griffo69

iTrader: (1)

Evening all. Got a problem with my s2, I've fitted full p8 cosworth management and am stuck trying to get it started..

Now I've bought a new crank sensor and gapped it to 6 thou, also gapped the cam sensor to the same , I have no spark . Both relays on cossie loom are clicking as normal and the fuel pump primes when you turn the ignition live , but I have no fuel at the injectors

Any ideas

muz

Have you checked to see there is fuel getting to the rail itself?

I only say this as when I did mine I accidentally wired the pump back to front so the pump ran but was "blowing" instead of "sucking" of you get me.

The Youth.

iTrader: (1)

is the fuel pipes on the right way round? (feed and return), common fault that one!


Steve

studabear

Are the injectors pulsing?

Cossy Mike

iTrader: (4)

My money is on crank sensor or cam (phase sensor)

Mine turned on the button and purred lovely first time started

Cossy Mike

iTrader: (4)

What cam sensor are you using?

Is it just the same as the cosworth crank sensor? or is a zetec one?

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Have you checked the coil has power?

It seems there may be different issues, the CPS seems ok.

Martin

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

About time you got it sorted properly if you are that close. Is it ready to drive yet.

Cossy Mike

iTrader: (4)

If you mean mine Jano, sadly no. I'm working through the electrical faults first, then I'm stripping it to a shell for panels and paint.

Then I'll rebuild it using new, NOS, refurbed parts

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

I ment griffo, his expected here at some point soon.

griffo69

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for the late reply lads. I've plugged in noid lights for the injectors and 3 out of 4 are pulsing, for some reason no 2 won't light up . The cam sensor is a brand new cosworth one ( crank sensor ) and gapped to 6 thou as is the crank sensor. I've fitted the fuel pipes as advised so I'm assuming they're right and I've not got fuel at the rail either . I've not yet checked the voltage to the coil , what should it be ? 12v ?

@muz in what way do you mean wired the pump wrong ? So far I've plugged the loom terminals according to colour on the fuel pump ( black and yellow plugs ) and have joined the black / red wire off the cossie loom on to the black / red wire on the erst pump loom inside the car

Cheers

Cossy Mike

iTrader: (4)

If you have no fuel at the rail then your problem is not sensor related at all. Your pump should prime before it even tries to crank. When you install the Cosworth loom did you use the fuel relay from it as it is a different circuit to the escort loom which is in car under your fuse box.

If so you need to bypass the escort loom altogether. Use the black/red thickest wire off the Cosworth loom to trigger your fuel pump.

studabear

Idle valve and cylinder 2 wiring plugs mixed up? Just a thought as they are quite close to each other and the same sort of plugs.

griffo69

iTrader: (1)

I thought that to mate but I rechecked it all with the diagram etc and its correct

griffo69

iTrader: (1)

I can hear the fuel pump prime when I turn the key live . On the cosworth loom I have the 2 yellow relays and they both click when I turn the key, and I've wired it so I've spliced Into the erst black / red wire under the rear seat

Cossy Mike

iTrader: (4)

Sound like you've wired it ok, but you should still have fuel at the rail at this point behind the injectors

VEEDUBBED

Have you checked to see if any fuel exit the injectors, maybe place them in a Plastic container and crank the Engine over, see if any fuel makes it out.
12v At the coil is correct. 3 injectors firing but not number 2..? Check the small terminals on the ecu's hairbrush, maybe a damaged wire within the loom. Try checking the injector output directly off the ecu by piggy backing the 2 outputs from the ecu, that way you can eliminate the harness to injector wiring.
No fuel At the rail, blocked fuel filter, kinked/collapsed fuel feed pipe? Bridge the fuel pump relč and run the pump constantly and see if the pump actually sucks up anything from the tank.

jonfoc

Get it to Jano mate. I had all sorts of issues with mine years ago. 20 minutes of him tinkering and it was purring.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Have you got the pipes on the rail the correct way? As to the injector check that one has a supply.

Martin

muz

On your pump you'll have a positive and a negative. If you wire it back to front with the live feed on earth, and vise-versa the pump will still prime, and run, but it will be pushing air into the tank, rather than pulling fuel from the tank as it will run backwards. Thought it would be worth checking as you say you have no fuel at the rail.

Cossy Mike

iTrader: (4)

The black and red cable from the cossy loom goes direct to the pump, you bypass the escort loom completely.

