £1000.
The car has trouble starting in the morning as described above... Seems plenty of juice in the battery but car seems to shake like mad. Once started and run for a little it then starts ok. There does however seem to be a little 'screech' sound when the engine finally starts.
It wouldn't start at all one morning so off to another garage. Injectors were taken out and tested... 3 were goosed so we bought 4 and had them replaced costing today £916. (We were in too much to sell a non starting 52 plate Focus!)
Guess what... Still won't start until the 3rd time.

The EGR is fine and the filter has been changed.

Now the glow plug light comes on but goes off almost straight away but after testing (and replacing) the glow plugs they are being heated for the required time.

We are now about £4200 into a 52 plate Focus and it still won't start. We have no money and can't borrow any more.

Please can someone help?

Cheers Jake.

Fordmad!

Set fire to it and cut your losses? Id of got shot of it before i replaced the pump tbh

PeterRST

iTrader: (1)

I had the same problem on a customer's car.

Turned out the starter motor was dodgy and pulling too much currency, therefore not leaving enough electricity for the injection system to work and fire the injectors.

Put on a new starter motor and battery and see how it goes...

PeterRST

iTrader: (1)

See this:
http://www.picoauto.com/tutorials/fo...-starting.html

Sooty999

Fantastic constructive reply there.

After buying a family car (we have 2 kids) we saved up the £1950 and bought this. When the garage said it was the pump costing £1000 to replace, your suggesting we sell a 52plate Focus in need of a fuel pump for what? £500? And then do what? Put another grand into a £1500 car for that to go wrong?

Please understand our situation before replying.

Many thanks.

Sooty999

Many thanks for that. I think that is next.

Maybe feb/March.

Sooty999

Amazing reply. Many thanks.

PeterRST

iTrader: (1)

Starter motors are peanuts on ebay (about 70 pounds IIRC) and are a doddle to fit on the 1.8 Diesel. Just jack the front of the car up and secure it (or put it on a ramp), remove plastic undertray and presto - you've got access. Should only be 3 bolts and a few cables.

Don't forget to disconnect the battery beforehand, though.

Also, reading your initial post again, that "screech" sound could be your starter motor failing to disengage smoothly. Also a hint that it might not be the freshest unit anymore...

Sooty999

Thank you.

Is there a way of testing the motor before we buy a new one?

I know £90 isn't a great deal but on top of the £916 this morning, the kids will be getting a satsuma this Christmas.

Again, many thanks.

PeterRST

iTrader: (1)

Not really, unless you hook it up to an oscilloscope like the guy in that link I posted did.

The one on my customers car sounded and looked perfectly healthy, too. Only in direct comparison would you notice that the new one was cranking a bit more "freely" and faster.

Sooty999

Many thanks.

Fordmad!

Get hold of a place that rebuilds starters, i did it with mine paid £30 and gave in my old one for a freshly rebuild one save £70 on buying a new one

chris cdti

You may find once he starter is removed its logged with dmf deposits.

Sooty999

DMF being duel Mass Flywheel?

Oh god, hope that's ok!!!

GVK.

Sorry to say but this does sound DMF/starter motor related.

When starting/switching off the car, press foot lightly on pedal and see if can feel any vibrations through the pedal. When accelerating is the car smooth or are there any vibrations coming through the car? If so it can point to DMF problems.

PeterRST

iTrader: (1)

Typically though, with DMF failure the car will initially start and then die after one or two seconds.

GVK.

Regarding Chris' earlier post if the starter has metallic swarf in it, it may be because of a failing DMF.

Glo-plug light on these serves as an engine management light too, when it was flashing before it would have been because of the fuel pressure issue.

Sooty999

Cheers guys. Glow plug light came on and car went into limp mode when under load, but only for the first 5 mins of driving. Fuel pump changed and limp mode problem solved.

The starting issue has got worse since we have had it. Maybe as weather getting colder or just it getting worse.
Once the car is warm it starts perfect, just like it should.

Today I've just driven 100 miles (about 80 on motorway) and it drove perfect. No juddering, vibrations etc... Even town driving through the gears, all smooth, no noise etc.

The car pulls really well and zero smoke when put foot down. Used less than 1/4 tank and done 140ish miles since garage.

It's now stood till morning so I shall post up how it starts. Usually I put keys in, turn till lights come on then adjust mirrors, seatbelt on, seat position etc, and then crank over. Seems lots of power in battery (can have music on while hoovering/washing etc) and no battery drain. Plus 100 odd miles today should provide a good charge.