If you 'turn' (bloody iphone)the ignition on still wired to the escort loom even without cossy ecu plugged in the pump will prime as on escort it has its own circuit

muz

Yeah, I missed the post where he said he did a straight splice into the oringal pump wiring. A lot of people suggest completely replacing the fuel pump wiring from the ECU back inc the earth so I wasn't sure if he'd had the original wiring out or played with it and over looked it as I had.

muz

With regards to the injector wiring, I'd check your continuity with a multimeter and be running through this quick checklist to make sure your loom is all working as it should.

Checklist
Reverse CPS wires
All gaps set to .15mm
Spark gaps to 0.75/8
TDC teeth

1) Ensure ignition is OFF.
2) Remove rear of ecu plug cover and insert plug back into ecu.
3) Turn ignition back on (do not start engine)
4) MAIN POWER CHECK: Check for DC voltage of at least 11.5V between ecu pins 19 and 20.
5) REFERENCE CHECK: Check for DC voltage of around 4.8 to 5.2V between pins 11 and 30.
6) MAP SENSOR CHECK: Check for DC voltage of approx 1.8 to 2.5V between pins 11 and 15.
7) THROTTLE CLOSED:
4x4: Check for DC voltage less than 0.5V between pins 11 and 17.
2WD: Check for DC voltage greater than 4.5V between pins 11 and 17.
8) THROTTLE FULLY OPEN:
4x4: Check for DC voltage greater than 4.5V between pins 11 and 17.
2WD: check for DC voltage less than 0.5V between pins 11 and 17.
9) Turn ignition off, unplug ecu, and turn ignition back on (don’t forget immobilizer if fitted)
10) CRANK SENSOR: Check resistance between pins 3 and 4 between 300 and 1200 ohms.
11) CRANK SENSOR: Check AC voltage on pins 3 and 4 while cranking engine - should be at least 2V.
11) PHASE SENSOR: Check resistance between pins 5 and 23 between 300 and 1200 ohms.
12) PHASE SENSOR: Check AC voltage on pins 5 and 23 while cranking engine - should be at least 1.5 - 2V.
12) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 18 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
13) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 35 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
14) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 33 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
15) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 32 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
NOTE: INJECTOR TESTS MAY NEED MAIN RELAY ENERGISED ON L1 and L6 ecus (link pins 1 and 10 first)
16) IGNITION TRIGGER: Read voltage between pins 24 and 25, should be at least 4.5V.
17) IGNITION TEST: BEWARE DANGEROUS VOLTAGES ON PLUG/COIL LEADS.
Quickly link pins 24 and 25 on and off this will FIRE the ignition coil. Rotate dizzy by moving car in gear to point rotor arm at one plug lead and remove spark plug (earthing it on chassis or engine) to see spark. Try for each plug in turn. Or remove king lead at dizzy and place end within 1 centimetre of earth to see a big spark.
18) Place a temporary wire link from pin 1 to pin 10 (energises ecu power relay) - you should hear a click.
19) Quickly link pins 19 to 28 to test fuel pump runs.
20) COOLANT TEMP: Check resistance pins 29 and 11 for 800 ohms to 5000 ohms (depends on temp)
21) CHARGE TEMP: Check resistance pins 31 and 11 for 800 ohms to 5000 ohms (depends on temp)

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

If you have number 2 injector not working that's the first issue to find and solve before doing anything else. Is this dolman old loom as a couple of his plugs were changed. It's possible they are plugged in wrong.

Connect a meter to the cps and cam sensor check that they are picking up a signal.

griffo69

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for the late reply lads...

Yea jano it's his old loom

Right, racking my brains with this car now. New coil pack, genuine ignition amps and new fuel pump fitted... I now have loads of fuel at the pressure valve on the fuel rail, 3 of the injectors are pulsing and can smell fuel in the cylinders when I remove the spark plug ( I haven't removed the injectors yet to see ) . All 4 spark testers light up when cranking the engine over but it still won't start. I've removed a spark plug and grounded it to the head but no spark at all so why would the testers light up but get no spark at all ?

homer j

iTrader: (1)

Is it possible that the plug gaps are too large or maybe the HT leads don't seat on the plugs properly but do with the ignition tester?

griffo69

iTrader: (1)

I will recheck the plug gaps, they're new plugs so hopefully should be ok. I'm proper confused with this now

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Whereabouts on the head are you grounding them?

Martin