But typically I turn it over and the car wants to go but shudders like mad and don't sound good and then fires. Drive off and it runs perfect from the moment the engine is on. Perfect idle also.
Turn ignition off and it's twice as easy to start. Turn it off again and it's almost perfect. Start again and it's fine.

So....

New crank sensor
New fuel pump
New fuel filter
4 new injectors
EGR cleaned and checked
Turbo vanes cleaned and checked
All lines blown through (paid for it to be terracleaned)
New belt

Cheers for all your help in this matter.

I have read a few posts about fuses and relays being missing.... But surely that couldn't be the case.

Cheers again.

chris cdti

When the car finally starts does it sort of bang into life?

Sooty999

No, it just fires up. Could I post a video on here of it?
Or maybe a link to the video.

No banging or popping... Just a tiny what can only be described as a screech before coming into life. Pretty similar to a loose belt but more juddery and for only about half a second. ( that sounds really strange but not sure how else to describe it!)

GVK.

As previous posts, if battery is being dragged down by starter, it may not be cranking quick enough for the ECU to allow the injectors/pump etc to operate. (they have a minimum cranking speed, unless this is reached the car won't run)

Screech could just be the auxilary belt because of the 'rough' cranking/shaking.

It's always the first start of the day when the oil is stone cold etc when the battery/starter gets the most load against it.

Sooty999

I must say, I'm very impressed about how friendly and constructive the replies have been.

Most impressed.

Cheers all.

Sooty999

That is pretty much what it sounds like.

No other noise after starting. You can hear it every time, but it gets quieter the easier it is to start.

Sooty999

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-FOCUS...item565dc1511e

GVK.

Yep, I've heard the exact noise you describe.

Have replaced the auxilary belt tensioner on a few to stop the noise in the past.

The screech won't be affecting the starting, it's just an associated thing.

It's more battery/starter issue that's stopping it starting cleanly from cold, however, when the starter is replaced it's worth checking the old one for metallic swarf in case of impending doom from a failing DMF.

Sooty999

Not liking the sound of a failing DMF (£££££'s)

I cant understand! This car had 63,000 miles, Full history, serviced every year (some years only covering 2000 miles!)... that's why we paid £1950 for it. It was up at £2200.

To say that we are stressed/gutted/annoyed/skint! is an understatement!

GVK.

DMFs do fail on well serviced cars, on all makes unfortunately - not just Fords.

I've worked with Ford,Hyundai,VW & BMW and they all have DMF issues sadly. As do most other marques!

Modern diesels are great when running well, complete pain in the arse when they have problems.

It just needs checking if any swarf has got into the starter, not to say it has definitely failed.

chris cdti

Yeah ive done plenty at Vauxhall (DMF) on the 1900 and 2000 CDTi Vectra/Insignia/Astra

botters

iTrader: (2)

ive changed many a starter motor on a diesel for poor starting even when to the untrained ear they appear to be cranking over fine most people will only notice the difference in cranking speed when a new one is fitted

Sooty999

Morning all.... Hopefully this video will work!


Cheers.

Sooty999

I've just listened to it and the first time it's running if you listen about 2 seconds in you can hear a slight rattling sound but then it goes away.

Ps, apologies for the huffing and noises, I'm off work with broken ribs! Oouch!

ben_frst

as said previously get the starter reconned its usually about £30 with a year warranty. explain that you thing its drawing to much load while cranking and not engaging properly

Sooty999

That will be my next step, but why would it get better when the car has been run for a while? Surely if the starter is faulty and taking current from other items, it would do it when warm or cold?

Many thanks.

natehall

iTrader: (2)

When cold, everything is a lot tighter and harder to turn over.

Harder to turn over, means more work for the starter,

More work = more amps needed to turn it, less amps for everything else.

If the starter is worn, with the added work the power spike would be higher.

When warm - everything a lot looser and whilst it may seam ok, the warmth in theengine is disguising the fault.

Sooty999

Ok, cheers guys.

Replacing starter and see how I go.

Once again, thanks.

GVK.

As posted previously..

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

Does it bump start then run? That will prove the starter theory.

Sooty999

Not tried that. We live on a very flat road!!

Once car been driven it starts fine.

I now feel like I didn't have to spend £916 on 4 injectors as the problem is still identical to when it went in.

Fordmad!

Did the garage say it was the injectors? Id be going bacjk if they suggested it was and its still not right!

Sooty999

They sent them off to a company called Feather Diesel.

http://www.feather-diesel.co.uk/

Who tested all 4. 3 were goosed and they suggested doing all 4. They said I can have a copy of the test report.

There is no difference whatso ever, apart from I'm £916 worse off.